45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. Vol 3
Discussion
Robertj21a said:
Quite agree, definitely a +1 from me.
Ditto. I think that despite current blips such as Trump and Brexit and so on, the overall direction of travel is still forwards and not backwards, but there are dips as well as rises.A friend was recently bewailing the continued success of of reactionary and hatey politics, but I pointed out that 1000 years ago every Government on the planet was a tyranny and now most or at least lots aren't, and that almost every woman was pretty much a slave but now most or at least lots aren't. Not reasons for complacency, but a bit of cautious optimism may still be warranted.
Breadvan72 said:
Robertj21a said:
Quite agree, definitely a +1 from me.
Ditto. I think that despite current blips such as Trump and Brexit and so on, the overall direction of travel is still forwards and not backwards, but there are dips as well as rises.TheFlyingBanana said:
I believe history will view Trump as the anomaly- the worst and most unsuited person to ever hold the office of President. It would be good for the country if he ended his office impeached and.in total ignominy.
It won't though, he'll resign before that, he has a history of walking away. Also he can say he was forced out of office unfairly, it wasn't his fault, it was all fake news and his base will believe it
Breadvan72 said:
Robertj21a said:
Quite agree, definitely a +1 from me.
Ditto. I think that despite current blips such as Trump and Brexit and so on, the overall direction of travel is still forwards and not backwards, but there are dips as well as rises.A friend was recently bewailing the continued success of of reactionary and hatey politics, but I pointed out that 1000 years ago every Government on the planet was a tyranny and now most or at least lots aren't, and that almost every woman was pretty much a slave but now most or at least lots aren't. Not reasons for complacency, but a bit of cautious optimism may still be warranted.
Breadvan72 said:
* Flawed from the outset, of course, as based on dispossession of the natives..
Pirsig interestingly drew the conclusion that modern American culture was a melding of Native American and European values; "The western movie was another example of this change, showing Indian values which had become cowboy values which had
become 20th century all-American values. Everyone knew the cowboys of the silver screen had little to do with their actual
counterparts, but it didn’t matter. It was the values, not the historical accuracy that counted."
The use of the term 'Pocahontas' was childish at best, but a bit of name calling -> labelling -> dividing -> prejudice -> dismissal. He didn't think it through in those terms I'm sure, he is naturally gifted in this sort of intuition...
And yes, nice post FlyingBanoony, indeed a fitting climax for such a rich soap opera is the metaphorical shooting of JR.
Eddie Strohacker said:
I've never quite grasped the American fascination with their antecedents. I'm from an Irish family & was born & raised in England, a fact that has been questioned by a few of the more challenged NP&E fraternity, yet have never identified myself as Irish-English & have never met anyone in this country in all my years who does this.
Yet in America, it's ingrained although waning according to census data. At which point do you identify as an American? Second generation? Third? Fourth? Tenth? It's a paradox that the flag should be so collectively venerated yet significant swathes of people be so tribal in their outlook around what essentially amounts to an accident at birth.
Yet in America, it's ingrained although waning according to census data. At which point do you identify as an American? Second generation? Third? Fourth? Tenth? It's a paradox that the flag should be so collectively venerated yet significant swathes of people be so tribal in their outlook around what essentially amounts to an accident at birth.
Breadvan72 said:
It is a distinctly American thing, and much to do with the history of America, a young country built on migration; although I add that as as a British born Irish dude with both passports I self identify as Irish-British. I acknowledge both bits of me, but when push comes to shove put Irish above British. Thus I fail the Tebbit cricket test and am probably an enemy of the people for the purpose of NPE threads about identity politics (ie all NPE threads).
I find it interesting, in that Australia is very much an immigrant nation, probably more so than the US, and yet there doesn't seem to be the same self-imposed "I'm Irish / British / Italian / Whatever". It seems to take about 2 or 3 generations at most before it dies away.The suburb I live in has a high proportion of ethnic Chinese : my wife says she's often the only Gwailo on the bus.
Before that it was largely Dutch, and before that Greek.
AW111 said:
I find it interesting, in that Australia is very much an immigrant nation, probably more so than the US, and yet there doesn't seem to be the same self-imposed "I'm Irish / British / Italian / Whatever". It seems to take about 2 or 3 generations at most before it dies away.
