Lots of angry people today.
Discussion
cookie118 said:
Lets look at some of the facts of the situation when it moved:
- The loan made up £80 miilion of a £600 million investment package-so the majority of funding was already in place.
- Ford stated to the EU that the load did not make up the decision to move the plant, it was moving anyway.
- Ford was forcasting massive losses in the EU at the time and claimed it couldn't sustain two Transit plants
- I believe that the Ford Turkey plant was making a profit at the time.
- 70% of UK Transits were already made in turkey at the time
- The Turkey plant built 185,000 Transits and the Southampton plant built 28,000 in the year before it was shut.
Now I don't particularly like the fact that production was moved-but when you look at the facts above-a loss making european business, a larger profit making factory and a small factory that you could close to reduce overheads-would any business keep the UK factory open based on a business case?
For me the key question is why was it in that situation in the first place?
Blaming the EU for it moving because of the loan isn't particulaly correct-I think Ford were moving anyway.
Hang on a minute: ignoring the viability or otherwise of the Southampton plant, we have one of the architects of the Remain campaign approving a loan of EU taxpayers' money (assuming that is where EIB funding comes from) at a nice friendly interest rate to one of the biggest (and non-EU headquartered) corporations on Earth, to expand a production facility in a country outside the EU? You what?- The loan made up £80 miilion of a £600 million investment package-so the majority of funding was already in place.
- Ford stated to the EU that the load did not make up the decision to move the plant, it was moving anyway.
- Ford was forcasting massive losses in the EU at the time and claimed it couldn't sustain two Transit plants
- I believe that the Ford Turkey plant was making a profit at the time.
- 70% of UK Transits were already made in turkey at the time
- The Turkey plant built 185,000 Transits and the Southampton plant built 28,000 in the year before it was shut.
Now I don't particularly like the fact that production was moved-but when you look at the facts above-a loss making european business, a larger profit making factory and a small factory that you could close to reduce overheads-would any business keep the UK factory open based on a business case?
For me the key question is why was it in that situation in the first place?
Blaming the EU for it moving because of the loan isn't particulaly correct-I think Ford were moving anyway.
MarshPhantom said:
Dr Jekyll said:
cookie118 said:
It's worth pointing out that if UKIP/the Brexiteers had just 'got over it' and got on with the situation they were presented with before the referendum then we never would have had it.
However now we've had the referendum and they've 'won' they expect everyone else to just get on with it?
No-there's no reason why I and other remainers should just get over it.
Fine, so you can have another referendum in 40 years.However now we've had the referendum and they've 'won' they expect everyone else to just get on with it?
No-there's no reason why I and other remainers should just get over it.
Dr Jekyll said:
MarshPhantom said:
Dr Jekyll said:
cookie118 said:
It's worth pointing out that if UKIP/the Brexiteers had just 'got over it' and got on with the situation they were presented with before the referendum then we never would have had it.
However now we've had the referendum and they've 'won' they expect everyone else to just get on with it?
No-there's no reason why I and other remainers should just get over it.
Fine, so you can have another referendum in 40 years.However now we've had the referendum and they've 'won' they expect everyone else to just get on with it?
No-there's no reason why I and other remainers should just get over it.
Jockman said:
Dr Jekyll said:
MarshPhantom said:
Dr Jekyll said:
cookie118 said:
It's worth pointing out that if UKIP/the Brexiteers had just 'got over it' and got on with the situation they were presented with before the referendum then we never would have had it.
However now we've had the referendum and they've 'won' they expect everyone else to just get on with it?
No-there's no reason why I and other remainers should just get over it.
Fine, so you can have another referendum in 40 years.However now we've had the referendum and they've 'won' they expect everyone else to just get on with it?
No-there's no reason why I and other remainers should just get over it.
Dr Jekyll said:
cookie118 said:
It's worth pointing out that if UKIP/the Brexiteers had just 'got over it' and got on with the situation they were presented with before the referendum then we never would have had it.
However now we've had the referendum and they've 'won' they expect everyone else to just get on with it?
No-there's no reason why I and other remainers should just get over it.
Fine, so you can have another referendum in 40 years.However now we've had the referendum and they've 'won' they expect everyone else to just get on with it?
