**** boiling Orange Order
Discussion
ApexJimi said:
In extremis, both sides are very much as bad as the other, no doubt about that.
While I agree with the overall sentiment of what you say Greig, I don't think banning is the answer, mainly due to the underlying tensions and the fact that a blanket ban would inevitably fuel the fire.
Solving the issue of sectarianism in Scotland, as you say, starts with the abolition of segregated Protestant and Roman Catholic schools, beyond that, it is a long road leading to change at an ideological and educational level, which would hopefully filter down through the coming generations.
What that doesn't solve, however, is the passing of such ideology (in many cases, misguided) from father to son, and so forth. On that issue, assuming the above took effect, it would take at least a couple of generations before any real change was evident.
I completely agree, but had we started this 30 years ago I think the west of scotland would be a significantly different place to what it is now - it will take time, but it would have an effect.While I agree with the overall sentiment of what you say Greig, I don't think banning is the answer, mainly due to the underlying tensions and the fact that a blanket ban would inevitably fuel the fire.
Solving the issue of sectarianism in Scotland, as you say, starts with the abolition of segregated Protestant and Roman Catholic schools, beyond that, it is a long road leading to change at an ideological and educational level, which would hopefully filter down through the coming generations.
What that doesn't solve, however, is the passing of such ideology (in many cases, misguided) from father to son, and so forth. On that issue, assuming the above took effect, it would take at least a couple of generations before any real change was evident.
Edited by ApexJimi on Sunday 3rd July 00:53
As a further point to how weak our politicians are - why in (state funded) Catholic schools is it acceptable to refuse employment to non-catholic teachers? Surely this is religious discrimination at its finest, but is allowed to go without mention (or at least if you mention it you are accused of having a "side").
the ones out on the streets?There's a lot of misinformed and misplaced bitterness in this thread...
The Orange Order in NI is a very different organisation to that in Scotland. Yes, it's an organisation that isn't open to Catholics but in NI it's very much a religious organisation, far removed from the overt sectarian hatred that is associated with its membership in Scotland, something I've always found both amusing and embarrassing. Amusing and embarrassing for the same reasons I think, the Jocks don't have to live with the realities of their silly bitterness every day so seem to think they can be more vocal about it when given the opportunity.
Please don't associate the hangers-on with the Orange Order, they aren't members but think following behind shouting abuse at people makes them good loyalists. They're every bit as much an annoyance to the Orange as they are to you, more so in fact, the Orange incorrectly comes to be equated with the drunken violence, that's not what it's about and public opinion is low... as this thread demonstrates.
The Orange Order in NI is a very different organisation to that in Scotland. Yes, it's an organisation that isn't open to Catholics but in NI it's very much a religious organisation, far removed from the overt sectarian hatred that is associated with its membership in Scotland, something I've always found both amusing and embarrassing. Amusing and embarrassing for the same reasons I think, the Jocks don't have to live with the realities of their silly bitterness every day so seem to think they can be more vocal about it when given the opportunity.
Please don't associate the hangers-on with the Orange Order, they aren't members but think following behind shouting abuse at people makes them good loyalists. They're every bit as much an annoyance to the Orange as they are to you, more so in fact, the Orange incorrectly comes to be equated with the drunken violence, that's not what it's about and public opinion is low... as this thread demonstrates.
Countdown said:
Papa Hotel
What does the "marching" signify in religious terms? I thought it was military triumphalism ?
Of course it is.What does the "marching" signify in religious terms? I thought it was military triumphalism ?
Why did the march arranged by an Orange Lodge near here stop outside the house of the only Catholic family in that town and play for 10 minutes? Was it so that they could enjoy the music? Or was it to deliberately seperate them and intimidate them? Whatever the reason, it wasn't out of a sense of trying to reduce the ill feelings between the two "sides."
That is the action of scumbags.
You might be fine upstanding citizens in every other way, but still the Orange Order chooses to march and gives the mouth breathers and scum that PH mentions an excuse to act in the way they do.
Why do the Orange order still march? What's the point of it? It's the most visible symbol of sectarianism and to my eyes it shouldn't be banned, the Orange order should be man enough to work out what their actions help perpetuate and stop it themselves.
Seriously, this is the 21st century I think there are worryingly large sections of the British populace that need to grow up and stop acting in such a pathetic manner.
IforB said:
Caulkhead said:
Oh yeah, ban them. That's the answer for sure. Banning things absolutely always works doesn't it?
