45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. Vol 3
Discussion
A large number of Americans are Irish. After the famine in the mid C19 there were decades of mass emigration from Ireland to the USA and Canada and elsewhere. Boston has more ethnically Irish people than Ireland has. Irish citizenship can be transmitted from one generation to another endlessly, so long as each child born outside Ireland is registered back home ("home" is what many diaspora Irish will call Ireland, even if they never go there).
Similar patterns can be observed with American Poles, Norwegians, Swedes, Germans, Italians, you name it. President Trump should be made to walk slowly around the superb and moving exhibition about US immigration at Ellis Island in New York Harbour. The US is the paradigm example of a nation of immigrants.
Trump should also read the poem inscribed at the base of the Statue of Liberty -
Similar patterns can be observed with American Poles, Norwegians, Swedes, Germans, Italians, you name it. President Trump should be made to walk slowly around the superb and moving exhibition about US immigration at Ellis Island in New York Harbour. The US is the paradigm example of a nation of immigrants.
Trump should also read the poem inscribed at the base of the Statue of Liberty -
The US said:
The New Colossus
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
MOTHER OF EXILES. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
Emma Lazarus (1849–1887) Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
MOTHER OF EXILES. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
I've never quite grasped the American fascination with their antecedents. I'm from an Irish family & was born & raised in England, a fact that has been questioned by a few of the more challenged NP&E fraternity, yet have never identified myself as Irish-English & have never met anyone in this country in all my years who does this.
Yet in America, it's ingrained although waning according to census data. At which point do you identify as an American? Second generation? Third? Fourth? Tenth? It's a paradox that the flag should be so collectively venerated yet significant swathes of people be so tribal in their outlook around what essentially amounts to an accident at birth.
Yet in America, it's ingrained although waning according to census data. At which point do you identify as an American? Second generation? Third? Fourth? Tenth? It's a paradox that the flag should be so collectively venerated yet significant swathes of people be so tribal in their outlook around what essentially amounts to an accident at birth.
It is a distinctly American thing, and much to do with the history of America, a young country built on migration; although I add that as as a British born Irish dude with both passports I self identify as Irish-British. I acknowledge both bits of me, but when push comes to shove put Irish above British. Thus I fail the Tebbit cricket test and am probably an enemy of the people for the purpose of NPE threads about identity politics (ie all NPE threads).
Thinking about that more for a minute, one of the reasons why America is so fascinating is that it could be a model for the perfect nation - ie one made up of a mix of people from all backgrounds, united by a constitutional commitment to just government and unburdened by monarchy, religion, and such like remnants of the Old World. Sadly, that is not how it has panned out. America was consciously designed to be the Shining City on a Hill*, but, it isn't. Maybe it still can be. Obama thought so, but eight years is too short a term to build the City.
PS: American history is one reason why I am a Euro-Federalist (the other main reason being European history). Do the USA again, but this time get it right. This will never happen, of course.
* Flawed from the outset, of course, as based on dispossession of the natives, and burdened by slave owning.
PS: American history is one reason why I am a Euro-Federalist (the other main reason being European history). Do the USA again, but this time get it right. This will never happen, of course.
* Flawed from the outset, of course, as based on dispossession of the natives, and burdened by slave owning.
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 4th November 09:08
I thought it was designed by the landed gentry that did not like the rules from the old country.
Not really read a lot on it, it is on my roundtoit.
Went to an interesting out door museum somewhere in Canada, near Vancouver I think. 200 years of history, I go to St Fagans near Cardiff and stick another 200 and some on that number.
However, what struck me at that outdoor museum was we are looking at European history. (early 80s so probably changed a tad now).
Not really read a lot on it, it is on my roundtoit.
Went to an interesting out door museum somewhere in Canada, near Vancouver I think. 200 years of history, I go to St Fagans near Cardiff and stick another 200 and some on that number.
However, what struck me at that outdoor museum was we are looking at European history. (early 80s so probably changed a tad now).