No-there's no reason why I and other remainers should just get over it.
Edited by Smollet on Sunday 10th July 16:24
HerrSchnell said:
///ajd said:
powerstroke said:
Uk engineering , Transit production southamton now in turkey , two of our biggest truck manufctures gone , trains and carriages used to be exported now we import and don't mention ship bulding.. I don't think we should worry about Brexit its acountants and short term gain by asset strippers we need to worry about they are the ones who f
k manufacturing jobs....
This just proves manufacturing is easily lost from the UK. I agree.k manufacturing jobs....So why make it much more likely to p1ss off with brexit?
k off elsewhere:http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/george-osborn...
"we don't need legacy industries"
Just as he signed off a significant part of the steel industry to TATA...
A week ago the bedwetters were wailing about the impending doom that would inevitably follow the disastrous collapse of the, previously unknown, FTSE250.
There were a few hours of panic in the traitors ranks when the FTSE250 proved that, as usual, they were completely wrong and it staged a recovery.
Then, one of them noticed that an obscure property fund had temporarily suspended Trading. Oh what joy, "carry on bedwetting" the screamed in their joyous state of hysteria.
Already, they are preparing for the recovery of the property funds by telling us that we are definitely in a recession. After all, we have no figures to prove that we are not in a recession... so, boo hoo, we must be in one.
The problem that these economically illiterate experts face is that the pound has just suffered a sharp fall. When this happens there is an immediate boost to the economy.
Just look at the 12 months prior to our ERM exit. The economy grew 0.1%.
In the quarter immediately following our exit things picked up dramatically and the 12 post exit saw 3.1% growth.
So chaps. I have some really bad news for you.
Everything is absolutely fine.
Really sorry about that, but there you go.
There were a few hours of panic in the traitors ranks when the FTSE250 proved that, as usual, they were completely wrong and it staged a recovery.
Then, one of them noticed that an obscure property fund had temporarily suspended Trading. Oh what joy, "carry on bedwetting" the screamed in their joyous state of hysteria.
Already, they are preparing for the recovery of the property funds by telling us that we are definitely in a recession. After all, we have no figures to prove that we are not in a recession... so, boo hoo, we must be in one.
The problem that these economically illiterate experts face is that the pound has just suffered a sharp fall. When this happens there is an immediate boost to the economy.
Just look at the 12 months prior to our ERM exit. The economy grew 0.1%.
In the quarter immediately following our exit things picked up dramatically and the 12 post exit saw 3.1% growth.
So chaps. I have some really bad news for you.
Everything is absolutely fine.
Really sorry about that, but there you go.
don4l said:
A week ago the bedwetters were wailing about the impending doom that would inevitably follow the disastrous collapse of the, previously unknown, FTSE250.
There were a few hours of panic in the traitors ranks when the FTSE250 proved that, as usual, they were completely wrong and it staged a recovery.
The market simply reacted to uncertainty - no-one was wrong or right. Your inciteful (but unfortunately not insightful) language doesn't help for a sensible discussion.There were a few hours of panic in the traitors ranks when the FTSE250 proved that, as usual, they were completely wrong and it staged a recovery.
don4l said:
Then, one of them noticed that an obscure property fund had temporarily suspended Trading. Oh what joy, "carry on bedwetting" the screamed in their joyous state of hysteria.
To be fair, there are at least 6 funds, with over £15bn of assets that have taken preventative action to avoid fire sales.[quote=don4l
Already, they are preparing for the recovery of the property funds by telling us that we are definitely in a recession. After all, we have no figures to prove that we are not in a recession... so, boo hoo, we must be in one.
The problem that these economically illiterate experts face is that the pound has just suffered a sharp fall. When this happens there is an immediate boost to the economy.
Just look at the 12 months prior to our ERM exit. The economy grew 0.1%.
In the quarter immediately following our exit things picked up dramatically and the 12 post exit saw 3.1% growth.
So chaps. I have some really bad news for you.
Everything is absolutely fine.
Really sorry about that, but there you go.
chow pan toon said:
So we can't refer to Brexiteers as racists or thickos but its OK to smear the other side, got it.
