CV19 - Cure Worse Than The Disease? (Vol 19)

[r3g]

The cognitive dissonance is strong here today. Poor Nelly still wondering when people are going to stop squeezing past her in the room, trying to ignore her and pretend she's not there.

[jameswills]

The Selfish Gene said:

100% agree with this. My life has been transformed for the better since I realised how this played out. There was a time, when I felt literally like the rug had been pulled out from my understanding of life. Like the feeling you get when you step off a step without knowing it was there.

Now though, fk me I feel enlightened, and my healthy distrust of authority has now become an unwillingness to comply with anything, unless I can see , personally the clear evidence of the need for it.

That's a very fine free place to live, and my children get the benefit too.

I had never been able to put my finger on why I’ve felt a bit uneasy about the World since about 2008, sort of put that to the back of mind for a decade and then this nonsense did as you say feel like a rug was pulled and I needed to find some answers. I’ve recommended it on here, but Mattias Desmet book on Totalitarianism was the start, and his ideas on “free floating anxiety” were the key but I have never really totally understood it until now. I was anxious, but with no obvious cause during this time, then you realise it’s the “state” and the daily distractive bullst they feed you and control you with which was the “enemy” I had to face in order to rid myself of that anxiety.

[jameswills]

Hants PHer said:

It's worth highlighting the limitation of this study, namely that it was conducted using descriptive statistics from official sources and has not been clinically validated. The authors also suggest that further analytical statistics study by vaccination status is needed.

This merely confirms two things that I've said all along.

First, that we cannot be sure whether increased deaths are caused by pandemic restrictions, the virus itself, vaccines or some other factor. Perhaps a combination of these things. That is why further analysis is needed, as this study suggests.

Second - and following on from the first - that to assert, with no proof, that the vaccines are responsible, is unscientific and lazy. All we can say is that the vaccines might be linked to excess deaths, or they might not. We don't know for sure. Well, unless you agree with r3g who, it seems, is sure. But his position is, I believe, somewhat unhinged.

I’d love to see the working out on how a sudden increase in cancers and heart problems, and sudden deaths in the younger age groups that all came about from 2021 onwards could be anything else other than the “vaccines”. Which are known to cause cancers and heart problems. The AZ vaccine has been pulled from everywhere, yet there’s still a book out about how good it is and the woman behind it still has her Damehood.

At some point start joining the very large dots right in front of your eyes.

[Boringvolvodriver]

B'stard Child said:

alangla said:

Hants PHer said:

It's worth highlighting the limitation of this study, namely that it was conducted using descriptive statistics from official sources and has not been clinically validated. The authors also suggest that further analytical statistics study by vaccination status is needed.

This merely confirms two things that I've said all along.

First, that we cannot be sure whether increased deaths are caused by pandemic restrictions, the virus itself, vaccines or some other factor. Perhaps a combination of these things. That is why further analysis is needed, as this study suggests.

Second - and following on from the first - that to assert, with no proof, that the vaccines are responsible, is unscientific and lazy. All we can say is that the vaccines might be linked to excess deaths, or they might not. We don't know for sure. Well, unless you agree with r3g who, it seems, is sure. But his position is, I believe, somewhat unhinged.

I think this is the key issue for me at the moment in terms of the health aspects of pandemic recovery. It’s clear that something is going on that’s causing the elevated levels of deaths etc, but no-one seems to be sure what it is and there’s not been much noise that I’ve noticed about large scale studies in academia to find out what that is. The vacuum that’s left is then easily filled with all sorts of claims about “it’s the vaccines” “it’s the Tories mismanaging the health service” “it’s Brexit causing shortages of staff” “it’s lockdown related backlogs” etc. One would think that finding out what was going on would be key and the apparent lack of urgency then allows for various other theories about political and pharmaceutical vested interests in not finding out. Even if there’s nothing suspect going on & it’s purely down to after effects of infection, we kind of need to find out.

Its that lack of urgency to investigate anything and the apparent radio silence towards any voices raising concerns that worry me.

However it is accepted norm in governement that you never hold an enquiry into something where you don't know the outcome in advance.

Agree with all of these points and the aspect of an inquiry is pertinent.

There have been claims made about the excess deaths saying words to the effect of “we don’t know what is causing them although it definitely isn’t the vaccine” - that doesn’t help convince me that the vaccine sin’t maybe playing a part.

If it isn’t the vaccine then just show us the data to prove that claim rather than hide it or say we have the data but will only release it to the manufacturers……….

[Ari]

alangla said:

I think this is the key issue for me at the moment in terms of the health aspects of pandemic recovery. It’s clear that something is going on that’s causing the elevated levels of deaths etc, but no-one seems to be sure what it is and there’s not been much noise that I’ve noticed about large scale studies in academia to find out what that is. The vacuum that’s left is then easily filled with all sorts of claims about “it’s the vaccines” “it’s the Tories mismanaging the health service” “it’s Brexit causing shortages of staff” “it’s lockdown related backlogs” etc. One would think that finding out what was going on would be key and the apparent lack of urgency then allows for various other theories about political and pharmaceutical vested interests in not finding out. Even if there’s nothing suspect going on & it’s purely down to after effects of infection, we kind of need to find out.

This is absolutely key. When you consider just how VERY VERY important it was that the country knew exactly what excess death numbers were during the pandemic, to the point of daily briefings by the PM, the contrast to the current situation of excess deaths is, to put it very politely, startling, and it does beg the question, why is that?

[Ari]

r3g said:

The cognitive dissonance is strong here today. Poor Nelly still wondering when people are going to stop squeezing past her in the room, trying to ignore her and pretend she's not there.

So to be clear, you give absolutely no credence whatsoever to the other possibilities?

And presumably the irony is lost on you that this is precisely what you're complaining about (that people are not considering the possibility that it's the vaccine)?

Unless, of course, you have proof that it is the vaccine, in which case perhaps you could share it with us?

[r3g]

Ari said:

r3g said:

The cognitive dissonance is strong here today. Poor Nelly still wondering when people are going to stop squeezing past her in the room, trying to ignore her and pretend she's not there.

So to be clear, you give absolutely no credence whatsoever to the other possibilities?

And presumably the irony is lost on you that this is precisely what you're complaining about (that people are not considering the possibility that it's the vaccine)?

Unless, of course, you have proof that it is the vaccine, in which case perhaps you could share it with us?

Because it's so fking blindingly obvious! See James' post above from an hour ago. He puts it more succinctly than me.

I do realise that the sleeve-rollers desperately want the growing evidence to be untrue and remain in denial because the worry of what's potentially instore for them fills them with dread. That is understandable, but ignoring the matter and trying to dream up ridiculous explanations is not going to make it go away, nor are repetitve screams of people being unhinged for posting in-depth medical studies where the link between the covaids jabs and cancer has basically been proven 99%.

My prediction is this time next year it will be common knowledge and everyone will be talking about it like it was never in doubt. Much the same as what happened with the mask efficacy.

[fat80b]

jameswills said:

I’d love to see the working out on how a sudden increase in cancers and heart problems, and sudden deaths in the younger age groups that all came about from 2021 onwards could be anything else other than the “vaccines”. Which are known to cause cancers and heart problems. The AZ vaccine has been pulled from everywhere, yet there’s still a book out about how good it is and the woman behind it still has her Damehood.

At some point start joining the very large dots right in front of your eyes.

There's a bit of a leap there - Yes it could be vaccine related as we vaccinated nearly everyone in this country so we don't have a control group.
But could it not also be covid itself related (in the case of MC); Or could it be partially due to enough people delaying getting checked out through fear of going to the doctors etc (in the case of cancer).


I don't know, but is there a country / community that we can compare with to give some correlation data. i.e. there must be countries in the world with a similar covid infection rate that did not vaccinate in the same way that we did - what does that difference look like ? Presumably there are some pretty decent papers on this kind of analysis now (not that I've ever seen them).

(p.s. just asking the obvious question)

[The Selfish Gene]

I'm not sure we did vaccinate nearly everyone in the country - I suspect strongly - many many many people stayed the silent majority as usual, and simply didn't do it.