Breadvan72 said:
It is a distinctly American thing, and much to do with the history of America, a young country built on migration; although I add that as as a British born Irish dude with both passports I self identify as Irish-British. I acknowledge both bits of me, but when push comes to shove put Irish above British. Thus I fail the Tebbit cricket test and am probably an enemy of the people for the purpose of NPE threads about identity politics (ie all NPE threads).
What do you think of all those Irish cricketeers playing for England?jmorgan said:
I thought it was designed by the landed gentry that did not like the rules from the old country.
There is a lot in that. Many of the Colonial rebels were not at all radical and indeed objected to some modernising aspects of British policy. But the big thinkers amongst the framers of the Constitution also had some high ideals, based on thinky stuff circulating in Britain and France since the C17 - Locke, Montesquieu, Rousseau, Paine and so on. Carter Page has admitted to the House Intelligence Committee that he met with Russian Officials, despite previously denying it multiple times, so thats now Carter Page, Clovis, Papadopoulos, Trump Jr all lied about meetings.
Remember the Steele dossier said: July 2016: Trump advisor Carter Page holds secret meetings in Moscow with Sechin and senior Kremlin Internal Affairs official, Divyekin.
Every man for themselves?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/source-who-is-being-e...
So who's next for indictment? Flynn, Carter Page, Clovis, Trumps attorney Cohen, Felix Slater, Kushner, Trump Jr
Remember the Steele dossier said: July 2016: Trump advisor Carter Page holds secret meetings in Moscow with Sechin and senior Kremlin Internal Affairs official, Divyekin.
Every man for themselves?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/source-who-is-being-e...
So who's next for indictment? Flynn, Carter Page, Clovis, Trumps attorney Cohen, Felix Slater, Kushner, Trump Jr
But... but.... killary.....
Edit. sorry, he was on CH4 news last night.
https://www.channel4.com/news/carter-page-allegati...
Edit. sorry, he was on CH4 news last night.
https://www.channel4.com/news/carter-page-allegati...
Edited by jmorgan on Saturday 4th November 09:33
MAGA really means MAWA to many of Trump’s support base.
Of course, America was never “white” anyway, but it was white owned and white dominated (after those pesky original inhabitants were subjugated of course).
All that Trump is in terms of being president is based upon prejudice and racism, whether it is overt or not. Dress it up anyway you like, his core support fear their racial superiority and thus power and influence is being eroded. This is what he really tapped into at the most fundamental level.
Trump legitimises these feelings, and for the first time in generations, actually encourages and endorses them. That he comes after the country’s first black president is not really surprising either given the above.
Obama showed that being white in the US did not automatically guarantee you power and superiority, and that was extremely uncomfortable for Trump’s base. The constant attacks from Trump on his predecessor are music to his supporters ears, because they attempt to demean and devalue the significance of the election of a black, highly regarded and popular president.
To Trump’s base, Obama needs to be viewed by history as an anomaly- an experiment that didn’t work and demonstrates why white men (and not women either) really must stay in charge.
Trump attacks Obama because it is exactly what his base want to hear. Every time he does it, they like it. They like it because Obama is black.
Hopefully Trump represents the last gasp of a societal sickness that will pass, he is in many ways a dinosaur that represents an America long gone that only really exists in the imagination of a generation of poor and middle class white folk who think Happy Days was reality TV.
I believe history will view Trump as the anomaly- the worst and most unsuited person to ever hold the office of President. It would be good for the country if he ended his office impeached and.in total ignominy.
Of course, America was never “white” anyway, but it was white owned and white dominated (after those pesky original inhabitants were subjugated of course).
All that Trump is in terms of being president is based upon prejudice and racism, whether it is overt or not. Dress it up anyway you like, his core support fear their racial superiority and thus power and influence is being eroded. This is what he really tapped into at the most fundamental level.
