US Riots

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Discussion

TheDrBrian

5,444 posts

224 months

Monday 13th July 2020
quotequote all
zygalski said:
Where did I accuse him of being one?

I'm just a bit surprised about the whole BLM being a front for the Communist Party theory. It's not a view held by the majority of people I would think & sounds like another alt-right conspiracy theory.

Anyway, can we get back to discussing about how oppressed us white middle class men are.
zygalski said:
GroundZero said:
zygalski said:
Would you say you're a teensy-weensy bit right wing?
I'm just getting that vibe.
Is that a problem for you?
Would you like me to be 'shut down', "deplatformed", "silenced" for not holding a far left view?
It depends. I'd rather not converse with a rabid racist though.
That's implying he's a racist.

105.4

4,173 posts

73 months

Monday 13th July 2020
quotequote all
zygalski said:
Bit patronising to dismiss the global black population as being part of a commie conspiracy, but hey - this is PH. So boxes ticked, job jobbed, move on etc...
Just out of curiosity, why do you do that?

How many, (to use that dreadful phrase), PoC do you think actually support many of the aims of BLM?

Abolish the Police?
Abolish the Courts?
Abolish the Prison Estate?
Trans-rights?
Abolish capitalism?

It seems to me that many of these ‘demands’ of BLM go against what the Caribbean, Asian, African, Persian, Arab and Oriental communities traditionally stand for.

And that’s before we get into the predominantly white BLM rioters, sorry, peaceful protesters, going into black neighbourhoods and burning the place to the ground. How progressive.

The way you describe things, one could be forgiven for thinking that every single non-white person in the world gives their full support to BLM. I suspect that the opposite is true.

Now, what you’ve done there, (and I suspect that you already know what you’ve done), is use the well worn tactic of accusing, or at least strongly suggesting, that anyone who voices even the slightest critique of BLM polices or tactics is instantly a racist in order to try and shame them into not questioning ever again. Such attempts to shame don’t work with me.

Is that the sort of world that you want to live in? A world where you simply must show your unwavering support of those who shout the loudest without being able to disagree or even question their aims?

If that makes me a racist, then so be it. I’m a racist. So is my Wife, our mixed race daughter and all but one of our non-white friends. Non of them support BLM, ergo, they are all racist, right?

Frankly I’m stunned at how much support BLM has managed to garner without the majority of people scratching ever so slightly below the surface to see what BLM is really about. Racial inequality has simply been a tool, a blunt instrument to be used to help further a far more sinister ideology which won’t benefit 99% of us.

So, let me ask you, do you support the demands of BLM? All that question requires from you is a simply “yes” or “no” reply.

biggbn

24,052 posts

222 months

Monday 13th July 2020
quotequote all
105.4 said:
zygalski said:
Bit patronising to dismiss the global black population as being part of a commie conspiracy, but hey - this is PH. So boxes ticked, job jobbed, move on etc...
Just out of curiosity, why do you do that?

How many, (to use that dreadful phrase), PoC do you think actually support many of the aims of BLM?

Abolish the Police?
Abolish the Courts?
Abolish the Prison Estate?
Trans-rights?
Abolish capitalism?

It seems to me that many of these ‘demands’ of BLM go against what the Caribbean, Asian, African, Persian, Arab and Oriental communities traditionally stand for.

And that’s before we get into the predominantly white BLM rioters, sorry, peaceful protesters, going into black neighbourhoods and burning the place to the ground. How progressive.

The way you describe things, one could be forgiven for thinking that every single non-white person in the world gives their full support to BLM. I suspect that the opposite is true.

Now, what you’ve done there, (and I suspect that you already know what you’ve done), is use the well worn tactic of accusing, or at least strongly suggesting, that anyone who voices even the slightest critique of BLM polices or tactics is instantly a racist in order to try and shame them into not questioning ever again. Such attempts to shame don’t work with me.

Is that the sort of world that you want to live in? A world where you simply must show your unwavering support of those who shout the loudest without being able to disagree or even question their aims?

If that makes me a racist, then so be it. I’m a racist. So is my Wife, our mixed race daughter and all but one of our non-white friends. Non of them support BLM, ergo, they are all racist, right?

Frankly I’m stunned at how much support BLM has managed to garner without the majority of people scratching ever so slightly below the surface to see what BLM is really about. Racial inequality has simply been a tool, a blunt instrument to be used to help further a far more sinister ideology which won’t benefit 99% of us.

So, let me ask you, do you support the demands of BLM? All that question requires from you is a simply “yes” or “no” reply.
Interesting. Do you think BLM just want to abolish those things and live in an anarchic society with no policing? Or perhaps do they mean abolish the police, court and prison services as they stand in Anerica and rebuild them without the institutionalised racism and sense of entitlement? Capitalism has brought huge divides in society when it is left unfettered, and yes, it has brought about some wondrous changes, but is the master/slave relationship or pimp/prostitute one not a tangible, physical representation of what is wrong with it, the commodification and to an extent fetishisation of the worker for the edification of the capitalist (this is recent history mind, fairly open wound), so i can understand the rallying around an outdated emancipatory theory that promotes violent struggle to take control , note, not take back control, for it was never owned nor ceded, but to gain some control. What is wrong with trans rights?

Please note, I am not in favour of the above, but I can understand why it may seem like a favourable aim when you are a second class citizen in a 'civilised ' world and you are looking for a broad strokes easy fix (something that won't happen)

So, in answer to your points...

In America,
Abolish and rebuild institutionally racist police, courts and prisons? If those allegatuons are true, yes I'm happy with that.

Trans rights? Yes, I'm happy with that,

Abolish capitalism as it in America? Yes, but not to replace it with a creaky ideology that relies on violence to gain control, but a top down shake up that ensures better conditions, health care, housing, jobs, education etc.. for ALL rather than the divisive system foisted upon the American public. Yup, I can roll with that.


Jesus, I must be some sort of freakin communist!!

rodericb

6,836 posts

128 months

Tuesday 14th July 2020
quotequote all
zygalski said:
GroundZero said:
zygalski said:
Would you say you're a teensy-weensy bit right wing?
I'm just getting that vibe.
Is that a problem for you?
Would you like me to be 'shut down', "deplatformed", "silenced" for not holding a far left view?
It depends. I'd rather not converse with a rabid racist though.
Haha, and here is an example of the method which GroundZero is talking about....!

rodericb

6,836 posts

128 months

Tuesday 14th July 2020
quotequote all
biggbn said:
Jesus, I must be some sort of freakin communist!!
As there's a very vocal minority who want to go full-tilt on these concepts they effectively poison those concepts. There would be people who would like to see the USA go through the Russian revolution. They'd love to see plutocrats and the capitalist establishment destroyed and their goodies "redistributed" to "those who deserve it". Historic says that this usually doesn't turn out well except for those who are close to and are no threat to "power". Every ideology has it's dirty little secrets. Do you stick with the one you know or go for the unknown?

jimPH

3,981 posts

82 months

Tuesday 14th July 2020
quotequote all
BLM is very unique in that it has a massive support base, by people who appear to be unaware of who they actually are.

If you asked most people whether they supported a Marxist organisation intent on destroying Western capitalism, they would say no. But all support BLM.

Very odd.

Digga

40,511 posts

285 months

Tuesday 14th July 2020
quotequote all
jimPH said:
BLM is very unique in that it has a massive support base, by people who appear to be unaware of who they actually are.

If you asked most people whether they supported a Marxist organisation intent on destroying Western capitalism, they would say no. But all support BLM.

Very odd.
Trojan Horse.

The same with the Climate Clan (a.k.a. Extinction Rebellion); you hijack or attack to a very worthy cause and move it, from within, to suit your own goals.

Racism is disgusting and abhorrent, a change is needed, but there is a reason BLM are not the panacea. When even the BBC acknowledge this hijacking, it is fair to say the fact is established.

Smiler.

11,752 posts

232 months

Tuesday 14th July 2020
quotequote all
rodericb said:
zygalski said:
GroundZero said:
zygalski said:
Would you say you're a teensy-weensy bit right wing?
I'm just getting that vibe.
Is that a problem for you?
Would you like me to be 'shut down', "deplatformed", "silenced" for not holding a far left view?
It depends. I'd rather not converse with a rabid racist though.
Haha, and here is an example of the method which GroundZero is talking about....!
Straight out of the Owen Jones Little Red Book of Debating Skillz

All gone a bit quite in here today. Quelle surprise.

zygalski

7,759 posts

147 months

Tuesday 14th July 2020
quotequote all
Apparently the word 'depends' has morphed overnight into meaning I accuse you in no uncertain terms of....
Must check my copy of the OED.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

Smiler.

11,752 posts

232 months

Tuesday 14th July 2020
quotequote all
zygalski said:
Apparently the word 'depends' has morphed overnight into meaning I accuse you in no uncertain terms of....
Must check my copy of the OED.

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
0/10

As expected though.


biggbn

24,052 posts

222 months

Tuesday 14th July 2020
quotequote all
rodericb said:
biggbn said:
Jesus, I must be some sort of freakin communist!!
As there's a very vocal minority who want to go full-tilt on these concepts they effectively poison those concepts. There would be people who would like to see the USA go through the Russian revolution. They'd love to see plutocrats and the capitalist establishment destroyed and their goodies "redistributed" to "those who deserve it". Historic says that this usually doesn't turn out well except for those who are close to and are no threat to "power". Every ideology has it's dirty little secrets. Do you stick with the one you know or go for the unknown?
The world, sadly, is full of ideologues who cannot, or will not, see past the end of their chosen ideology's nose and are destined to live a bitter life of binary opposition or agreement thus never having to expose their minds to the danger of freedom of thought.

Earthdweller

13,711 posts

128 months

Wednesday 15th July 2020
quotequote all
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/black-leaders-...

“Right now, bad guys are saying if you don’t see a blue and white you can do whatever you want.”

Tony Herbert, an activist in New York’s black community, agreed and lamented the rise in violence, criticizing New York officials for their failure to address the situation.

“The guns keep going off and now we have a 1-year-old and the blood is on the hands of the mayor and the state Legislature,” Herbert said.

“Anti-Crime’s mission was to protect New Yorkers by proactively preventing crime, especially gun violence,” Lynch said in a statement. “Shooting and murders are both climbing steadily upward, but our city leaders have decided that proactive policing isn’t a priority anymore. They chose this strategy. They will have to reckon with the consequences.”

The city’s murder rate for the month ending June 7 has more than doubled from the same period last year, and shooting victims have increased by 45 percent. Meanwhile, arrests for illegal gun possession have dropped dramatically, with only 29 people arrested during the week that ended July 5, down from 70 during the same week last year, according to NYPD data.

In recent weeks, the NYPD has experienced a surge of over 400 percent in retirement applications from officers amid tensions with city officials and after the city’s police budget was slashed by $1 billion.

Dont Panic

1,389 posts

53 months

Wednesday 15th July 2020
quotequote all
Earthdweller said:
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/black-leaders-...

“Right now, bad guys are saying if you don’t see a blue and white you can do whatever you want.”

Tony Herbert, an activist in New York’s black community, agreed and lamented the rise in violence, criticizing New York officials for their failure to address the situation.

“The guns keep going off and now we have a 1-year-old and the blood is on the hands of the mayor and the state Legislature,” Herbert said.

“Anti-Crime’s mission was to protect New Yorkers by proactively preventing crime, especially gun violence,” Lynch said in a statement. “Shooting and murders are both climbing steadily upward, but our city leaders have decided that proactive policing isn’t a priority anymore. They chose this strategy. They will have to reckon with the consequences.”

The city’s murder rate for the month ending June 7 has more than doubled from the same period last year, and shooting victims have increased by 45 percent. Meanwhile, arrests for illegal gun possession have dropped dramatically, with only 29 people arrested during the week that ended July 5, down from 70 during the same week last year, according to NYPD data.

In recent weeks, the NYPD has experienced a surge of over 400 percent in retirement applications from officers amid tensions with city officials and after the city’s police budget was slashed by $1 billion.
Yep like no one could have foreseen those consequences. Madness.

Carl_Manchester

12,397 posts

264 months

Wednesday 15th July 2020
quotequote all
From CNN this morning:


R Mutt

5,893 posts

74 months

Wednesday 15th July 2020
quotequote all
I don't really understand how people can use America to highlight race issues, and extend that to the UK but then simultaneously distance themselves from any political form of BLM while still blaming the police in the exact same way and ignoring the madness going on in the States which isn't a result of police actions, rather a lack of.

Dont Panic

1,389 posts

53 months

Wednesday 15th July 2020
quotequote all
Anyone want to make an educated guess as to the racial makeup of the perpetrators of this spike in crime?

Carl_Manchester

12,397 posts

264 months

Wednesday 15th July 2020
quotequote all
Here is a brand new, two hour video discussion with six American academics on how they feel about what’s going on in the U.S.

https://youtu.be/pHGt733yw3g

It’s well worth a watch to hear their opinions, even if you can only watch it in chunks.

Gadgetmac

14,984 posts

110 months

Wednesday 15th July 2020
quotequote all
Dont Panic said:
Anyone want to make an educated guess as to the racial makeup of the perpetrators of this spike in crime?
Better yet does anyone want to make an educated guess as to the reason for the racial makeup of the perpetrators of this spike in crime....or does their colour predetermine their actions?

R Mutt

5,893 posts

74 months

Wednesday 15th July 2020
quotequote all
Gadgetmac said:
Dont Panic said:
Anyone want to make an educated guess as to the racial makeup of the perpetrators of this spike in crime?
Better yet does anyone want to make an educated guess as to the reason for the racial makeup of the perpetrators of this spike in crime....or does their colour predetermine their actions?
Where previously one could attribute street crime and subsequent negative encounters with the police to low socioeconomic status, you will have to make a rational argument for (white enforced) deprivation being the root of violent behaviour now the police are removed from the equation.

coolg

650 posts

48 months

Wednesday 15th July 2020
quotequote all
Gadgetmac said:
Dont Panic said:
Anyone want to make an educated guess as to the racial makeup of the perpetrators of this spike in crime?
Better yet does anyone want to make an educated guess as to the reason for the racial makeup of the perpetrators of this spike in crime....or does their colour predetermine their actions?
if we assume that they are mainly black;

That is either because of;

Genetics

Socio Economic factors

The whole world being racist