The suburb I live in has a high proportion of ethnic Chinese : my wife says she's often the only Gwailo on the bus.
Before that it was largely Dutch, and before that Greek.
I was just about to post the same. The suburb I live in has a high proportion of ethnic Chinese : my wife says she's often the only Gwailo on the bus.
Before that it was largely Dutch, and before that Greek.
A lot of the bushrangers in the 19th century were Irish and identified as striking a blow against the English. But they grew out of it.
As you say, by the 2nd, 3rd generation at most, most just say they are f
ken' Aussie. Byker28i said:
TheFlyingBanana said:
I believe history will view Trump as the anomaly- the worst and most unsuited person to ever hold the office of President. It would be good for the country if he ended his office impeached and.in total ignominy.
It won't though, he'll resign before that, he has a history of walking away. Also he can say he was forced out of office unfairly, it wasn't his fault, it was all fake news and his base will believe itIf he is impeached there is a good chance his supporters could end up going for someone worse.
If you look at his policy's they are generally mild. They are just blown out of proportion by the hysterical left media. Like everything he says and does is.
This mission to get him removed from office is another short sighted policy just like most of the political policy's these days.
We all know that in general politics naturally swings from right to left over time like a pendulum. And ideally you want it to stay at the bottom (the center) bobbing slightly from side to side. The problem is over the past few decades it's been slowly dragged to the left the entire pendulum it's self as been shifted. And it's now trying to swing back a bit. But some are hanging on for dear life to stop it and are actually trying to pull it higher and higher to the left. There's only one thing that's going to happen.
Also, what has NTM got against apostrophes? He must be one of the major apostrophe abusers in a crowded NPE field.
Seriously, correct usage of the apostrophe is a thing that takes approximately three seconds to learn. It is hard to take seriously stuff posted by people who cannot bother to spend those three seconds.
Seriously, correct usage of the apostrophe is a thing that takes approximately three seconds to learn. It is hard to take seriously stuff posted by people who cannot bother to spend those three seconds.
Not-The-Messiah said:
If you look at his policy's they are generally mild.
Generally mild...Mr Trump initially promised to ban all Muslims entering the US - a "total and complete" shutdown should remain until the US authorities "can figure out what's going on but he switched to "extreme vetting" after he became the party's presidential candidate.
Taking a look at his 100 day plan could be considered mild
https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/_landings/contract...
Right up until you examine his tweets, or his fundraising rallies for his lawyer fees when he flies completely off the wall, threatening other nations with military action, encouraging police to treat suspects roughly, opening his mouth and affecting trails such as "Sgt. Bergdahl, who’s a traitor, a no-good traitor, who should have been executed", "NYC terrorist was happy as he asked to hang ISIS flag in his hospital room. He killed 8 people, badly injured 12. SHOULD GET DEATH PENALTY!"
So yes, if he kept his mouth shut and just got on with the work, there probably wouldn't be as many complaints. You have a discussion on the points of the plans, such as his budget not reducing the deficit, creating jobs etc.
Instead he still panders to his white nationalist racist base appealing to those who will give him 'likes'. Rather sounds like he's compensating for mommy and daddy not giving him love and attention
Not-The-Messiah said:
Byker28i said:
TheFlyingBanana said:
I believe history will view Trump as the anomaly- the worst and most unsuited person to ever hold the office of President. It would be good for the country if he ended his office impeached and.in total ignominy.
It won't though, he'll resign before that, he has a history of walking away. Also he can say he was forced out of office unfairly, it wasn't his fault, it was all fake news and his base will believe itIf he is impeached there is a good chance his supporters could end up going for someone worse.
If you look at his policy's they are generally mild. They are just blown out of proportion by the hysterical left media. Like everything he says and does is.
This mission to get him removed from office is another short sighted policy just like most of the political policy's these days.
We all know that in general politics naturally swings from right to left over time like a pendulum. And ideally you want it to stay at the bottom (the center) bobbing slightly from side to side. The problem is over the past few decades it's been slowly dragged to the left the entire pendulum it's self as been shifted. And it's now trying to swing back a bit. But some are hanging on for dear life to stop it and are actually trying to pull it higher and higher to the left. There's only one thing that's going to happen.