A civilised society shouldn't need to ban them. It should be unacceptable for orgainsations like the Orange Lodges and other similar orgainsations that breed intolerance (and anyone who says that this isn't the case is a blindfolded moron. I know many who are members of this erstwile organisation and every one of them might appear to be normal, but put them in front of an old firm game or somewhere where someone starts singing the sash and their true colours come out soon enough.)I make my feelings clear enough and it's ruined more than one good friendship. Sectarianism is a cancer anywhere, but particularly in Scotland and N.I. When I moved up here I didn't believe it existed in the way it does.
It's vile, sickening and yes, it should be banned. Rangers and Celtic should be banned from playing eachother for 10 years. That way Scotland might have a chance of dragging itself out of the dark ages when it comes to relationships between different religions.
There's also the fact that both teams are utterly awful anyway and the fact that they are the best that Scotland has just shows the appalling state of Scottish football.
I've lost track of the number of times I've been asked which school I went to, what team I support or anyother such stupid questions designed solely to work out whether I'm Protestant or Catholic. Mind you, when I answer that I attended Our Sainted Mother of King Billy's Synagogue, it usually fries their meagre brains.
Edited by IforB on Sunday 3rd July 00:34
The Orange Order in Ulster is, largely made up of fools like Sportka unfortunately.
They perpetuate history as being the excuse to march 'down the Queen's Highway'. No, it's the 21st Century and what you are doing in marching is intimidation and incitement.
The whole idea of moving forward is not what religion your next door neighbour is, or what school you go to. It's about being adults and learning to play nicely together.
Banning the Order is not the answer, it's a dinosaur and should be left to die.
For proper bigotry, try the 'Royal' Black Preceptory! Uses the 'Royal' prefix, but has no connection whatsoever to monarchy or any valid reason to use the title.
http://www.royalblack.org/index.html
They perpetuate history as being the excuse to march 'down the Queen's Highway'. No, it's the 21st Century and what you are doing in marching is intimidation and incitement.
The whole idea of moving forward is not what religion your next door neighbour is, or what school you go to. It's about being adults and learning to play nicely together.
Banning the Order is not the answer, it's a dinosaur and should be left to die.
For proper bigotry, try the 'Royal' Black Preceptory! Uses the 'Royal' prefix, but has no connection whatsoever to monarchy or any valid reason to use the title.
http://www.royalblack.org/index.html
Tyre Smoke said:
The Orange Order in Ulster is, largely made up of fools like Sportka unfortunately.
sportka1 said:
oh i should maybe point out at this stage that i am NOT a orangeman or do i enjoy watching them march.
you assume i am a member of the orange order when i have already said i am not, but i do think that a legal orginization has the right of the land to parade.
yes thats right they have as much right to parade as the likes of the boy scouts with the laws of this country.
sportka1 said:
yes thats right they have as much right to parade as the likes of the boy scouts with the laws of this country.
Having a right to do something doesn't mean you don't have to be a full on retard to do it. These lot are on par with the Muslims who protest funerals of British soldiers in many ways.There are a lot of thugs and morons in the orange these days Im afraid. It really is damaging and I hate seeing it. Many are still very respectable and they need to get a better grip on the ones causing trouble for their own sake. though it does seem to be getting a bit better in most places, some of the Lodges are pretty much entirely made up of wannabe hard men. Others are far more respectable.
A parade can be very annoying especially if they are antagonising people which does happen but less so these days. I believe the lodges in Glasgow are really bad for the s
t stirring but dont tar them all with the same brush. Usually most of them arent too disruptive though and are over fairly quickly, the on in Bangor the other night really didnt cause much hassle and didnt pass many houses, same as the ones through Ards and Donaghadee. The larger ones I can see how they justify the animosity generated as they are a disruption and do leave a mess. (Chavs arent very tidy people.)
AS for marching having no place in society? Well neither does speaking Irish along with many other things, should that be banned because it upsets some people also? No. Should the nationalist parades also be banned? No.
Like it or not it is part of my heritage and the heritage of the majority of the population in Northern Ireland and we are supposedly a democracy. The parades commission and PSNI are doing a good job though, there are a few areas where I dont think they should march at all but I also think the BBC and quite a lot of media outlets are doing a half assed hatchet job on them. Theres a few "nationalist" areas they march through which are nothing of the sort and only attract rhetoric to further politicians and community leaders and "rent-a-mobs" for a good old fashioned fight.
