The truth about immigration
Discussion
porridge said:
Parents letting them play video games... really? I'm pretty sure kids in private schools let their kids play video games too!
Are you aware that outside your fantasy world, already struggling schools in poor areas are bursting to the seams? Are you aware that we are spending money that could be spent on language teachers is instead diverted to salaries for assistants who speak the native languages of kids who do not speak English on joining school?
And can you also advise how many in Netherlands speak a language other than English & Dutch, and can you explain why it is only a mere 50%, as frankly that is shocking if you are saying half their population cannot speak the international language of business.
We need immigrants, we do not need uncontrolled immigration.
My point re video games was the parents aren't making them do their homework first/at all. Are you aware that outside your fantasy world, already struggling schools in poor areas are bursting to the seams? Are you aware that we are spending money that could be spent on language teachers is instead diverted to salaries for assistants who speak the native languages of kids who do not speak English on joining school?
And can you also advise how many in Netherlands speak a language other than English & Dutch, and can you explain why it is only a mere 50%, as frankly that is shocking if you are saying half their population cannot speak the international language of business.
We need immigrants, we do not need uncontrolled immigration.
Full schools, many are being closed due to shortsighted cut backs.
I said it was 50% OR MORE ......which is a damn sight better than England's paltry 3%
menousername said:
So poor British citizens should accept poor paying jobs that do not cover the essentials of full time family living and planning in the UK? And their attitude and motivation stinks?
How dare they want a living wage that provides security for them, their families and their future, feckless scroungers, lets replace them with lower paid more desparate immigrants who will do it for as long as they need to, living 10+ in a house. Housing is a luxury not a right, right? Feck off UK poor - go be homeless somewhere where I cannot see you, right?
This is great when it is "them" - the feckless "them" who is somehow not you. What happens when its YOU and YOUR job...YOUR family, same logic applies?
Simple economics - not enough jobs, not enough school places, not enough money, NHS on the brink of bankruptcy, breaking under the increased strain. Increased taxes, more cuts, more job losses. Race to the bottom. What happens when this comes home to roost... for YOU?
Other poeple manage to love fine of those wages, plus we were paying way above minimum. Of course, we could have paid more, but we would have then been running that unit at a loss, so we could have simply moved the jobs overseas. Why should companies have to hire rubbish people when better are available? Should we have taken the jobs overseas, along with our taxes? That would be very positive for the UK economy!How dare they want a living wage that provides security for them, their families and their future, feckless scroungers, lets replace them with lower paid more desparate immigrants who will do it for as long as they need to, living 10+ in a house. Housing is a luxury not a right, right? Feck off UK poor - go be homeless somewhere where I cannot see you, right?
This is great when it is "them" - the feckless "them" who is somehow not you. What happens when its YOU and YOUR job...YOUR family, same logic applies?
Simple economics - not enough jobs, not enough school places, not enough money, NHS on the brink of bankruptcy, breaking under the increased strain. Increased taxes, more cuts, more job losses. Race to the bottom. What happens when this comes home to roost... for YOU?
Perhaps people here need to raise their game so they do compete becuase otherwise why should companies hire them or indeed operate here in the UK?
And when it comes home to roost? I assume you know my exact life circumstances and experiances? No? really? Then your comment is pointless on that one level.
Mrr T said:
Because you cannot control the EU part unless you leave the EU. I personally believe we should leave the EU but recognise it will take several years to do so. Even if we leave I feel that it would be better to allow freedom of movement so would not expect any changes.
This is the bit thats concerning, whilst we are faffing around and arguing in Europe the rest of the world thinks we are weak and cannot make decisions. I have done a lot of business with China and the speed they make decisions is unbelievable, months not years like us!We need to leave the EU right now, and immediately start negotiating our own trade deals with whoever we so wish globally. Other EU nations would follow suit very quickly. Including the flow of migrants from wherever we want to find the best candidates to come from.
My colleagues in Germany, France, Holland all feel exactly the same. We all want to trade with each other but don't need to be ruled by a federal state. It will not be allowed to happen.