I'd say 50% of the people I know personally didn't get any vaccine for C19

[HTP99]

The Selfish Gene said:

I'm not sure we did vaccinate nearly everyone in the country - I suspect strongly - many many many people stayed the silent majority as usual, and simply didn't do it.

I'd say 50% of the people I know personally didn't get any vaccine for C19

I don't know many who didn't have at least their first 2, myself and the wife were very late to having ours and only had them as we were planning on travelling (we didn't go in the end), I was even questioned when I had my second as to why I had them both late, I told him it was none of his business.

I know for sure my eldest and her boyfriend didn't have any of the vaccines and my young colleague didn't have hers, she didn't work for us at the time but we often chat about the madness of it all, she is German and actually had a fake vaccine pass so that she could visit family back in Germany during the madness.

I had the first 2, my wife had the first 2 and a booster, she had the booster as we were travelling I didn't have mine as the timings worked for me as I was out of sync with her, I think at point of travelling I was 10 days away from needing it, however when my QR code was scanned in Spain, the woman did seem perplexed that I hadn't had it.

Everyone at work had theirs with many discussions about it all, I just kept quiet when the subject came up and tended to wander away when the subject came up, all the boosters were discussed too. My immediate manager still has his boosters, he's classed as at risk, the last booster he had, he made a big thing of telling everyone he was off to get his.

[r3g]

fat80b said:

jameswills said:

I’d love to see the working out on how a sudden increase in cancers and heart problems, and sudden deaths in the younger age groups that all came about from 2021 onwards could be anything else other than the “vaccines”. Which are known to cause cancers and heart problems. The AZ vaccine has been pulled from everywhere, yet there’s still a book out about how good it is and the woman behind it still has her Damehood.

At some point start joining the very large dots right in front of your eyes.

There's a bit of a leap there - Yes it could be vaccine related as we vaccinated nearly everyone in this country so we don't have a control group.
But could it not also be covid itself related (in the case of MC); Or could it be partially due to enough people delaying getting checked out through fear of going to the doctors etc (in the case of cancer).


I don't know, but is there a country / community that we can compare with to give some correlation data. i.e. there must be countries in the world with a similar covid infection rate that did not vaccinate in the same way that we did - what does that difference look like ? Presumably there are some pretty decent papers on this kind of analysis now (not that I've ever seen them).

(p.s. just asking the obvious question)

I posted links a few months back from a group of oncologists who had gone on record to speak out about the explosion in new aggressive "turbo" cancers that they were seeing in the vaccinated but as usual, everyone shot it down as CT wibble and got all bent out of shape because of the use of the word "turbo" rather than address any of the actual content and evidence therein.

It's shaping up to be a repeat of the myocarditis story :

Early days, everyone in denial : "dangerous far right-wing pro-gun anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorists claim that vaccines are causing myocarditis. FACT CHECK: there is no evidence whatsoever and the vaccines are 100% safe and effective."

6 months later : "very rare chance that the vaccines could cause myocarditis but the vaccines are still safe and effective"

A year later : "yes, the vaccines do cause myocarditis and you could die soon, but they are still safer and effectiver vs the deadly virus"

2 years later : "everyone knew right from the start that the vaccines caused myocarditis, blood clots and strokes, nobody ever said they didn't!"

It would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

[J210]

Dr. Hanna Nohynek of The Finnish Institute for Health and Welfare and sits as the WHO’s chair of Strategic Group of Experts on immunization said that in Summer of 2021 the Finnish Institute for Health knew the vaccines did not stop transmission and she advised against vaccine passports.

Yet not long after the EU pushed ahead with EU Digital COVID Certificate Regulation and ignored her advise....

Thread about it here: https://x.com/thackerpd/status/1778751276378931327

[Hants PHer]

jameswills said:

I’d love to see the working out on how a sudden increase in cancers and heart problems, and sudden deaths in the younger age groups that all came about from 2021 onwards could be anything else other than the “vaccines”. Which are known to cause cancers and heart problems. The AZ vaccine has been pulled from everywhere, yet there’s still a book out about how good it is and the woman behind it still has her Damehood.

At some point start joining the very large dots right in front of your eyes.

You're falling in to the same trap as r3g: you both say, in effect "Well, it just HAS to be the vaccines! What else could it be?" That is an unscientific and lazy approach to the question, and one that promotes correlation over causation.

If you're going to make an assertion then you should be able to back up that assertion with evidence. Properly reviewed evidence that actually proves a link between cancers and Covid vaccines. Earlier today, someone posted an article quoting a Japanese study as 'evidence'. Except the study in question had not been reviewed, and actually concluded there 'might' be a link but that further study was needed. Hardly a smoking gun!

With all due respect, you and r3g have got nothing, and you both know it. "Join the very large dots"........

[B'stard Child]

fat80b said:

jameswills said:

I’d love to see the working out on how a sudden increase in cancers and heart problems, and sudden deaths in the younger age groups that all came about from 2021 onwards could be anything else other than the “vaccines”. Which are known to cause cancers and heart problems. The AZ vaccine has been pulled from everywhere, yet there’s still a book out about how good it is and the woman behind it still has her Damehood.

At some point start joining the very large dots right in front of your eyes.

There's a bit of a leap there - Yes it could be vaccine related as we vaccinated nearly everyone in this country so we don't have a control group.

Of course we have a control group - the 10% who didn’t have a vaccine not because they were antivax (I don’t accept that not having a vaccine makes you antivax)

Those that didn’t need a vaccine because they’d already recovered from covid (despite the speed of the vaccine development and roll out there are a lot of people in that group)

Those that had concerns at the pace of the roll out and the scope creep that resulted (15m jabs to freedom - no sorry 30m - oh hang on 45m - nope lets do everyone)

The fact that the government didn’t appear to want one is also a bloody worry too

The fact that those in the control group of the pharma trials also ended up taking the vaccine too also is a bloody worry

In fact everything about the covid saga is a bloody worry because virtually every sensible plan got flushed down the loo and those in power or positions to influence decided to make it up as they went along

Now for the government to say “hey all you people who didn’t roll up your sleeves for the greater good of all like we asked you to do - I know we called you a lot of nasty words and put a lot of pressure to fall into line but would mind awfully being a control group for us”

Oh yeah I can see that happening

[jameswills]

Hants PHer said:

You're falling in to the same trap as r3g: you both say, in effect "Well, it just HAS to be the vaccines! What else could it be?" That is an unscientific and lazy approach to the question, and one that promotes correlation over causation.

If you're going to make an assertion then you should be able to back up that assertion with evidence. Properly reviewed evidence that actually proves a link between cancers and Covid vaccines. Earlier today, someone posted an article quoting a Japanese study as 'evidence'. Except the study in question had not been reviewed, and actually concluded there 'might' be a link but that further study was needed. Hardly a smoking gun!

With all due respect, you and r3g have got nothing, and you both know it. "Join the very large dots"........

This was talked about way before the “vaccine” injuries even came to fruition about the risk of mRNA technology and what it hadn’t managed to do any trials, ie be safe for human consumption. I personally don’t need any smoking gun study, I’ve just been observing and listening for nearly 5 years on this, but in all honesty, all you have to do is do a very unscientific look back and do a tot up of how many young (under 50) people used to die suddenly, have strokes, footballers and other sports people collapsing, quick cancers etc etc that were reported pre 2021 you will start to feel something really isn’t right. And you can hypothesise that it could be something else rather than an untested novel drug and technology mass produced very quickly and delivered to all people with gay abandon, I will stick with the obvious.

[Yahonza]

There is no systematic evidence base at all to support (mRNA) vaccines causing cancer. But there is a fair bit of evidence that lockdown(s) delayed screening and treatment for various types of cancers, along with other conditions. That is not to say that vaccines are 100% safe either - such as thing doesn't exist.

[r3g]

jameswills said:

Hants PHer said:

You're falling in to the same trap as r3g: you both say, in effect "Well, it just HAS to be the vaccines! What else could it be?" That is an unscientific and lazy approach to the question, and one that promotes correlation over causation.