Perhaps if the Remainers ever get to the point of stopping their incessant whingeing, we might just ALL be able to work together to improve the country for the longer term.chow pan toon said:
powerstroke said:
get over it.... for once the country has done something sensible , and we don't want morons , gravy train riders or the metropoltan elite to fk it up ....
So we can't refer to Brexiteers as racists or thickos but its OK to smear the other side, got it.k it up .... Robertj21a said:
Perhaps if the Remainers ever get to the point of stopping their incessant whingeing, we might just ALL be able to work together to improve the country for the longer term.
Can I refer you back to my previous post.If UKIP etc had just got on with it and we'd all worked together and stopped their incessant whinging we never would have had the referendum.
So no-Why should we stop criticising?
Brexiteers seemed to want more accountability for the uk but then don't seem so want to take responsibility for the decisions and fallout from brexit. They seem to hate any criticism of the current situation, just pinning it instead on remainers not agreeing with them.
sidicks said:
don4l said:
A week ago the bedwetters were wailing about the impending doom that would inevitably follow the disastrous collapse of the, previously unknown, FTSE250.
There were a few hours of panic in the traitors ranks when the FTSE250 proved that, as usual, they were completely wrong and it staged a recovery.
The market simply reacted to uncertainty - no-one was wrong or right. Your inciteful (but unfortunately not insightful) language doesn't help for a sensible discussion.There were a few hours of panic in the traitors ranks when the FTSE250 proved that, as usual, they were completely wrong and it staged a recovery.
don4l said:
Then, one of them noticed that an obscure property fund had temporarily suspended Trading. Oh what joy, "carry on bedwetting" the screamed in their joyous state of hysteria.
To be fair, there are at least 6 funds, with over £15bn of assets that have taken preventative action to avoid fire sales.It is nothing to worry about, yet alone panic.
cookie118 said:
Robertj21a said:
Perhaps if the Remainers ever get to the point of stopping their incessant whingeing, we might just ALL be able to work together to improve the country for the longer term.
Can I refer you back to my previous post.If UKIP etc had just got on with it and we'd all worked together and stopped their incessant whinging we never would have had the referendum.
So no-Why should we stop criticising?
Brexiteers seemed to want more accountability for the uk but then don't seem so want to take responsibility for the decisions and fallout from brexit. They seem to hate any criticism of the current situation, just pinning it instead on remainers not agreeing with them.
We voted leave.... now that same elected government just needs to follow the instructions it asked for.....
Its that simple.....
we voted leave ...
powerstroke said:
We had a referendum which the current elected government asked should we remain a member of the EU or leave the EU.
We voted leave.... now that same elected government just needs to follow the instructions it asked for.....
Its that simple.....
we voted leave now
Yes but in opposition does the losing party at a general election just sit there and accept everything because they lost?We voted leave.... now that same elected government just needs to follow the instructions it asked for.....
Its that simple.....
we voted leave now
Nope
Why should I not point out the downsides we are experiencing as a result of brexit?
Why should I not criticise?
Would you rather everyone pretend it's all sunshine and unicorns?
cookie118 said:
powerstroke said:
We had a referendum which the current elected government asked should we remain a member of the EU or leave the EU.
We voted leave.... now that same elected government just needs to follow the instructions it asked for.....
Its that simple.....
we voted leave now
Yes but in opposition does the losing party at a general election just sit there and accept everything because they lost?We voted leave.... now that same elected government just needs to follow the instructions it asked for.....
Its that simple.....
we voted leave now
Nope
Why should I not point out the downsides we are experiencing as a result of brexit?
Why should I not criticise?
Would you rather everyone pretend it's all sunshine and unicorns?
don4l said:
A week ago the bedwetters were wailing about the impending doom that would inevitably follow the disastrous collapse of the, previously unknown, FTSE250.
There were a few hours of panic in the traitors ranks when the FTSE250 proved that, as usual, they were completely wrong and it staged a recovery.
Then, one of them noticed that an obscure property fund had temporarily suspended Trading. Oh what joy, "carry on bedwetting" the screamed in their joyous state of hysteria.
Already, they are preparing for the recovery of the property funds by telling us that we are definitely in a recession. After all, we have no figures to prove that we are not in a recession... so, boo hoo, we must be in one.