The parades also tend to draw out a lot of chavs basically as well as the decent people, when the said chavs get drunk and start acting the maggot that's when trouble starts.
The riots in East Belfast on the 1st werent organised, the parade wasn't meant to cause too much trouble or disruption. It was drunken ringpieces kicking off because they are well hard men innit.
For their to be peace in NI both sides need to learn to respect each other but I fear theres enough aholes wanting to cause trouble that there will be bother the next few weeks. Going around slagging of the Unionists for everything they do based on a few people while sucking off the nationalists at every possible time doesnt help things. Many many Unionists I know feel very demonised and its winding them up.
some of the bands though are absolutely brilliant, real dedication and talent and many keep the kids who have a pretty st lifestyle to be honest off the streats and out of too much trouble. When a kid grows up in an estate and has no real authority figure, the discipline learned in the band can be a good thing. Same as the many boxing clubs in nationalist areas, the kids involved in something tend not to get in too much trouble.
Course when there is trouble its usually founded on lots of drinking.
Theres still no need for the Orange Halls to have been set on fire and the one burned out the other day. How is that not going to antagonise the Orange Order and make them want revenge?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-1398...
Have to say as well that there have been a few more Orange halls vandalised and a few that have been set on fire recently that have been on local news and in the papers but no stories on BBC.
Its not helping ease any tensions is it?
Dont forget in the Orange hall in many small communities it hosts all kinds of things, even Irish lessons in some, youth groups, maths and English classes. It really is more of a community centre than anything else. Attacks on the halls arent attacks on the building it people view it as an attack on their community and traditions, as silly as they may be.
A parade can be very annoying especially if they are antagonising people which does happen but less so these days. I believe the lodges in Glasgow are really bad for the s
t stirring but dont tar them all with the same brush. Usually most of them arent too disruptive though and are over fairly quickly, the on in Bangor the other night really didnt cause much hassle and didnt pass many houses, same as the ones through Ards and Donaghadee. The larger ones I can see how they justify the animosity generated as they are a disruption and do leave a mess. (Chavs arent very tidy people.)AS for marching having no place in society? Well neither does speaking Irish along with many other things, should that be banned because it upsets some people also? No. Should the nationalist parades also be banned? No.
Like it or not it is part of my heritage and the heritage of the majority of the population in Northern Ireland and we are supposedly a democracy. The parades commission and PSNI are doing a good job though, there are a few areas where I dont think they should march at all but I also think the BBC and quite a lot of media outlets are doing a half assed hatchet job on them. Theres a few "nationalist" areas they march through which are nothing of the sort and only attract rhetoric to further politicians and community leaders and "rent-a-mobs" for a good old fashioned fight.
The parades also tend to draw out a lot of chavs basically as well as the decent people, when the said chavs get drunk and start acting the maggot that's when trouble starts.
The riots in East Belfast on the 1st werent organised, the parade wasn't meant to cause too much trouble or disruption. It was drunken ringpieces kicking off because they are well hard men innit.
For their to be peace in NI both sides need to learn to respect each other but I fear theres enough a
holes wanting to cause trouble that there will be bother the next few weeks. Going around slagging of the Unionists for everything they do based on a few people while sucking off the nationalists at every possible time doesnt help things. Many many Unionists I know feel very demonised and its winding them up.some of the bands though are absolutely brilliant, real dedication and talent and many keep the kids who have a pretty s
t lifestyle to be honest off the streats and out of too much trouble. When a kid grows up in an estate and has no real authority figure, the discipline learned in the band can be a good thing. Same as the many boxing clubs in nationalist areas, the kids involved in something tend not to get in too much trouble. Course when there is trouble its usually founded on lots of drinking.
Theres still no need for the Orange Halls to have been set on fire and the one burned out the other day. How is that not going to antagonise the Orange Order and make them want revenge?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-1398...
Have to say as well that there have been a few more Orange halls vandalised and a few that have been set on fire recently that have been on local news and in the papers but no stories on BBC.
Its not helping ease any tensions is it?
Dont forget in the Orange hall in many small communities it hosts all kinds of things, even Irish lessons in some, youth groups, maths and English classes. It really is more of a community centre than anything else. Attacks on the halls arent attacks on the building it people view it as an attack on their community and traditions, as silly as they may be.
sportka1 said:
Tyre Smoke said:
The Orange Order in Ulster is, largely made up of fools like Sportka unfortunately.
sportka1 said:
oh i should maybe point out at this stage that i am NOT a orangeman or do i enjoy watching them march.
you assume i am a member of the orange order when i have already said i am not, but i do think that a legal orginization has the right of the land to parade.
yes thats right they have as much right to parade as the likes of the boy scouts with the laws of this country.
Too many of your view left in Ulster for my liking. You display a biggoted view in my opinion, suggesting that the Order has a right to march down roads that years ago were occupied by the protestants, now occupied by catholics and if you don't like it, don't move into the area. Have you any idea how much of a cock you make yourself look? You might be fine in East Belfast or the Shankill, but I suspect you are more likely to come from Craigavon. You are a sad minority, getting smaller in an insignificant part of the United Kingdom, that, given the chance, the mainland would have hived off to Dublin years ago had it not been for PIRA.
Mr Dave said:
There are a lot of thugs and morons in the orange these days Im afraid. It really is damaging and I hate seeing it. Many are still very respectable and they need to get a better grip on the ones causing trouble for their own sake. though it does seem to be getting a bit better in most places, some of the Lodges are pretty much entirely made up of wannabe hard men. Others are far more respectable.
A parade can be very annoying especially if they are antagonising people which does happen but less so these days. I believe the lodges in Glasgow are really bad for the st stirring but dont tar them all with the same brush. Usually most of them arent too disruptive though and are over fairly quickly, the on in Bangor the other night really didnt cause much hassle and didnt pass many houses, same as the ones through Ards and Donaghadee. The larger ones I can see how they justify the animosity generated as they are a disruption and do leave a mess. (Chavs arent very tidy people.)
AS for marching having no place in society? Well neither does speaking Irish along with many other things, should that be banned because it upsets some people also? No. Should the nationalist parades also be banned? No.
Like it or not it is part of my heritage and the heritage of the majority of the population in Northern Ireland and we are supposedly a democracy. The parades commission and PSNI are doing a good job though, there are a few areas where I dont think they should march at all but I also think the BBC and quite a lot of media outlets are doing a half assed hatchet job on them. Theres a few "nationalist" areas they march through which are nothing of the sort and only attract rhetoric to further politicians and community leaders and "rent-a-mobs" for a good old fashioned fight.
The parades also tend to draw out a lot of chavs basically as well as the decent people, when the said chavs get drunk and start acting the maggot that's when trouble starts.
The riots in East Belfast on the 1st werent organised, the parade wasn't meant to cause too much trouble or disruption. It was drunken ringpieces kicking off because they are well hard men innit.
For their to be peace in NI both sides need to learn to respect each other but I fear theres enough aholes wanting to cause trouble that there will be bother the next few weeks. Going around slagging of the Unionists for everything they do based on a few people while sucking off the nationalists at every possible time doesnt help things. Many many Unionists I know feel very demonised and its winding them up.
some of the bands though are absolutely brilliant, real dedication and talent and many keep the kids who have a pretty st lifestyle to be honest off the streats and out of too much trouble. When a kid grows up in an estate and has no real authority figure, the discipline learned in the band can be a good thing. Same as the many boxing clubs in nationalist areas, the kids involved in something tend not to get in too much trouble.
Course when there is trouble its usually founded on lots of drinking.
Theres still no need for the Orange Halls to have been set on fire and the one burned out the other day. How is that not going to antagonise the Orange Order and make them want revenge?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-1398...
Have to say as well that there have been a few more Orange halls vandalised and a few that have been set on fire recently that have been on local news and in the papers but no stories on BBC.
Its not helping ease any tensions is it?
Dont forget in the Orange hall in many small communities it hosts all kinds of things, even Irish lessons in some, youth groups, maths and English classes. It really is more of a community centre than anything else. Attacks on the halls arent attacks on the building it people view it as an attack on their community and traditions, as silly as they may be.
This is pretty much bang on the truth.A parade can be very annoying especially if they are antagonising people which does happen but less so these days. I believe the lodges in Glasgow are really bad for the s
t stirring but dont tar them all with the same brush. Usually most of them arent too disruptive though and are over fairly quickly, the on in Bangor the other night really didnt cause much hassle and didnt pass many houses, same as the ones through Ards and Donaghadee. The larger ones I can see how they justify the animosity generated as they are a disruption and do leave a mess. (Chavs arent very tidy people.)AS for marching having no place in society? Well neither does speaking Irish along with many other things, should that be banned because it upsets some people also? No. Should the nationalist parades also be banned? No.
Like it or not it is part of my heritage and the heritage of the majority of the population in Northern Ireland and we are supposedly a democracy. The parades commission and PSNI are doing a good job though, there are a few areas where I dont think they should march at all but I also think the BBC and quite a lot of media outlets are doing a half assed hatchet job on them. Theres a few "nationalist" areas they march through which are nothing of the sort and only attract rhetoric to further politicians and community leaders and "rent-a-mobs" for a good old fashioned fight.
The parades also tend to draw out a lot of chavs basically as well as the decent people, when the said chavs get drunk and start acting the maggot that's when trouble starts.
The riots in East Belfast on the 1st werent organised, the parade wasn't meant to cause too much trouble or disruption. It was drunken ringpieces kicking off because they are well hard men innit.
For their to be peace in NI both sides need to learn to respect each other but I fear theres enough a
holes wanting to cause trouble that there will be bother the next few weeks. Going around slagging of the Unionists for everything they do based on a few people while sucking off the nationalists at every possible time doesnt help things. Many many Unionists I know feel very demonised and its winding them up.some of the bands though are absolutely brilliant, real dedication and talent and many keep the kids who have a pretty s
t lifestyle to be honest off the streats and out of too much trouble. When a kid grows up in an estate and has no real authority figure, the discipline learned in the band can be a good thing. Same as the many boxing clubs in nationalist areas, the kids involved in something tend not to get in too much trouble. Course when there is trouble its usually founded on lots of drinking.
Theres still no need for the Orange Halls to have been set on fire and the one burned out the other day. How is that not going to antagonise the Orange Order and make them want revenge?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-1398...
Have to say as well that there have been a few more Orange halls vandalised and a few that have been set on fire recently that have been on local news and in the papers but no stories on BBC.
Its not helping ease any tensions is it?
Dont forget in the Orange hall in many small communities it hosts all kinds of things, even Irish lessons in some, youth groups, maths and English classes. It really is more of a community centre than anything else. Attacks on the halls arent attacks on the building it people view it as an attack on their community and traditions, as silly as they may be.
Ginetta G15 Girl said:
I beg to point out that, despite what the more rabid inhabitants of my home Country will tell you, Ulster is not the 6 Counties of NI. In fact it includes 3 Counties in the Republic, namely: Cavan, Donegal and Monaghan.
Not sure who you're talking about when you mention the more rabid inhabitants of Northern Ireland but yeah, that's correct. I should take what I believe you're trying to say a step further, like I said in t'other thread, Ulster is merely an ideological area of a country that doesn't exist. Unfortunately, NI often gets called Ulster by those who would seek to undermine NI's status as a country separate to RoI, the inference is that Ulster still exists as part of RoI and NI is not recognised as a separate entity. Similarly with the phrases "the 6 counties" and "the north of Ireland". To confuse matters further, "Ulster" is often used incorrectly by Unionists.
Mr Dave said:
There are a lot of thugs and morons in the orange these days Im afraid. It really is damaging and I hate seeing it. Many are still very respectable and they need to get a better grip on the ones causing trouble for their own sake. though it does seem to be getting a bit better in most places, some of the Lodges are pretty much entirely made up of wannabe hard men. Others are far more respectable.
A parade can be very annoying especially if they are antagonising people which does happen but less so these days. I believe the lodges in Glasgow are really bad for the st stirring but dont tar them all with the same brush. Usually most of them arent too disruptive though and are over fairly quickly, the on in Bangor the other night really didnt cause much hassle and didnt pass many houses, same as the ones through Ards and Donaghadee. The larger ones I can see how they justify the animosity generated as they are a disruption and do leave a mess. (Chavs arent very tidy people.)
AS for marching having no place in society? Well neither does speaking Irish along with many other things, should that be banned because it upsets some people also? No. Should the nationalist parades also be banned? No.
Like it or not it is part of my heritage and the heritage of the majority of the population in Northern Ireland and we are supposedly a democracy. The parades commission and PSNI are doing a good job though, there are a few areas where I dont think they should march at all but I also think the BBC and quite a lot of media outlets are doing a half assed hatchet job on them. Theres a few "nationalist" areas they march through which are nothing of the sort and only attract rhetoric to further politicians and community leaders and "rent-a-mobs" for a good old fashioned fight.
The parades also tend to draw out a lot of chavs basically as well as the decent people, when the said chavs get drunk and start acting the maggot that's when trouble starts.
The riots in East Belfast on the 1st werent organised, the parade wasn't meant to cause too much trouble or disruption. It was drunken ringpieces kicking off because they are well hard men innit.
For their to be peace in NI both sides need to learn to respect each other but I fear theres enough aholes wanting to cause trouble that there will be bother the next few weeks. Going around slagging of the Unionists for everything they do based on a few people while sucking off the nationalists at every possible time doesnt help things. Many many Unionists I know feel very demonised and its winding them up.
some of the bands though are absolutely brilliant, real dedication and talent and many keep the kids who have a pretty st lifestyle to be honest off the streats and out of too much trouble. When a kid grows up in an estate and has no real authority figure, the discipline learned in the band can be a good thing. Same as the many boxing clubs in nationalist areas, the kids involved in something tend not to get in too much trouble.
Course when there is trouble its usually founded on lots of drinking.
Theres still no need for the Orange Halls to have been set on fire and the one burned out the other day. How is that not going to antagonise the Orange Order and make them want revenge?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-1398...
Have to say as well that there have been a few more Orange halls vandalised and a few that have been set on fire recently that have been on local news and in the papers but no stories on BBC.
Its not helping ease any tensions is it?
Dont forget in the Orange hall in many small communities it hosts all kinds of things, even Irish lessons in some, youth groups, maths and English classes. It really is more of a community centre than anything else. Attacks on the halls arent attacks on the building it people view it as an attack on their community and traditions, as silly as they may be.
There is no doubt that both "sides" need to sort their lives out. Antagonism is unacceptable in any direction.A parade can be very annoying especially if they are antagonising people which does happen but less so these days. I believe the lodges in Glasgow are really bad for the s
t stirring but dont tar them all with the same brush. Usually most of them arent too disruptive though and are over fairly quickly, the on in Bangor the other night really didnt cause much hassle and didnt pass many houses, same as the ones through Ards and Donaghadee. The larger ones I can see how they justify the animosity generated as they are a disruption and do leave a mess. (Chavs arent very tidy people.)AS for marching having no place in society? Well neither does speaking Irish along with many other things, should that be banned because it upsets some people also? No. Should the nationalist parades also be banned? No.
Like it or not it is part of my heritage and the heritage of the majority of the population in Northern Ireland and we are supposedly a democracy. The parades commission and PSNI are doing a good job though, there are a few areas where I dont think they should march at all but I also think the BBC and quite a lot of media outlets are doing a half assed hatchet job on them. Theres a few "nationalist" areas they march through which are nothing of the sort and only attract rhetoric to further politicians and community leaders and "rent-a-mobs" for a good old fashioned fight.
The parades also tend to draw out a lot of chavs basically as well as the decent people, when the said chavs get drunk and start acting the maggot that's when trouble starts.
The riots in East Belfast on the 1st werent organised, the parade wasn't meant to cause too much trouble or disruption. It was drunken ringpieces kicking off because they are well hard men innit.
For their to be peace in NI both sides need to learn to respect each other but I fear theres enough a
holes wanting to cause trouble that there will be bother the next few weeks. Going around slagging of the Unionists for everything they do based on a few people while sucking off the nationalists at every possible time doesnt help things. Many many Unionists I know feel very demonised and its winding them up.some of the bands though are absolutely brilliant, real dedication and talent and many keep the kids who have a pretty s
t lifestyle to be honest off the streats and out of too much trouble. When a kid grows up in an estate and has no real authority figure, the discipline learned in the band can be a good thing. Same as the many boxing clubs in nationalist areas, the kids involved in something tend not to get in too much trouble. Course when there is trouble its usually founded on lots of drinking.
Theres still no need for the Orange Halls to have been set on fire and the one burned out the other day. How is that not going to antagonise the Orange Order and make them want revenge?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-1398...
Have to say as well that there have been a few more Orange halls vandalised and a few that have been set on fire recently that have been on local news and in the papers but no stories on BBC.
Its not helping ease any tensions is it?
Dont forget in the Orange hall in many small communities it hosts all kinds of things, even Irish lessons in some, youth groups, maths and English classes. It really is more of a community centre than anything else. Attacks on the halls arent attacks on the building it people view it as an attack on their community and traditions, as silly as they may be.
However, marching is also antagonising people and so massively unhelpful.
Orange Lodges might be the most wonderful places in the world, but are they open to everyone? What if someone turned up with ginger hair and the surname of O'Shaungnessy? Would they be just as welcome?
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