If you're going to make an assertion then you should be able to back up that assertion with evidence. Properly reviewed evidence that actually proves a link between cancers and Covid vaccines. Earlier today, someone posted an article quoting a Japanese study as 'evidence'. Except the study in question had not been reviewed, and actually concluded there 'might' be a link but that further study was needed. Hardly a smoking gun!

With all due respect, you and r3g have got nothing, and you both know it. "Join the very large dots"........

This was talked about way before the “vaccine” injuries even came to fruition about the risk of mRNA technology and what it hadn’t managed to do any trials, ie be safe for human consumption. I personally don’t need any smoking gun study, I’ve just been observing and listening for nearly 5 years on this, but in all honesty, all you have to do is do a very unscientific look back and do a tot up of how many young (under 50) people used to die suddenly, have strokes, footballers and other sports people collapsing, quick cancers etc etc that were reported pre 2021 you will start to feel something really isn’t right. And you can hypothesise that it could be something else rather than an untested novel drug and technology mass produced very quickly and delivered to all people with gay abandon, I will stick with the obvious.

These people are beyond hope, James. Zero critical thought process and unable to function without a Big Pharma-funded "fact checker" site telling them what to believe. The blunt truth of the matter is until they see a "fact check" site or the BBC telling them that the vaccines cause cancer they will continue in denial that it's all just a massive far rignt-wing anti-vaxxer conspiracy theory and every death since 2021 from blood clots, heart attacks, myocarditis, pericarditis, Guillain-Barré syndrome, cancer is down to cancelled NHS appointments.

[Boringvolvodriver]

r3g said:

These people are beyond hope, James. Zero critical thought process and unable to function without a Big Pharma-funded "fact checker" site telling them what to believe. The blunt truth of the matter is until they see a "fact check" site or the BBC telling them that the vaccines cause cancer they will continue in denial that it's all just a massive far rignt-wing anti-vaxxer conspiracy theory and every death since 2021 from blood clots, heart attacks, myocarditis, pericarditis, Guillain-Barré syndrome, cancer is down to cancelled NHS appointments.

Although you are also taking a very one sided view by saying that it is definitely the vaccine when the evidence doesn’t entirely point that way.

I am not saying that the vaccine is playing a part because I am sure it is, especially since the lack of evidence to say it definitely isn’t the vaccine either is rather short on the ground. Which does make me just a tad suspicious.

I don’t believe the fact checkers any more than I believe the media and government so take a balanced view that says there are a number of possible causes, of which the vaccine is certainly one.

Being an extremist in saying it is definitely the vaccine doesn’t help the cause in my opinión and May lead to people ignoring the issue as “just another conspiracy theorist”.

I hope that in time the truth will come out although I don’t think it will be in my lifetime (I am 64 btw)

[PRTVR]

Yahonza said:

There is no systematic evidence base at all to support (mRNA) vaccines causing cancer. But there is a fair bit of evidence that lockdown(s) delayed screening and treatment for various types of cancers, along with other conditions. That is not to say that vaccines are 100% safe either - such as thing doesn't exist.

That's not what my wife's cancer specialist is saying, they are snowed under and there is a delay in treatment,, my wife has cancer a friend's wife has cancer my niece has cancer, all just coincide?

[jameswills]

r3g said:

These people are beyond hope, James. Zero critical thought process and unable to function without a Big Pharma-funded "fact checker" site telling them what to believe. The blunt truth of the matter is until they see a "fact check" site or the BBC telling them that the vaccines cause cancer they will continue in denial that it's all just a massive far rignt-wing anti-vaxxer conspiracy theory and every death since 2021 from blood clots, heart attacks, myocarditis, pericarditis, Guillain-Barré syndrome, cancer is down to cancelled NHS appointments.

I tend to not be too harsh on people despite the slurs that get thrown at you. The me 5 years ago would probably think I’m a bit of a crazy person now! The propaganda and mind control stuff that we have all be subjected too has been relentless and pretty hard core.

Just one final musing on this vaccine point though, why are people defending the “vaccines” so vehemently, because if it is causing the sudden uptick in health problems, surely the easiest thing to do would be to stop and investigate, and could mean an immediate reversal of the problem. Why not start with that premise anyway and say ban it for 3 years, see what happens? Logically sound idea to me.