Miami school shooting
Discussion
Budflicker said:
Thats interesting, however it doesn't really answer the question which i asked.
What you say could apply to many things in many countries, i asked a very specific question in relation to the hysteria in ths UK over US gun laws.
I personally couldn't care less in the same way that i dont really care about gun laws in the democratic republic of Congo.
Maybe your own hyperbolic ['hysteria'] perception is what's making it unclear.What you say could apply to many things in many countries, i asked a very specific question in relation to the hysteria in ths UK over US gun laws.
I personally couldn't care less in the same way that i dont really care about gun laws in the democratic republic of Congo.
Not everyone is that bothered, for others it's an interesting discussion / problem to dissect, like many other subjects that don't directly affect us are discussed.
There's little commonality between us and the Congolese, more so between ourselves and Americans.
kainedog said:
And you can buy an assault rifle if you’re 18 but can’t buy alcohol till you’re 21. How messed up is that , not to mention massively powerful v8 cars and the straightest roads anywhere but 55mph limit ??
The 55mph limit is a relative rarity these days.On a coast to coast road trip last year (Cocoa Beach, FL to San Diego), 70 or 75mph limits were far mor prevalent. In Nevada it was 70 on single carriageways!
An idiot tried and failed miserably to blow up a plane with his shoe, the result of his actions means everyone has to take their shoes off at the airport.
Approximately 2000 people have died in the US in the first seven weeks of 2018 as a result of gun crime. The result of their actions, thoughts and prayers.
Approximately 2000 people have died in the US in the first seven weeks of 2018 as a result of gun crime. The result of their actions, thoughts and prayers.
Ructions said:
An idiot tried and failed miserably to blow up a plane with his shoe, the result of his actions means everyone has to take their shoes off at the airport.
Approximately 2000 people have died in the US in the first seven weeks of 2018 as a result of gun crime. The result of their actions, thoughts and prayers.
So what do you suggest? Confiscate all legally held guns? Approximately 2000 people have died in the US in the first seven weeks of 2018 as a result of gun crime. The result of their actions, thoughts and prayers.
Dr Jekyll said:
Ructions said:
An idiot tried and failed miserably to blow up a plane with his shoe, the result of his actions means everyone has to take their shoes off at the airport.
Approximately 2000 people have died in the US in the first seven weeks of 2018 as a result of gun crime. The result of their actions, thoughts and prayers.
So what do you suggest? Confiscate all legally held guns? Approximately 2000 people have died in the US in the first seven weeks of 2018 as a result of gun crime. The result of their actions, thoughts and prayers.
p1stonhead said:
Dr Jekyll said:
Ructions said:
An idiot tried and failed miserably to blow up a plane with his shoe, the result of his actions means everyone has to take their shoes off at the airport.
Approximately 2000 people have died in the US in the first seven weeks of 2018 as a result of gun crime. The result of their actions, thoughts and prayers.
So what do you suggest? Confiscate all legally held guns? Approximately 2000 people have died in the US in the first seven weeks of 2018 as a result of gun crime. The result of their actions, thoughts and prayers.
But if you don't know what the Americans should do about the situation, it's a bit harsh to castigate them for not doing it.
Dr Jekyll said:
Ructions said:
An idiot tried and failed miserably to blow up a plane with his shoe, the result of his actions means everyone has to take their shoes off at the airport.
Approximately 2000 people have died in the US in the first seven weeks of 2018 as a result of gun crime. The result of their actions, thoughts and prayers.
So what do you suggest? Confiscate all legally held guns? Approximately 2000 people have died in the US in the first seven weeks of 2018 as a result of gun crime. The result of their actions, thoughts and prayers.
Dr Jekyll said:
p1stonhead said:
Dr Jekyll said:
Ructions said:
An idiot tried and failed miserably to blow up a plane with his shoe, the result of his actions means everyone has to take their shoes off at the airport.
Approximately 2000 people have died in the US in the first seven weeks of 2018 as a result of gun crime. The result of their actions, thoughts and prayers.
So what do you suggest? Confiscate all legally held guns? Approximately 2000 people have died in the US in the first seven weeks of 2018 as a result of gun crime. The result of their actions, thoughts and prayers.
But if you don't know what the Americans should do about the situation, it's a bit harsh to castigate them for not doing it.
I bet 99% of people would hand them in rather than risk jail. Not everyone in the US is a gun ‘loving’ nutter. Normal people who use them for sport such as shotguns etc could still do so and ranges could be where you can play with bigger stuff.
But perhaps I underestimate how strange a lot of Americans are.
p1stonhead said:
How about yes, confiscating guns. Jail term if found with them same as here.
Well no, if you have a licence you are perfectly free to own guns here. p1stonhead said:
I bet 99% of people would hand them in rather than risk jail. Not everyone in the US is a gun ‘loving’ nutter. Normal people who use them for sport such as shotguns etc could still do so and ranges could be where you can play with bigger stuff.
But perhaps I underestimate how strange a lot of Americans are.
It's the other 1% you have to worry about. Taking guns away from anyone who isn't a nutter rather misses the point.But perhaps I underestimate how strange a lot of Americans are.
Sandy Hook should have been the straw for the camels back.
A 20 year old man with legally held weapons walks into a primary school and deliberately massacres 20 children all aged six or seven.
The additional six adults he murdered are a mass killing on their own but twenty six and seven year old boys and girls?
America's conscience and response then is the same as now, thoughts and prayers.
Thoughts and prayers for what? That is won't happen again?
It has and will happen time and time again and with increasing frequency as their society decides that their right to bear arms is far more important than the massacre of their children in their schools. To add insult to injury there are Sandy Hook conspiracy theorists that say it never happened, that it was a false flag, that it was all make believe?
To what end would anyone bother inventing a massacre of six and seven year old children when the massacre of slightly older children happens on pretty regular enough frequencies anyway?
To paraphrase one twitter poster, thoughts and prayers are all that is provided by the NRA and its supporters when the children of families are massacred and taken away, but thoughts and prayers are deemed insufficient solace for people if their guns are taken away....
A 20 year old man with legally held weapons walks into a primary school and deliberately massacres 20 children all aged six or seven.
The additional six adults he murdered are a mass killing on their own but twenty six and seven year old boys and girls?
America's conscience and response then is the same as now, thoughts and prayers.
Thoughts and prayers for what? That is won't happen again?
It has and will happen time and time again and with increasing frequency as their society decides that their right to bear arms is far more important than the massacre of their children in their schools. To add insult to injury there are Sandy Hook conspiracy theorists that say it never happened, that it was a false flag, that it was all make believe?
To what end would anyone bother inventing a massacre of six and seven year old children when the massacre of slightly older children happens on pretty regular enough frequencies anyway?
To paraphrase one twitter poster, thoughts and prayers are all that is provided by the NRA and its supporters when the children of families are massacred and taken away, but thoughts and prayers are deemed insufficient solace for people if their guns are taken away....
(A few posts up about taking weapons off people) ^ Never in a month of Sundays - how are they going to protect themselves, what about the constitution etc...
For me, i. Nationwide regulation (licencing, member of club, health check, police checks, gun dealers licenced etc) ii. Put it under the purview of Homeland Security and start to spin these incidents up with a 'terrorist' label iii. Stop NRA political contributions.
It'd be a start, but we live in a culture where sex on television is immoral and violent gunplay is lauded. Watchagonnado?
For me, i. Nationwide regulation (licencing, member of club, health check, police checks, gun dealers licenced etc) ii. Put it under the purview of Homeland Security and start to spin these incidents up with a 'terrorist' label iii. Stop NRA political contributions.
It'd be a start, but we live in a culture where sex on television is immoral and violent gunplay is lauded. Watchagonnado?
No one seems to be asking why this kid did this, just looking for reasons why he was somehow not to blame because of mental issues or hard home life.
However, photos like this tell me he has something to say. This was his FB profile photo.
Also, that he didn't shoot himself also shows me he thinks he has something to live for, something to say....
Has anyone asked him why? He seemed to have done lots of preplanning, which also doesn't show that it was a spur of the moment breakdown.
However, photos like this tell me he has something to say. This was his FB profile photo.
Also, that he didn't shoot himself also shows me he thinks he has something to live for, something to say....
Has anyone asked him why? He seemed to have done lots of preplanning, which also doesn't show that it was a spur of the moment breakdown.
