Why the Corbyn hatred?

[Bullet-Proof_Biscuit]

Pan Pan Pan said:

MC Bodge said:

Partyvan said:

Bullet-Proof_Biscuit said:

Caveating the above with myself being rather of the no benefits and low tax variety, as comes with age typically (when you realise you don't want to have it all deducted to feed the down and outs).

You mean you don't want to pay for other people's poor life choices? And that perhaps you are better placed than the government to spend your hard earned?

I think that is known as the "I'm alright, Jack" stance.

Will you be chipping-in or paying the construction firms yourself when the local roads need re-surfacing or when national infrastructure projects are needed?

You presumably don't think that the population need educating.

Edited by MC Bodge on Sunday 1st November 15:44

It is also known as the what is mine, is mine, and what is yours, is mine, (only I don't want to do anything to earn it, and just want it handed to me) stance

Not at all, I happily contribute my NICs & PAYE deductions to fund state maintenance of the state, I however do not support policies which themselves support subsidising and encouraging 'freeloading' if such a term is accurate to my angle.

And I whole heartedly promote state education, and such policies as state support for disabled people for example. Myself having several relatives who are heavily autistic & downs syndrome sufferers, take the former for example, my particularly terrible state schooling where in year 8 we learned to smoke cigarettes, year 10 it was weed and of my academic year, 1.5 students on average went onto further education, myself making up the 1.. So that I would not end up like the parents of the other 149 students in my year & their parents who would complain at the school gates about their having to walk to the benefits office to get their cut & then proceed to complain about the various issues with the state of their council houses.
If the average Joe were told, 'if you don't work you don't get money', one would expect them to work no? This is my understanding of the current policy deficiency of the benefits system, which I do not believe in, hence the above.

Interesting analogy I heard a long time ago and will always remember: In the UK, the attitude in school & general is 'Can I?', whereas in America, the attitude is 'I can!'. And I think a big part of that attitude is developed personally in young school formative years. Which I think Corbyn types are pro insofar as increasing school budgets to further youth education.

Which is why I thought I was a pro Corbyn type, and dismissed the anti-Semite news as slander, though maybe he is as bad as they say.. Just not the aspect where those who work harder & put more effort into life are 'punished' beyond the same measure as those who work less hard and put less effort into life, within reason of course.

I'm trying to put across a complex opinion which appears to be flawed and definitely will be interpreted in many many ways quickly, *Get's his jacket..*

[Hereward]

Bullet-Proof_Biscuit said:

...
Interesting analogy I heard a long time ago and will always remember: In the UK, the attitude in school & general is 'Can I?', whereas in America, the attitude is 'I can!'. And I think a big part of that attitude is developed personally in young school formative years. Which I think Corbyn types are pro insofar as increasing school budgets to further youth education. ...

It's an interesting point, isn't it. I have often wondered the same. When travelling in the US I always note how self-confident everyone is (or they certainly portray it well). On YouTube typically the typical UK presenter will be reserved and hesitant and the US presenter confident and articulate. Just my little observations.

Of course school and peer group must play a massive part but I think parents do too. Perhaps the US mentality is different based uppon their history - success and resultant wealth is something to be proud of and to strive for.

However, since this is a Corbyn thread surely we must mention the devastating consequence of left-wing thought so pervasive in UK teaching/unions

[Kent Border Kenny]

Bullet-Proof_Biscuit said:

If the average Joe were told, 'if you don't work you don't get money', one would expect them to work no? This is my understanding of the current policy deficiency of the benefits system, which I do not believe in, hence the above.

I grew up in a pit village, in the 80s, and while others were doing their nuts over the mines closing, I was thinking that I didn’t much fancy a life underground, or even many of the lives above ground that looked available, so I left, got the best education that I could, and tried to become a success in a profession.

Quarter of a century later, I’ve done that, and done it pretty well. I thought that I was the sort of person who Labour would love, but no, it turns out to be quite the opposite. They hate anyone that gives the lie to the claim that the capitalist system holds us down. We’re told that we should be ashamed at having more than one home, and Corbyn literally promised a “day of reckoning” against people like me if he gained office.

How could I vote for that?

[MC Bodge]

Hereward said:

It's an interesting point, isn't it. I have often wondered the same. When travelling in the US I always note how self-confident everyone is (or they certainly portray it well). On YouTube typically the typical UK presenter will be reserved and hesitant and the US presenter confident and articulate. Just my little observations.

Of course school and peer group must play a massive part but I think parents do too. Perhaps the US mentality is different based uppon their history - success and resultant wealth is something to be proud of and to strive for.

However, since this is a Corbyn thread surely we must mention the devastating consequence of left-wing thought so pervasive in UK teaching/unions

There are a lot of poor people in the US. I wouldn't like to be one of them

[Kent Border Kenny]

Hereward said:

However, since this is a Corbyn thread surely we must mention the devastating consequence of left-wing thought so pervasive in UK teaching/unions

When I was young, I just assumed, given how I was doing in school, that I’d go to Oxford and do a physics degree, then do a doctorate in particle physics at CERN.

It never occurred to me that this might be up for debate. I was good enough, I loved the subject, so that was that. I didn’t discuss it, there seemed no need.

When it came time to apply to university, the prospectuses for most were in the library, but no Oxford or Cambridge.

I asked why not, and was told that they didn’t have them, as it cost £10 to apply, which would be a waste of money for “people like you”, by which they meant working class.

I decided that this seemed unlikely, so took £10, applied, and was invited to interview. After the interview, I was given an offer to attend if I achieved “two passes at A-level”, I.e. two E-grades or better.

No-one at the school seemed to want to make anything of this. They’d been graduating 500 pupils per year for twenty years, and I was the first to ever go to either of the top universities, but that wasn’t anything to celebrate.

[Oilchange]

How bloody depressing.

[anonymous-user]

Kent Border Kenny said:

Hereward said:

However, since this is a Corbyn thread surely we must mention the devastating consequence of left-wing thought so pervasive in UK teaching/unions

When I was young, I just assumed, given how I was doing in school, that I’d go to Oxford and do a physics degree, then do a doctorate in particle physics at CERN.

It never occurred to me that this might be up for debate. I was good enough, I loved the subject, so that was that. I didn’t discuss it, there seemed no need.

When it came time to apply to university, the prospectuses for most were in the library, but no Oxford or Cambridge.

I asked why not, and was told that they didn’t have them, as it cost £10 to apply, which would be a waste of money for “people like you”, by which they meant working class.

I decided that this seemed unlikely, so took £10, applied, and was invited to interview. After the interview, I was given an offer to attend if I achieved “two passes at A-level”, I.e. two E-grades or better.

No-one at the school seemed to want to make anything of this. They’d been graduating 500 pupils per year for twenty years, and I was the first to ever go to either of the top universities, but that wasn’t anything to celebrate.

I have quite a few friends from Cambridge who were heavily involved in the outreach program as undergrads and even afterwards. Every one of them has stories of resistance by teachers who refused to push or assist able students to apply; usually because of some BS about being elitist, full of snobs, too expensive (this was back when it was free!), all the usual class warfare momentum drivel we've come to enjoy today. I shudder to think how many thousands of bright kids have had their futures so profoundly affected by such advice over the years.

Oh and did you do the Doctorate at Cern?

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 2nd November 15:15

[Johnnytheboy]

Kent Border Kenny said:

Quarter of a century later, I’ve done that, and done it pretty well. I thought that I was the sort of person who Labour would love, but no, it turns out to be quite the opposite. They hate anyone that gives the lie to the claim that the capitalist system holds us down. We’re told that we should be ashamed at having more than one home, and Corbyn literally promised a “day of reckoning” against people like me if he gained office.

How could I vote for that?

Class solidarity. Stay in your place.

That's how to help the poor apparently.

[Oilchange]

That’s bloody depressing too

[crofty1984]

s1962a said:

Disastrous said:

williamp said:

Can you recognise that the term gammon is offensive?

Honestly, the idea of a bunch of grumpy old duffers angrily trying to paint themselves as an oppressed minority is too laughable to get into.

Don’t like Corbyn but in terms of ‘gammon’ there have been many references to it on prior PH threads and the concensus was/is that it is not an offensive term. Google should give you some links to these threads if you so wish to read them.

Can something be racist but not offensive? I'm certainly not offended by it, but if it is to work as an insult (as it is normally used) it depends on:
An assumption that the person is white
That certain assumptions can be made about that person's opinions and status
That those opinions and status are viewed in a negative manner

So racist, surely? A negative pre-judgement of someone based on race.

[Kent Border Kenny]

fblm said:

I have quite a few friends from Cambridge who were heavily involved in the outreach program as undergrads and even afterwards. Every one of them has stories of resistance by teachers who refused to push or assist able students to apply; usually because of some BS about being elitist, full of snobs, too expensive (this was back when it was free!), all the usual class warfare momentum drivel we've come to enjoy today. I shudder to think how many thousands of bright kids have had their futures so profoundly affected by such advice over the years.

Oh and did you do the Doctorate at Cern?

Edited by fblm on Monday 2nd November 15:15

I did, I worked on the statistics for one of the detectors which later found the proof of the Higgs Boson, so achieved all that I’d hoped for there.

I hope that things are different now, but have no idea if they are. My outreach work now is about encouraging people from backgrounds like mine to consider careers in the professions, as career guidance at school was in about the same level as my teachers’ input.

“Oh, you have an amazing facility for data organisation, pattern spotting, and formal logic. You should work in a library”

[Kent Border Kenny]

Johnnytheboy said:

Class solidarity. Stay in your place.

That's how to help the poor apparently.

Rise with your class, not above them...

It’s still an attitude that’s to common, and I’ve no idea how to do my bit to change it.

[anonymous-user]

Kent Border Kenny said:

I did, I worked on the statistics for one of the detectors which later found the proof of the Higgs Boson, so achieved all that I’d hoped for there.

Incredible. Major respect.

[stitched]

Kent Border Kenny said:

Johnnytheboy said:

Class solidarity. Stay in your place.

That's how to help the poor apparently.

Rise with your class, not above them...

It’s still an attitude that’s to common, and I’ve no idea how to do my bit to change it.

I remember asking my mum what class we were as it had come up at school.
Her reply was classic mum, 'I really can't tell you that, it's entirely up to you'

[crofty1984]

Previous said:

Fundoreen said:

Do all the people involved in the sabotage of his campaign/character ponder they saddled us with this poor government.
Im willing to accept they felt his was so terrible that they had to do something even if it was sabotage.
At least covid19 doesnt discriminate so the smugness may subside one day as we ponder there are worse things than hurt feelings.

I suspect that many do consider that they've saddled us with this poor government, and regret that Labour didn't offer a suitable alternative candidate, leaving little real choice.

I agree with this person.

[bqf]

Ooh I've just stumbled on this thread.

In answer to the original question;

1. He's an enemy of the state.
2. Likes the company of terrorists, IRA, Hezbollah
3. He's anti-semitic, largely due to his fetishization of the Palestinian struggle
4. He once shagged Diane Abbott
5. He couldn't run a bath, let alone the opposition
6 - 100 - loads of other reasons but they'll be on the thread I'm sure

Not only do I hope he is permanently expelled from the Labour Party, but I'd also like never to see him able to speak his nonsense on British media ever again, perhaps like his friend and child killer Gerry Adams.

[SpeckledJim]

Johnnytheboy said:

MC Bodge said:

The UK system requires a big party that can present a united front, despite being a coalition of often very different groups.

The Tories have historically been good at this.

The right - despite in many ways being as ideologically diverse as the left if not more so - seem less prone to factionalism and infighting than the left.

The right seem better at winning power first, and squabbling later. Whereas the left get stuck into the squabbling straight away, and self-sabotage their chances at power.

The factionalism makes the good the enemy of the perfect, resulting in silos too small to be effective in a first-past-the-post system.

Corbyn never convinced his MPs that his extremism wasn't going to lose their seats for them, so never achieved a unity of purpose, so, ironically, lost a lot of their seats for them.

The intricate layers of 'The Project' of the last 6 years in the Labour Party have been absolutely fascinating, IMO.

[hidetheelephants]

Kent Border Kenny said:

I did, I worked on the statistics for one of the detectors which later found the proof of the Higgs Boson, so achieved all that I’d hoped for there.

I hope that things are different now, but have no idea if they are. My outreach work now is about encouraging people from backgrounds like mine to consider careers in the professions, as career guidance at school was in about the same level as my teachers’ input.

“Oh, you have an amazing facility for data organisation, pattern spotting, and formal logic. You should work in a library”

Not that there are many libraries left to work in; successive governments have either actively conspired against them or passively allowed councils to cheesepare funding and close them.

[Ganglandboss]

Bullet-Proof_Biscuit said:

Doesn't he cycle to work and have the lowest expenses budget of the lot of them? I just think he'd a bit too hippy for his own good,

If only there was a website that placed details of MPs' expenses at your fingertips...

You could then discover that comment is b*ll*cks.

[Kent Border Kenny]

hidetheelephants said:

Not that there are many libraries left to work in; successive governments have either actively conspired against them or passively allowed councils to cheesepare funding and close them.

Which is a real shame. I spent a huge amount of time in the local library as a child, first of all reading the story books, then moving on to the scientific encyclopaedias, browsing atlases, and just working my way through anything that I could get my hands on.

I know that we have the internet here, but it’s not the same.

There is an absolutely wonderful library near my home on the continent, and I enjoyed taking my little boy there when we were still able to travel.