By allowing the free flow of business and entrepreneurs to create wealth we can create new jobs and prosperity for the indigenous people, if you allow bureaucrats and politicians to quash that dream they will go elsewhere and we will all be left in the sh!t. Please listen to the people that really do know what they are talking about.
*disclaimer, this rant covers several PH threads.
Mrr T said:
So you listen and believe Cameron. You really do have troubles.
Cameron has made it much harder for anyone outside the UK to come here. There is no 1 in 1 out policy. It simple would not work since the number coming here from the EU is impossible to measure.
All evidence shows we are cutting non-EU immigration because of EU immigration/reduced emigration. I am more than happy to listen to you, providing you back it up with facts and figures?Cameron has made it much harder for anyone outside the UK to come here. There is no 1 in 1 out policy. It simple would not work since the number coming here from the EU is impossible to measure.
Official Estimated Immigration
It maybe 'impossible' to measure the exacts, but we have a benchmark that is the ONS quarterly figures, so we do not need to count them exact as long as we are consistent compare like for like- and these say:
1) non-EU is decreasing
2) EU level remains the same statistically
3) Emigration is at its lowest since 2001
And this is by a pro-government body.
Home Office Settlement figures
The home office records the number of settlements i.e. people given indefinite leave to stay in the UK (obviously non EU). Can you guess what is happening to this number since Cameron came into power? It has peaked in 2010 and is now dropping.
Show me some facts and figures please?
Edited by porridge on Wednesday 15th January 14:27
Funkycoldribena said:
Pappa Lurve said:
Other poeple manage to love fine of those wages, plus we were paying way above minimum.
Be honest-how much were you actually paying?einsign said:
This is the bit thats concerning, whilst we are faffing around and arguing in Europe the rest of the world thinks we are weak and cannot make decisions. I have done a lot of business with China and the speed they make decisions is unbelievable, months not years like us!
We need to leave the EU right now, and immediately start negotiating our own trade deals with whoever we so wish globally. Other EU nations would follow suit very quickly. Including the flow of migrants from wherever we want to find the best candidates to come from.
Great plan but can you explain how we do this. We need to leave the EU right now, and immediately start negotiating our own trade deals with whoever we so wish globally. Other EU nations would follow suit very quickly. Including the flow of migrants from wherever we want to find the best candidates to come from.
We need an orderly exit from the EU, I personally suggest this should be via the EEA as this is likely to make it faster. Even this will require the agreement of all 27 members so will take time. As for negotiating our own agreements. That's fine but almost all agreements are now handled under various international bodies and on most of these we are now represented by the EU. So first we need these body agreeing for us to become individual members again. This will all take time. If you are interested in this subject then I suggest you start reading eureferundum.com. Richard North the writer of the blog, and also in favour of leave, often writes on these technical issues.
porridge said:
Funkycoldribena said:
Pappa Lurve said:
Other poeple manage to love fine of those wages, plus we were paying way above minimum.
Be honest-how much were you actually paying?400pm studio flat,100 CT,leaves 380pm for food,clothes,heating etc,hmmm.
pcvdriver said:
porridge said:
Parents letting them play video games... really? I'm pretty sure kids in private schools let their kids play video games too!
Are you aware that outside your fantasy world, already struggling schools in poor areas are bursting to the seams? Are you aware that we are spending money that could be spent on language teachers is instead diverted to salaries for assistants who speak the native languages of kids who do not speak English on joining school?
And can you also advise how many in Netherlands speak a language other than English & Dutch, and can you explain why it is only a mere 50%, as frankly that is shocking if you are saying half their population cannot speak the international language of business.
We need immigrants, we do not need uncontrolled immigration.
My point re video games was the parents aren't making them do their homework first/at all. Are you aware that outside your fantasy world, already struggling schools in poor areas are bursting to the seams? Are you aware that we are spending money that could be spent on language teachers is instead diverted to salaries for assistants who speak the native languages of kids who do not speak English on joining school?
And can you also advise how many in Netherlands speak a language other than English & Dutch, and can you explain why it is only a mere 50%, as frankly that is shocking if you are saying half their population cannot speak the international language of business.
We need immigrants, we do not need uncontrolled immigration.
Full schools, many are being closed due to shortsighted cut backs.
I said it was 50% OR MORE ......which is a damn sight better than England's paltry 3%
How many schools were closed and how many opened/expanded then, how many overall students?
Mrr T said:
einsign said:
This is the bit thats concerning, whilst we are faffing around and arguing in Europe the rest of the world thinks we are weak and cannot make decisions. I have done a lot of business with China and the speed they make decisions is unbelievable, months not years like us!
We need to leave the EU right now, and immediately start negotiating our own trade deals with whoever we so wish globally. Other EU nations would follow suit very quickly. Including the flow of migrants from wherever we want to find the best candidates to come from.
Great plan but can you explain how we do this. We need to leave the EU right now, and immediately start negotiating our own trade deals with whoever we so wish globally. Other EU nations would follow suit very quickly. Including the flow of migrants from wherever we want to find the best candidates to come from.
We need an orderly exit from the EU, I personally suggest this should be via the EEA as this is likely to make it faster. Even this will require the agreement of all 27 members so will take time. As for negotiating our own agreements. That's fine but almost all agreements are now handled under various international bodies and on most of these we are now represented by the EU. So first we need these body agreeing for us to become individual members again. This will all take time. If you are interested in this subject then I suggest you start reading eureferundum.com. Richard North the writer of the blog, and also in favour of leave, often writes on these technical issues.
If I want to cut the grass on my front lawn with a noisy lawnmower I dont dont post 27 letters through my neighbours doors asking their permission. They might be a bit miffed but my lawn looks much better than theirs on this fine day, and once they get over the shock they then ask me to cut their lawns, which means I need to hire some help!
porridge said:
Funkycoldribena said:
Pappa Lurve said:
Other poeple manage to love fine of those wages, plus we were paying way above minimum.
Be honest-how much were you actually paying?einsign said:
I agree its not that simple but equally its only people in non-jobs that make things complicated for no reason.
If I want to cut the grass on my front lawn with a noisy lawnmower I dont dont post 27 letters through my neighbours doors asking their permission. They might be a bit miffed but my lawn looks much better than theirs on this fine day, and once they get over the shock they then ask me to cut their lawns, which means I need to hire some help!
But lets say your neighbours get fed up with the noise and agree not to use your services any more. You no longer have a job but you do still have a lawn mower and short grass. However, lets say next time you cut your grass the lawn mower breaks and it needs new parts which one of your neighbours make. Lets say he decides not to sell you the parts. You now have no job, no lawn mower, and long grass.If I want to cut the grass on my front lawn with a noisy lawnmower I dont dont post 27 letters through my neighbours doors asking their permission. They might be a bit miffed but my lawn looks much better than theirs on this fine day, and once they get over the shock they then ask me to cut their lawns, which means I need to hire some help!
The world is complicated and undoing a 40 year relationship will take time.
Mrr T said:
einsign said:
I agree its not that simple but equally its only people in non-jobs that make things complicated for no reason.
If I want to cut the grass on my front lawn with a noisy lawnmower I dont dont post 27 letters through my neighbours doors asking their permission. They might be a bit miffed but my lawn looks much better than theirs on this fine day, and once they get over the shock they then ask me to cut their lawns, which means I need to hire some help!
But lets say your neighbours get fed up with the noise and agree not to use your services any more. You no longer have a job but you do still have a lawn mower and short grass. However, lets say next time you cut your grass the lawn mower breaks and it needs new parts which one of your neighbours make. Lets say he decides not to sell you the parts. You now have no job, no lawn mower, and long grass.If I want to cut the grass on my front lawn with a noisy lawnmower I dont dont post 27 letters through my neighbours doors asking their permission. They might be a bit miffed but my lawn looks much better than theirs on this fine day, and once they get over the shock they then ask me to cut their lawns, which means I need to hire some help!
The world is complicated and undoing a 40 year relationship will take time.