AreOut said:
he is obviously mentally ill, likely wanted to attract attention without realising the consequences
the question is why FBI/police didn't react, those who were informed and didn't react should also end up in jail and that should greatly reduce the chances of this happening again
Yes the FBI is going to have to look again at itself. Hard to believe they weren't on him. the question is why FBI/police didn't react, those who were informed and didn't react should also end up in jail and that should greatly reduce the chances of this happening again
However, just saying 'obviously mentally ill' doesn't cut it for me as the end of the line of enquiry. Millions of people have mental issues and don't go on killing sprees. In fact it's a bit of an insult to the many people that have mental illnesses to say that this is justification enough for what he did.
p1stonhead said:
How about yes, confiscating guns. Jail term if found with them same as here.
I bet 99% of people would hand them in rather than risk jail. Not everyone in the US is a gun ‘loving’ nutter. Normal people who use them for sport such as shotguns etc could still do so and ranges could be where you can play with bigger stuff.
But perhaps I underestimate how strange a lot of Americans are.
There is no simple answer to the gun problem in the US. A blanket ban would not work and would be unenforceable and you would be even more foolish than them to think anyone would consider it. The best that you can hope for is that they as a society take a look at their relationship, as a nation, with firearms and their right to bear arms etc. The rest of us have moved quietly into the 21st century but many of them seem to be stuck in the wild west and nothing we can say or do from this side of the Atlantic will ever change this. Maybe they don't want to change, when you see the attitudes of some of the survivors, young people who have just come through a very traumatic event saying that the answer is more guns, teachers with better guns etc, then you have to wonder, maybe there is no hope. Certainly no real hope under the current administration.I bet 99% of people would hand them in rather than risk jail. Not everyone in the US is a gun ‘loving’ nutter. Normal people who use them for sport such as shotguns etc could still do so and ranges could be where you can play with bigger stuff.
But perhaps I underestimate how strange a lot of Americans are.
TTmonkey said:
In fact it's a bit of an insult to the many people that have mental illnesses to say that this is justification enough for what he did.
Quite, and are we to write off most single murders as being down to being 'mentally ill'; it's a nice get out when you can't grasp the nettle of gun control, but ultimately leads no where.Dr Jekyll said:
So what do you suggest? Confiscate all legally held guns?
Amend the Constitution to remove the 2nd Amendment.Change the law so it is illegal to own most types of gun beyond a certain size and use.
Change the law to remove CCW and open-carry in public.
Change the law to introduce heavy prison time for anyone found carrying a gun in public.
Gun amnesty with a buyback system funded by the government.
Stringent background checks like the UK including personal references, medical checks and firearms need.
This will obviously not remove the guns of gangbangers, criminals or people who don't want to turn them in, but it's a long game which would span multiple generations. I would hazard a guess that the proportion of people who buy a gun for "home defence" and actually use it for that purpose in anger is absolutely tiny, so the whole "but criminals will still have guns and I will be unarmed" thing goes out the window.
All this is perfectly theoretically possible but would need a huge amount of public opinion, time, money and political will, none of which the USA is prepared to give. You could never introduce the restrictions above with the current American mindset. So nothing will change and the supposedly most advanced country on earth will continue to lose innocent kids to mass shootings every year.
Nanook said:
There's a few issues with that. One being that you cannot 'delete' or 'remove' amendments, as I understand it. You can only add more.
Secondly, the proportion of people that need to use their gun to defend their property is very low. But if the criminals and gangbangers know that you don't have a gun in the house, and as you've suggested, it would be very hard to remove all guns from circulation, especially when so many are unregistered and owned illegally, then they're more likely to come in to your house, and there's not going to be much you can do about it.
They absolutely need to do something, but it's not just as simple as "ban guns, make it illegal to own one"
There are just too many of them in circulation, and too many Americans that really do believe it's a god given right to
own an AR-15, that just aren't going to give it up that easily.
Yeah, I completely get that. I think you can change the Constitution through Article 5 but I'm not an expert, I seem to recall the proposed repeals/amendments have to go before all the states for ratification.Secondly, the proportion of people that need to use their gun to defend their property is very low. But if the criminals and gangbangers know that you don't have a gun in the house, and as you've suggested, it would be very hard to remove all guns from circulation, especially when so many are unregistered and owned illegally, then they're more likely to come in to your house, and there's not going to be much you can do about it.
They absolutely need to do something, but it's not just as simple as "ban guns, make it illegal to own one"
There are just too many of them in circulation, and too many Americans that really do believe it's a god given right to
own an AR-15, that just aren't going to give it up that easily.
Sadly as I said I don't think it will ever change, they are totally screwed
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff