Lunacy on the M40
Discussion
dandarez said:
Subaru occupants named earlier this evening as John Norton, 80, and Olive Howard, 87.
Both from High Wycombe.
Weird ... just a short drive away ... normally would be familiar with the local motorway. Both from High Wycombe.
Assume likely they’ve been living in the area a while - road has been the same for years
alfaman said:
dandarez said:
Subaru occupants named earlier this evening as John Norton, 80, and Olive Howard, 87.
Both from High Wycombe.
Weird ... just a short drive away ... normally would be familiar with the local motorway. Both from High Wycombe.
Assume likely they’ve been living in the area a while - road has been the same for years
Having said that, having a caravan on the back would imply experience of motorways.
more pics emerging
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6304121/C...
It does look like they turned down the missing slip road at J7
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6304121/C...
It does look like they turned down the missing slip road at J7
saaby93 said:
more pics emerging
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6304121/C...
It does look like they turned down the missing slip road at J7
That's not a new photo - that's from the truck dashcam that came out almost instantly.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6304121/C...
It does look like they turned down the missing slip road at J7
The only "new" photos in that are the ones of the deceased.
Volvo1956 said:
I wonder where their intended destination was.
He or she must have still been pretty fit to be mauling with a caravan.at their ages.
Peculiar set of circumstances all round.
Reportedly the elderly couple lived in High Wycombe, so south of where it happened and on a Monday, so perhaps they returning home after a weekend away.He or she must have still been pretty fit to be mauling with a caravan.at their ages.
Peculiar set of circumstances all round.
The article also says "The caravan was believed to have joined the M40 motorway eight miles from the crash scene" which should answer that question.
https://metro.co.uk/2018/10/23/couple-in-car-towin...
kev1974 said:
red_slr said:
I am starting to suspect suicide.. not much adds up and the police also asking for family to come forward which indicates they have no NOK.
Why bother hitching the caravan back up then? why not just drive it off a cliff or bridge rather than seek a motorway crash where you might (a) take out innocent people, as they did (b) not end up dead but just painfully injured?All we know is he drove at speed in lane 3, for a long time, pretty much not taking any avoiding action and managed to crash at such a speed that it was 3x fatal.
Clearly in control so not a medical incident.
Not lost, he was local.
Not making any attempt to slow down or stop.
No attempt to turn round.
Seems to be driving at high speed.
All of that points to suicide IMHO.
red_slr said:
All of that points to suicide IMHO.
If it was suicide, why not just aim at the first oncoming 38 tonner or bridge support? Why drive 8 miles, the thick end of ten minutes before hitting something?Look at the dashcam video from the car in the same lane - the Subaru's just going in an absolute straight line, with everybody diving out of its way.
That just doesn't tie with "suicide".
No, they got on the wrong direction accidentally, panicked, and were trying to get to another junction to get off again.
If they got on at the services r'a'b, then the junctions they'd passed by that point were all exit-slip only.
TooMany2cvs said:
red_slr said:
All of that points to suicide IMHO.
If it was suicide, why not just aim at the first oncoming 38 tonner or bridge support? Why drive 8 miles, the thick end of ten minutes before hitting something?Look at the dashcam video from the car in the same lane - the Subaru's just going in an absolute straight line, with everybody diving out of its way.
That just doesn't tie with "suicide".
No, they got on the wrong direction accidentally, panicked, and were trying to get to another junction to get off again.
If they got on at the services r'a'b, then the junctions they'd passed by that point were all exit-slip only.
At the end of the day, we may never find out. Unless they left a note or something.
TooMany2cvs said:
No, they got on the wrong direction accidentally, panicked, and were trying to get to another junction to get off again.
It might not even be panicIt could be what most people normally do.
saaby93 said:
GSE said:
Any sane person would have realized their mistake and immediately stopped.
From what's been posted about similar occurences that doesnt seem to happen. They seem to keep going.Have you found some articles where someone has realised and parked up?
saaby93 said:
Would more gaps in the central reservation work? Or would they still try to get to the next junction?
No, you'd just get more idiots causing accidents by trying to do U-Turns through them.On the 's
t driving thread on camera' thread we see lot of examples of accidents caused by that all the time in other countries where they have them.My best guess.... complete and utter st storm of confusion......
Hoping people would avoid him until he raced to what he thought would be the next exit slip or some road to escape.
Obviously that was never going to happen as he he was in lane three!!!!
Sad event. No consolation to the family of the innocent parties caught up in this but obviously it could have been worse.
RIP to all.
t storm of confusion......Hoping people would avoid him until he raced to what he thought would be the next exit slip or some road to escape.
Obviously that was never going to happen as he he was in lane three!!!!
Sad event. No consolation to the family of the innocent parties caught up in this but obviously it could have been worse.
RIP to all.
otolith said:
"Witnesses claim the driver of the Subaru was waving his hands and beeping his horn before the horrific crash."
Why has he put his wipers on?
I think he was just completely confused and didn't understand what was happening.
That's what I think, probably coupled with some stubbornness, 'I'm in the right here, what are these idiots doing'. I think wild panic would be more likely result in wild swerving of avoidance. We see it in the videos of 'stamping the accelerator instead of brakes' which is typically coupled with wild steering. Why has he put his wipers on?
I think he was just completely confused and didn't understand what was happening.
Whilst here we see willfully pressing on despite the obvious dangers and a strong unwillingness to even stop and work out what is wrong. Any sensible driver on the correct side of the road (or not), encountering a stream of cars coming their way, is immediately going to wonder WTH is going on, slow right down or stop and try to work out what is going on. In the videos we see practically every driver they encounter do this, they all slow right down after joining the middle lane.
That raises a lot question about why, press on like this, it has to be some kind of loss of basic reasoning capability. This could be part of a general deterioration in reasoning such as dementia, or a new episode like partial stroke and locked into semi-automatic behaviours. I'm sure we've all been in the situation of slipping into driving on autopilot at times when something a little out the ordinary has suddenly snatched our attention from just plodding on.
Also why didn't she object, was she incapacitated already, or perhaps he is the type that will simply never be told anything.
Yes this is all pretty speculative, but given this is so far out of normal expectations there was something odd going on here.
Edited by 4x4Tyke on Tuesday 23 October 11:24
4x4Tyke said:
Yes this is all pretty speculative, but given this is so far out of normal expectations there was something odd going on here.
Those of us that have met a wrongwayer can see it all begins with a simple mistake - taking an exit off a roundabout or turning out of a sideroad into the wrong half of a DC without realising it's a DCIt wouldnt be difficult to turn right at the sign here
GSE said:
If the driver approached J7 along the A329 from the south-west, he may have misread this sign to turn right for the M40. The sign refers to the legitimate turn for the M40, which is over the bridge and some some distance ahead, yet seems to be positioned directly opposite the M40 exit at J7. If he did make this turn, he still managed to ignore at least 4 no entry signs, several give way and turn arrows facing the wrong way, cross three lanes of oncoming traffic to enter the motorway, and then drive at speed for some distance before the crash. It's shocking how detached from reality he must have been.
TooMany2cvs said:
"But it's the right side of the road!"
Probably easier for the occupants of L3 to avoid the Subaru, too, than the wagons in L1.
Exactly my point he thought he was in the correct lane.Probably easier for the occupants of L3 to avoid the Subaru, too, than the wagons in L1.
Wagons buses etc etc I know where I'd rather be if I'd fooked up.
Lane 1..... hard shoulder.... embankment if no armco.
Speed of vehicles generally less. etc.
saaby93 said:
Those of us that have met a wrongwayer can see it all begins with a simple mistake - taking an exit off a roundabout or turning out of a sideroad into the wrong half of a DC without realising it's a DC
It wouldnt be difficult to turn right at the sign here
Yes, I can see that, what I can't 'get', is the pressing on regardless.It wouldnt be difficult to turn right at the sign here
Willhire89 said:
Why can't we just have a simple rule - first wrong way access of a slip (or indeed any no entry of this type) and it gets fitted with a durable version of these:
Then if it picks up say three in any year (or a figure of your choice) a road design needs to be undertaken.
You leave the motorway at the slip, which slopes upwards. There's a queue for the r'a'b.Then if it picks up say three in any year (or a figure of your choice) a road design needs to be undertaken.
What do you reckon the chances of nobody ever rolling back over the spikes are?
Then there's what'll happen in the event of the m'way being closed, and the police needing to get people off via the on-slip.
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