The problem that these economically illiterate experts face is that the pound has just suffered a sharp fall. When this happens there is an immediate boost to the economy.
Just look at the 12 months prior to our ERM exit. The economy grew 0.1%.
In the quarter immediately following our exit things picked up dramatically and the 12 post exit saw 3.1% growth.
So chaps. I have some really bad news for you.
Everything is absolutely fine.
Really sorry about that, but there you go.
Being totally neutral here.There were a few hours of panic in the traitors ranks when the FTSE250 proved that, as usual, they were completely wrong and it staged a recovery.
Then, one of them noticed that an obscure property fund had temporarily suspended Trading. Oh what joy, "carry on bedwetting" the screamed in their joyous state of hysteria.
Already, they are preparing for the recovery of the property funds by telling us that we are definitely in a recession. After all, we have no figures to prove that we are not in a recession... so, boo hoo, we must be in one.
The problem that these economically illiterate experts face is that the pound has just suffered a sharp fall. When this happens there is an immediate boost to the economy.
Just look at the 12 months prior to our ERM exit. The economy grew 0.1%.
In the quarter immediately following our exit things picked up dramatically and the 12 post exit saw 3.1% growth.
So chaps. I have some really bad news for you.
Everything is absolutely fine.
Really sorry about that, but there you go.
The FTSE "whatever" is worth a hell of a lot less than it did prior the vote. Those numbers might have risen but currently are offset as the value of the pound has dropped so much. So we are looking at around 10%. A 10% fall in market numbers is considered a crash but the BOE and Ozzy are calling it a "shock"
.Everything since 2008 is skewed so far into the unknown. The numbers will never mean anything right now as there has been so much tinkering around.
It would seem The Italians are about to f
k things up further.Our banks have been given the green light to lend so called ring fenced money because investors are telling our banks to jog on.
It's the last roll of the dice.
Everything isn't fine.
Interesting times indeed.
don4l said:
A week ago the bedwetters were wailing about the impending doom that would inevitably follow the disastrous collapse of the, previously unknown, FTSE250.
There were a few hours of panic in the traitors ranks when the FTSE250 proved that, as usual, they were completely wrong and it staged a recovery.
Then, one of them noticed that an obscure property fund had temporarily suspended Trading. Oh what joy, "carry on bedwetting" the screamed in their joyous state of hysteria.
Already, they are preparing for the recovery of the property funds by telling us that we are definitely in a recession. After all, we have no figures to prove that we are not in a recession... so, boo hoo, we must be in one.
The problem that these economically illiterate experts face is that the pound has just suffered a sharp fall. When this happens there is an immediate boost to the economy.
Just look at the 12 months prior to our ERM exit. The economy grew 0.1%.
In the quarter immediately following our exit things picked up dramatically and the 12 post exit saw 3.1% growth.
So chaps. I have some really bad news for you.
Everything is absolutely fine.
Really sorry about that, but there you go.
FTSE 250 is still well down. I think the partial recovery is because article 50 wasn't triggered immediately, I expect we will see further falls when it is. There were a few hours of panic in the traitors ranks when the FTSE250 proved that, as usual, they were completely wrong and it staged a recovery.
Then, one of them noticed that an obscure property fund had temporarily suspended Trading. Oh what joy, "carry on bedwetting" the screamed in their joyous state of hysteria.
Already, they are preparing for the recovery of the property funds by telling us that we are definitely in a recession. After all, we have no figures to prove that we are not in a recession... so, boo hoo, we must be in one.
The problem that these economically illiterate experts face is that the pound has just suffered a sharp fall. When this happens there is an immediate boost to the economy.
Just look at the 12 months prior to our ERM exit. The economy grew 0.1%.
In the quarter immediately following our exit things picked up dramatically and the 12 post exit saw 3.1% growth.
So chaps. I have some really bad news for you.
Everything is absolutely fine.
Really sorry about that, but there you go.
Some major uk based companies are well down, especially construction.
powerstroke said:
chow pan toon said:
powerstroke said:
get over it.... for once the country has done something sensible , and we don't want morons , gravy train riders or the metropoltan elite to fk it up ....
So we can't refer to Brexiteers as racists or thickos but its OK to smear the other side, got it.k it up .... Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff