Class - Is it still relevant?

[TimJMS]

Not relevant but still extant, and always will be.

Jejeune, nouveau riche families need not apply for status in the upper echelons until 2211.

[Esseesse]

elster said:

I disagree that there is such a thing as middle class.

There seems to be the upper class, which is dwindling quite significantly year on year.

Then there is the under class. I don't think there is such as a thing as working or middle class. I think there is just everyone else.

I think there is a working and middle class. There's a huge gulf between people from families who grow up expecting to do something probably manual - work in wilkos, tyre fitter, cleaner etc and families who may not (but if they don't probably would like to) privately educate their kids and send them through higher education. I suppose it mostly comes from expectations, but I don't think you can lump the 2 together as 'everyone else', they're like chalk and cheese.

[Bing o]

Puggit said:

Phil1 said:

Steffan said:

The UK is still undoubtedly the most class ridden society.

Not really at all when compared to the Indian caste system.

How about the way the UAE treats the migrant workers?

You can chuck in Japan as well, plus the other countries mentioned. Myanmar/Burma too, although that's more tribal than class.

[Maximum Bobs]

Esseesse said:

I think there is a working and middle class. There's a huge gulf between people from families who grow up expecting to do something probably manual - work in wilkos, tyre fitter, cleaner etc and families who may not (but if they don't probably would like to) privately educate their kids and send them through higher education. I suppose it mostly comes from expectations, but I don't think you can lump the 2 together as 'everyone else', they're like chalk and cheese.

I don't agree & think the two have become merged beyond recognition. Unlike years ago everybody has the opportunity of higher education & everybody is aware of their opportunity of higher education. I sort of agree about expectations Pip, but I think people with low or no expectations will be in or bordering on the underclass & not the everybody else class. Hell, if I could go back a million years to when I was leaving school & if higher education was as easily accessible as it is today I'd be prime minister by now.

Probably another reason why the two classes have merged is money. Everybody has a telly, a mobile phone, a laptop & a BMW. Working & middle class were always separated by money, not only money, but money came into it. Nowadays it doesn't & everybody earns a liveable wage & everybody can afford the nicer things in life that not so many years ago would have contributed to distancing the two classes. Thinking about it even the underclass, thanks to handouts, have the same niceties in life so maybe the classes are becoming more blurred than I first thought, so maybe there isn't so much dividing working/middle, & under class & maybe the only thing separating the working/middle & the under class is the fact that the working/middle do in fact work.

Edited by Maximum Bobs on Wednesday 21st December 03:32

[Plotloss]

Very expensive to those that can't afford it, free to those who can.

[jeff m2]

Relevant if one doesn't have any.

Not too long ago access to a stockbroker, membership of a golf club and bank loans were difficult to anyone not able to slot into the middle class cat.

The definition then would have not included most 9 to 5ers.

Usuage of the term has been changed by Politicians who use it to convince voters they are middle class and "He is your Man", whereas in reality it is "you are Middle Class and you are my Tax Revenue"

However I'm in the States, so as my house doesn't have wheels I'm apparently Middle Class.

Edited by jeff m2 on Wednesday 21st December 06:04

[Bing o]

jeff m2 said:

However I'm in the States, so as my house doesn't have wheels I'm apparently Middle Class.

Americans have no class.



And yes, take that how ever you want too...

[turbobloke]

Financially independent class - so wealthy nothing much can hit their lifestyle

Political class - weasels who make sure they are outside the blast zone in other ways

Hardworking class - everybody in a job or running a business who earns their crust

Benefits class - lifestyle claimants living on handouts

Underclass - have nothing including education and morals so have nothing to lose

[pilchardthecat]

If you can't give up work today and not work again, or work permanently for free, then you're working class.

The middle class used to be defined by people who worked only for the prestige, or to further the family legacy, but never for the money.

[Digga]

I'm siding with those who say actions have a good deal do do with it. I'm afraid that I've come accross too many wealthy scumbags - I'm sure we all know a few - to be swayed from my instinctive view that it has little to do with money or even breeding and education.

Motorhead said:

Shut up, you talk too loud,
You don't fit in with the crowd,
I can't believe you exist,
I've crossed you right off my list,
Too much, too soon,
You're way out of tune,
No Class, No Class

Way out, you're way out of line,
No buddy I can't spare a dime,
Fade out, baby that's right,
No bark and even less bite,

Your perfect smile,
Betrays your lack of style,
No Class, No Class
Ah No Class, No Class

Too late, you can't catch up now,
You face the wrong way anyhow,
I know you ain't got the brain,
To come in out of the rain,

Too bad, no magic,
I'm afraid you're merely tragic,
No Class, baby No Class
No Class, ah No Class

Apologies to our PH bretheren across the pond, but I can never hear the lines "Your perfect smile, betrays your lack of style" without thinking about Americans.

[heebeegeetee]

I'm upper working class with lower middle class aspirations.

[SpeedMattersNot]

I think today we have;

1) Upper Class

2) Working Class

3) Non-Working Class

I don't think "middle-class" actually exists anymore. If you've got a job in the UK, chances are you'll live a comfortable life style. I personally think that's a good thing.

[Digga]

SpeedMattersNot said:

I don't think "middle-class" actually exists anymore. If you've got a job in the UK, chances are you'll live a comfortable life style. I personally think that's a good thing.

So you would lump a banker into the same class as a tyre & exhaust fitter?

[DJRC]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Chicken Chaser said:

There is still the aristocracy at the top.....

It's not the cream that floats - it's the scum old boy.

Always felt that was a bit harsh. Ive met a few of them and by and large they seem pretty good folks. This is also true of most of my working class mates Ive knocked around. Its also true for most of the middle classes Ive knocked around with.

Basically the majority of us are fairly OK types. By far the worst though are the 2 extremes of the Middle Classes...and you can gaurantee that in any cpl, one will either be a teacher or a member of the "professions"...with one lot being the Hyacinthe Bucket mob and the other mob being the jumped up new money, arrogant, aggressive tossers who insist on imposing themselves on you.

[SpeedMattersNot]

Digga said:

SpeedMattersNot said:

I don't think "middle-class" actually exists anymore. If you've got a job in the UK, chances are you'll live a comfortable life style. I personally think that's a good thing.

So you would lump a banker into the same class as a tyre & exhaust fitter?

There are multiple variables here, but typically, as an exhaust and tyre fitter myself I don't see that just because my neighbour has a BMW on finance and works at a bank means she is 'higher class' than I am - especially when she still lives at home with her parents (even if her dad is the town mayor).

It changes if they actually own the bank though

[Jimslips]

SpeedMattersNot said:

There are multiple variables here, but typically, as an exhaust and tyre fitter myself I don't see that just because my neighbour has a BMW on finance and works at a bank means she is 'higher class' than I am - especially when she still lives at home with her parents (even if her dad is the town mayor).

It changes if they actually own the bank though

Do you feel like you are the same class as someone who is at a senior level in a business, professional job, masters degree educated? Own house, couple of cars. Kids in private school.

Are you implying that ever person who ‘works’ in a job is the same class?

I suppose it all depends how one defines class.

[Digga]

SpeedMattersNot said:

Digga said:

SpeedMattersNot said:

I don't think "middle-class" actually exists anymore. If you've got a job in the UK, chances are you'll live a comfortable life style. I personally think that's a good thing.

So you would lump a banker into the same class as a tyre & exhaust fitter?

There are multiple variables here, but typically, as an exhaust and tyre fitter myself I don't see that just because my neighbour has a BMW on finance and works at a bank means she is 'higher class' than I am - especially when she still lives at home with her parents (even if her dad is the town mayor).

It changes if they actually own the bank though

Professionals of all type tend to save more of their income rather than subsist on it. I don't think that is a huge distinction, but I beleive it does (generally represent a small shift in class distinction within those who have to work for a living.

BTW, the wealtheir working class would seldom buy a car on tic.

[SpeedMattersNot]

I guess professionalism in a job and aquired education is probably a better indicator of intelligence, rather than wealth or class.

I have some family friends who are multi-millionaires and who still get up to all the same mischeif they did 40+ years ago! So we can discredit wealth as an indicator (others have already stated that I know).

Out of the mechanics and other "hands on" job workers I've met, there's more in common with them and typical middle class workers, than there is from what I'd call the non-working class.

It's just my interpetation and I'm not against the; working-middle-upper class structure. I am aware I would be considered "working class" which, I have no problem with. (albeit, ironically I'm currently out of work!) But it becomes sticky when trying to catagorise people away from 'working class' into 'middle class' and would feel instead seperating them into 'working' and 'non-working' would be more appropriate.

[Digga]

SpeedMattersNot said:

Out of the mechanics and other "hands on" job workers I've met, there's more in common with them and typical middle class workers, than there is from what I'd call the non-working class.

I think the non-working class, the chronically idel, are the lowest of all and quite apart from (and beneath) the general unemployed. There is great nobility in many manual jobs and skills - I think peopple ought to be proud of their work.

IMHO it's piss poor state of affairs when non-workers (or any one else) feel they can sneer at those who do 'menial' jobs - cleaning etc. - to make ends meet.

[Guybrush]

Dracoro said:

People confuse class with earnings/income.

For example, you can be *working* class but earn loads. You can be *upper* class but have no money.

Granted, in many/most cases working class people won't be rich and upper class people won't be poor but it's not a prerequisite.

I agree. The trouble with the UK is the class indicators which the new wealthy aspire to and then push hard so as to imply their new status. These unclassy but moneyied can be a bit grating, like private school kids some of whom can be apt to denigrate state school kids purely on the basis of where their parents sent them to school. Surely a weak foundation for such misplaced arrogance? I went to public school and we did not behave like that at all, but sadly I see this more now in the young privately-educated - maybe a different class has the money now?