Not sure which way the "mission" will go but do we let politicos off the hook when they are naughty? Looking at the paperwork for Manafort, he is not exactly going to bring Trump down but the alleged goings on certainly have legal and financial peeps interested. Bit like saying to our MP's, "yeah, go on, this one time we will let you off" for some rather interesting lead swinging on the company credit card just in case they upset the PM?
TheFlyingBanana said:
MAGA really means MAWA to many of Trump’s support base.
Of course, America was never “white” anyway, but it was white owned and white dominated (after those pesky original inhabitants were subjugated of course).
All that Trump is in terms of being president is based upon prejudice and racism, whether it is overt or not. Dress it up anyway you like, his core support fear their racial superiority and thus power and influence is being eroded. This is what he really tapped into at the most fundamental level.
Please example why this fear they have in wrong or what they are doing is wrong. Not in a wishy-washy hold hand and hug a tree emotional sort of way. But in evolutionary, psychological, sociological factual way. Of course, America was never “white” anyway, but it was white owned and white dominated (after those pesky original inhabitants were subjugated of course).
All that Trump is in terms of being president is based upon prejudice and racism, whether it is overt or not. Dress it up anyway you like, his core support fear their racial superiority and thus power and influence is being eroded. This is what he really tapped into at the most fundamental level.
There seems to be a way of thinking that these basic biological, evolutionary principles can some how be ignored.
The idea that someone or a group of people have power, wealth, land, entitlement will simply give this up without a fight because someone comes along and says it's not fair and nice that you have these things. It brakes many of these fundamental principles.
Not-The-Messiah said:
And they will blame the media and the democrats for fighting him all the way. There will be no lesson learned. If he was just allowed to do his thing and given balanced fair coverage. If at the end he fails which most on here think he will then he has no one to blame.
If he is impeached there is a good chance his supporters could end up going for someone worse.
If you look at his policy's they are generally mild. They are just blown out of proportion by the hysterical left media. Like everything he says and does is.
This mission to get him removed from office is another short sighted policy just like most of the political policy's these days.
We all know that in general politics naturally swings from right to left over time like a pendulum. And ideally you want it to stay at the bottom (the center) bobbing slightly from side to side. The problem is over the past few decades it's been slowly dragged to the left the entire pendulum it's self as been shifted. And it's now trying to swing back a bit. But some are hanging on for dear life to stop it and are actually trying to pull it higher and higher to the left. There's only one thing that's going to happen.
The fact you think policies that would build a wall between two nations, stop migration based on religious belief and removing healthcare are mild says more about you than an imagined media bias towards an established media figure.If he is impeached there is a good chance his supporters could end up going for someone worse.
If you look at his policy's they are generally mild. They are just blown out of proportion by the hysterical left media. Like everything he says and does is.
This mission to get him removed from office is another short sighted policy just like most of the political policy's these days.
We all know that in general politics naturally swings from right to left over time like a pendulum. And ideally you want it to stay at the bottom (the center) bobbing slightly from side to side. The problem is over the past few decades it's been slowly dragged to the left the entire pendulum it's self as been shifted. And it's now trying to swing back a bit. But some are hanging on for dear life to stop it and are actually trying to pull it higher and higher to the left. There's only one thing that's going to happen.
Not-The-Messiah said:
The idea that someone or a group of people have power, wealth, land, entitlement will simply give this up without a fight because someone comes along and says it's not fair and nice that you have these things. It brakes many of these fundamental principles.
Breaks FFS!!!Not-The-Messiah said:
We all know that in general politics naturally swings from right to left over time like a pendulum. And ideally you want it to stay at the bottom (the center) bobbing slightly from side to side. The problem is over the past few decades it's been slowly dragged to the left the entire pendulum it's self as been shifted. And it's now trying to swing back a bit. But some are hanging on for dear life to stop it and are actually trying to pull it higher and higher to the left. There's only one thing that's going to happen.
Sticking with the analogy, I would suggest that the metaphorical pendulum has been moving to the left for considerably longer than the past few decades, and that it might alternatively be described as ‘progress’.
Things like universal suffrage, The Health and Safety at Work Act, and (dare I say it) the European Court of Human Rights, are a few examples of moving the pendulum to the left. I would say that these are generally good things. There are flaws in each, but in my eyes the benefits to society are pretty clear.
What would you suggest is necessary to move the pendulum back to the right?
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