For some of the neighbours who don't want their lawns cutting so what, I started from zero remember, but what I will do is cross the road and find new neighbours who have bigger gardens and more money, they happen to be Chinese and Indian families. But first I have to knock down a big wall that the 27 neighbours have built that stops me getting to them, and I cannot do that in my own!
The point being that I will do all of this by myself, I don't need the advice or permission of 27 neighbours who I don't understand, thats just crazy, who would ever do that?
By the way the Dutch are just growing hash on their lawns so once a week we go round for a party and everyone likes each other again for a short while!
einsign said:
Because as a sensible person one of my first employees will be a jobless youngster who will train to become a lawnmower mechanic, I will praise him and pay him well so that my mower improves and becomes the best lawnmower in the street. he will advance technology and make it faster, quieter and more efficient. By re-investing money back into ourselves no one can keep up or compete.!
I actually I said a part broke so mechanic may not be able to fix it. Even better lets say he makes a new better lawn mower which you can sell to all your neighbours. However, lets say they will not buy it unless you pay them a special tax.
einsign said:
For some of the neighbours who don't want their lawns cutting so what, I started from zero remember, but what I will do is cross the road and find new neighbours who have bigger gardens and more money, they happen to be Chinese and Indian families. But first I have to knock down a big wall that the 27 neighbours have built that stops me getting to them, and I cannot do that in my own!.!
That's a great idea. The problem is how do you get to speak to these neighbours. To get to their houses you need to cross your neighbours land, think airspace, telephone switching equipment etc.Your neighbours say no we are cutting off all these. They also say to these big neighbours, who want to sell things to everybody that if they want to sell to them they cannot buy your lawn mower. Now your big neighbours looks at this and you are one small country and your neighbours are many, So they say fine we will not buy the lawn mower.einsign said:
The point being that I will do all of this by myself, I don't need the advice or permission of 27 neighbours who I don't understand, thats just crazy, who would ever do that?!
The world we live in is immensely complicated. Its not called the global village for nothing. The remaining EU will also be a very important trading block only 12 miles away. We need to negotiate a exit which is agreeable to all. In the end all 27 nations will need to agree that's the nature of the EU. einsign said:
By the way the Dutch are just growing hash on their lawns so once a week we go round for a party and everyone likes each other again for a short while!
Not sure if that would speed up or slow down the negotiations.Mrr T said:
einsign said:
Because as a sensible person one of my first employees will be a jobless youngster who will train to become a lawnmower mechanic, I will praise him and pay him well so that my mower improves and becomes the best lawnmower in the street. he will advance technology and make it faster, quieter and more efficient. By re-investing money back into ourselves no one can keep up or compete.!
I actually I said a part broke so mechanic may not be able to fix it. Even better lets say he makes a new better lawn mower which you can sell to all your neighbours. However, lets say they will not buy it unless you pay them a special tax.
einsign said:
For some of the neighbours who don't want their lawns cutting so what, I started from zero remember, but what I will do is cross the road and find new neighbours who have bigger gardens and more money, they happen to be Chinese and Indian families. But first I have to knock down a big wall that the 27 neighbours have built that stops me getting to them, and I cannot do that in my own!.!
That's a great idea. The problem is how do you get to speak to these neighbours. To get to their houses you need to cross your neighbours land, think airspace, telephone switching equipment etc.Your neighbours say no we are cutting off all these. They also say to these big neighbours, who want to sell things to everybody that if they want to sell to them they cannot buy your lawn mower. Now your big neighbours looks at this and you are one small country and your neighbours are many, So they say fine we will not buy the lawn mower.einsign said:
The point being that I will do all of this by myself, I don't need the advice or permission of 27 neighbours who I don't understand, thats just crazy, who would ever do that?!
The world we live in is immensely complicated. Its not called the global village for nothing. The remaining EU will also be a very important trading block only 12 miles away. We need to negotiate a exit which is agreeable to all. In the end all 27 nations will need to agree that's the nature of the EU. einsign said:
By the way the Dutch are just growing hash on their lawns so once a week we go round for a party and everyone likes each other again for a short while!
Not sure if that would speed up or slow down the negotiations.1.1. Special tax or not if my lawnmower is superior to everyone elses people will buy it, and who imposes this special made up tax, not me?
2. Nonsense these people will buy my new mower/service now because its better than anyone elses, its just I have to throw them over the wall at the moment because I have no choice. plus my neighbours do want my mower, why wouldn't they. Think BMW etc.
3. The world is not complicated, we eat, breed, work, crap, sleep and die. Anything else is just fluff and bulsh:t. On a deserted island who would be your first survival friend, a politician?
4.
einsign said:
On a deserted island who would be your first survival friend, a politician?
I'm a glass half full kind of guy so I'd be more than happy to have a politician on the desert island, unfortunately for him ( unless it was an attractive curvaceous "she") theyd not survive because I'd be chopping lumps off them to use for fish bait, that way I wouldnt have to resort to cannibalisation but I'd still get the benefit of their body....and the golden silence. 
4v6 said:
I'm a glass half full kind of guy so I'd be more than happy to have a politician on the desert island, unfortunately for him ( unless it was an attractive curvaceous "she") theyd not survive because I'd be chopping lumps off them to use for fish bait, that way I wouldnt have to resort to cannibalisation but I'd still get the benefit of their body....and the golden silence.
Shame Cyril Smith is dead, blubber is good shark bait.porridge said:
Pappa Lurve said:
Our turnover of UK staff was huge, immigrant turnover lower, they tried to work their way up. I don;t care where someone is from, I just want people who will do a good job. The market for these workers is there for a reaon. Perhaps that is the issue. Why one earth should the country of ones birth mean I have to hire someone with less skills, more attitude, worse ethics etc? Gebneralisation sure, but in my experiance, I would say one that is not without meritt.
They are the same as the British immigrants would be if they moved to a more prosperous country- people are people. Once they find a better opportunity they will be off.A simple example is Fruit picking- last few year Romanians spent long hours picking fruit for a low wage on seasonal permits as they were limited under UK rules, but now they are not, the BBC interviewed both the farmer who didn't know where his next lot were going to come from and also the immigrants who essentially said, "f
k this, I'm off to find something better".People are people- it is the British workers who make this economy run, your anecdotal evidence is paltry.
I assume these two years were picked for a reason, or just the first google image result that proved your point you could find.
here is the second image:
of course a little further down the page you would find the graphs that are actually interesting:
which coincidentally disproves both what Pappa Lurve and yourself have been saying
Edited by Efbe on Friday 17th January 20:39
einsign said:
1. I am an engineer so I will make a new part, either that or I will ask one of the neighbours from China to throw the bit I need over the wall.
1.1. Special tax or not if my lawnmower is superior to everyone elses people will buy it, and who imposes this special made up tax, not me?
2. Nonsense these people will buy my new mower/service now because its better than anyone elses, its just I have to throw them over the wall at the moment because I have no choice. plus my neighbours do want my mower, why wouldn't they. Think BMW etc.
3. The world is not complicated, we eat, breed, work, crap, sleep and die. Anything else is just fluff and bulsh:t. On a deserted island who would be your first survival friend, a politician?
4.
You obviously know the square route of sod-all about Dutch law then. For starters (leaving the legal aspect aside), they don't grow grow hash on their lawns - that would be like saying that that our Women's Institute grow cakes on theirs). They grow cannabis and they need to ask the permission from their neighbours, to make sure no-body will take offence to their activities. Contrary to popular belief, cannabis is still against the law in the Netherlands.1.1. Special tax or not if my lawnmower is superior to everyone elses people will buy it, and who imposes this special made up tax, not me?
2. Nonsense these people will buy my new mower/service now because its better than anyone elses, its just I have to throw them over the wall at the moment because I have no choice. plus my neighbours do want my mower, why wouldn't they. Think BMW etc.
3. The world is not complicated, we eat, breed, work, crap, sleep and die. Anything else is just fluff and bulsh:t. On a deserted island who would be your first survival friend, a politician?
4.
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