Trump legitimises these feelings, and for the first time in generations, actually encourages and endorses them. That he comes after the country’s first black president is not really surprising either given the above.
Obama showed that being white in the US did not automatically guarantee you power and superiority, and that was extremely uncomfortable for Trump’s base. The constant attacks from Trump on his predecessor are music to his supporters ears, because they attempt to demean and devalue the significance of the election of a black, highly regarded and popular president.
To Trump’s base, Obama needs to be viewed by history as an anomaly- an experiment that didn’t work and demonstrates why white men (and not women either) really must stay in charge.
Trump attacks Obama because it is exactly what his base want to hear. Every time he does it, they like it. They like it because Obama is black.
Hopefully Trump represents the last gasp of a societal sickness that will pass, he is in many ways a dinosaur that represents an America long gone that only really exists in the imagination of a generation of poor and middle class white folk who think Happy Days was reality TV.
I believe history will view Trump as the anomaly- the worst and most unsuited person to ever hold the office of President. It would be good for the country if he ended his office impeached and.in total ignominy.
Edited by TheFlyingBanana on Saturday 4th November 09:49
Not-The-Messiah said:
Colonial said:
Not-The-Messiah said:
Pocahontas was a historical hero sambo or subu are or can be derogatory terms. It's more like going "Martin Luther king here" not "sambo here".
Do you refer to every Chinese woman you see as Mulan?Because I think that's the same problem that Trump has. He says stupid things as if they're acceptable and he doesn't seem to have that filter that most self respecting people do that stops them saying stupid twuntish things.
TheFlyingBanana said:
MAGA really means MAWA to many of Trump’s support base.
Of course, America was never “white” anyway, but it was white owned and white dominated (after those pesky original inhabitants were subjugated of course).
All that Trump is in terms of being president is based upon prejudice and racism, whether it is overt or not. Dress it up anyway you like, his core support fear their racial superiority and thus power and influence is being eroded. This is what he really tapped into at the most fundamental level.
Trump legitimises these feelings, and for the first time in generations, actually encourages and endorses them. That he comes after the country’s first black president is not really surprising either given the above.
Obama showed that being white in the US did not automatically guarantee you power and superiority, and that was extremely uncomfortable for Trump’s base. The constant attacks from Trump on his predecessor are music to his supporters ears, because they attempt to demean and devalue the significance of the election of a black, highly regarded and popular president.
To Trump’s base, Obama needs to be viewed by history as an anomaly- an experiment that didn’t work and demonstrates why white men (and not women either) really must stay in charge.
Trump attacks Obama because it is exactly what his base want to hear. Every time he does it, they like it. They like it because Obama is black.
Hopefully Trump represents the last gasp of a societal sickness that will pass, he is in many ways a dinosaur that represents an America long gone that only really exists in the imagination of a generation of poor and middle class white folk who think Happy Days was reality TV.
I believe history will view Trump as the anomaly- the worst and most unsuited person to ever hold the office of President. It would be good for the country if he ended his office impeached and.in total ignominy.
That is an excellent post. Of course, America was never “white” anyway, but it was white owned and white dominated (after those pesky original inhabitants were subjugated of course).
All that Trump is in terms of being president is based upon prejudice and racism, whether it is overt or not. Dress it up anyway you like, his core support fear their racial superiority and thus power and influence is being eroded. This is what he really tapped into at the most fundamental level.
Trump legitimises these feelings, and for the first time in generations, actually encourages and endorses them. That he comes after the country’s first black president is not really surprising either given the above.
Obama showed that being white in the US did not automatically guarantee you power and superiority, and that was extremely uncomfortable for Trump’s base. The constant attacks from Trump on his predecessor are music to his supporters ears, because they attempt to demean and devalue the significance of the election of a black, highly regarded and popular president.
To Trump’s base, Obama needs to be viewed by history as an anomaly- an experiment that didn’t work and demonstrates why white men (and not women either) really must stay in charge.
Trump attacks Obama because it is exactly what his base want to hear. Every time he does it, they like it. They like it because Obama is black.
Hopefully Trump represents the last gasp of a societal sickness that will pass, he is in many ways a dinosaur that represents an America long gone that only really exists in the imagination of a generation of poor and middle class white folk who think Happy Days was reality TV.
I believe history will view Trump as the anomaly- the worst and most unsuited person to ever hold the office of President. It would be good for the country if he ended his office impeached and.in total ignominy.
Edited by TheFlyingBanana on Saturday 4th November 09:49
Ructions said:
TheFlyingBanana said:
MAGA really means MAWA to many of Trump’s support base.
Of course, America was never “white” anyway, but it was white owned and white dominated (after those pesky original inhabitants were subjugated of course).
All that Trump is in terms of being president is based upon prejudice and racism, whether it is overt or not. Dress it up anyway you like, his core support fear their racial superiority and thus power and influence is being eroded. This is what he really tapped into at the most fundamental level.
Trump legitimises these feelings, and for the first time in generations, actually encourages and endorses them. That he comes after the country’s first black president is not really surprising either given the above.
Obama showed that being white in the US did not automatically guarantee you power and superiority, and that was extremely uncomfortable for Trump’s base. The constant attacks from Trump on his predecessor are music to his supporters ears, because they attempt to demean and devalue the significance of the election of a black, highly regarded and popular president.
To Trump’s base, Obama needs to be viewed by history as an anomaly- an experiment that didn’t work and demonstrates why white men (and not women either) really must stay in charge.
Trump attacks Obama because it is exactly what his base want to hear. Every time he does it, they like it. They like it because Obama is black.
Hopefully Trump represents the last gasp of a societal sickness that will pass, he is in many ways a dinosaur that represents an America long gone that only really exists in the imagination of a generation of poor and middle class white folk who think Happy Days was reality TV.
I believe history will view Trump as the anomaly- the worst and most unsuited person to ever hold the office of President. It would be good for the country if he ended his office impeached and.in total ignominy.
That is an excellent post. Of course, America was never “white” anyway, but it was white owned and white dominated (after those pesky original inhabitants were subjugated of course).
All that Trump is in terms of being president is based upon prejudice and racism, whether it is overt or not. Dress it up anyway you like, his core support fear their racial superiority and thus power and influence is being eroded. This is what he really tapped into at the most fundamental level.
Trump legitimises these feelings, and for the first time in generations, actually encourages and endorses them. That he comes after the country’s first black president is not really surprising either given the above.
Obama showed that being white in the US did not automatically guarantee you power and superiority, and that was extremely uncomfortable for Trump’s base. The constant attacks from Trump on his predecessor are music to his supporters ears, because they attempt to demean and devalue the significance of the election of a black, highly regarded and popular president.
To Trump’s base, Obama needs to be viewed by history as an anomaly- an experiment that didn’t work and demonstrates why white men (and not women either) really must stay in charge.
Trump attacks Obama because it is exactly what his base want to hear. Every time he does it, they like it. They like it because Obama is black.
Hopefully Trump represents the last gasp of a societal sickness that will pass, he is in many ways a dinosaur that represents an America long gone that only really exists in the imagination of a generation of poor and middle class white folk who think Happy Days was reality TV.
I believe history will view Trump as the anomaly- the worst and most unsuited person to ever hold the office of President. It would be good for the country if he ended his office impeached and.in total ignominy.
Edited by TheFlyingBanana on Saturday 4th November 09:49
Ivankas lost her appeal? Not many turned up to the event, which the Whitehouse claimed was due to over zealous security delaying people getting in, and that it was the most registered event, the biggest numbers...
But the guardian said noone was waiting, there were no queues and people were shuffled to the front by ushers
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/03/em...
But the guardian said noone was waiting, there were no queues and people were shuffled to the front by ushers
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/03/em...
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff