Newt Gingrich's promise to build a base on the moon by 2020
Discussion
caz_manc said:
Seriously WTF, there is absolutely no reason to go back to the moon, there is nothing there.
It could cost 5% of the federal budget, so why?
China.It could cost 5% of the federal budget, so why?
That's it. 1 word. China. Sooner or later they are going to start calling in these loans, and showing what their new navy and airforce can do. Having bought up not only the land and businesses, they will own huge chunks of the interesting technical stuff that currently gives the USA (and Europe) it's edge. They are also going to the Moon.
We have all seen here in the UK what happens when you lose manufacturing. Innovation and research dry up. Universities become places where it is more important to hot-house through as many £9k/PA students as possible, rather than finding a cure for humanity's ills. The space race gave the American economy a huge boost at a difficult time, not just employing and training highly skilled people, but research and development departments and all the other non obvious spin-offs such as accelerating the growth of cheap semiconductors, and Quality Assurance.
I think several hundred billion dollars invested in going back to the moon would be a far better investment in the US economy than another injection into the banking system, which would see it disappear into a dozen pockets, only a few of which even live in the USA.
Zad said:
We have all seen here in the UK what happens when you lose manufacturing. Innovation and research dry up. Universities become places where it is more important to hot-house through as many £9k/PA students as possible, rather than finding a cure for humanity's ills.
Difficult to measure, but is there any actual evidence of this, say in the numbers of patents granted? As always US figures are much easier to find, and apparently 2010 was a record year for the US patent office, even as manufacturing continued it's long decline. Zad said:
The space race gave the American economy a huge boost at a difficult time, not just employing and training highly skilled people, but research and development departments and all the other non obvious spin-offs such as accelerating the growth of cheap semiconductors, and Quality Assurance.
Again it's difficult to say what the effect of the space race on the economy was. The net result was a man bouncing around the moon for a few minutes, and what? Imagine if those people had been employed doing something useful.True that there would be development spin offs, but then imagine if those scientists had been working on developing cheap semiconductors without having to fire it at the moon.
Zad said:
I think several hundred billion dollars invested in going back to the moon would be a far better investment in the US economy than another injection into the banking system, which would see it disappear into a dozen pockets, only a few of which even live in the USA.
How about just letting the people who earn the money by creating wealth spend it themselves?No denying that the moon landings are an inspirational image, and I'm sure it made a great rallying cry at the time. However at a time when their economy is teetering on the brink of collapse and government spending spiraling out of control, a giant firework is really not the answer.
Zad said:
caz_manc said:
Seriously WTF, there is absolutely no reason to go back to the moon, there is nothing there.
It could cost 5% of the federal budget, so why?
China.It could cost 5% of the federal budget, so why?
That's it. 1 word. China. Sooner or later they are going to start calling in these loans, and showing what their new navy and airforce can do. Having bought up not only the land and businesses, they will own huge chunks of the interesting technical stuff that currently gives the USA (and Europe) it's edge. They are also going to the Moon.
We have all seen here in the UK what happens when you lose manufacturing. Innovation and research dry up. Universities become places where it is more important to hot-house through as many £9k/PA students as possible, rather than finding a cure for humanity's ills. The space race gave the American economy a huge boost at a difficult time, not just employing and training highly skilled people, but research and development departments and all the other non obvious spin-offs such as accelerating the growth of cheap semiconductors, and Quality Assurance.
I think several hundred billion dollars invested in going back to the moon would be a far better investment in the US economy than another injection into the banking system, which would see it disappear into a dozen pockets, only a few of which even live in the USA.
If the highpoint of the future we have as a species involves watching reality TV and following our favourite celebs on Twitter and Facebook then I'd be the first to volunteer for the moon base.
......please.Eric Mc said:
If the US had not embarked on its numerous wars of the 21st Century, I reckon it could have funded 100 maned missions to the moon for the same amount of money spent.
Had that quote been for the last 60 years, my response would have been "Damned shame they would have simply been supply missions to the USSR base".Given it was the last 10 years, I'm minded to agree. Targetted assassination would have been much cheaper, if somewhat liable to blowback.
GavinPearson said:
The USA needs to focus on getting their deficit reduced, eliminating as much public expenditure as possible and helping the economy grow. Spending massive amounts of public money to build a base on the moon is certainly going to boost the fortunes of NASA contractors, but it is no different in real terms to spending money with concrete contractors who fix roads - and that has been harshly criticised. It won't sit well with Tea Partiers and swing voters - the people who will decide who the next US President is.
As Romney outlined last night: He would gather the NASA staff, military leaders, and industry heads to determine the best way to leverage the space program for not only exploration for exploration sakes, but to best advance medicine, industry development, and making space programs profitable and self sustaining. Creating a culture that streamlines the process for the private sector to access space is one way forward.Zad said:
caz_manc said:
Seriously WTF, there is absolutely no reason to go back to the moon, there is nothing there.
It could cost 5% of the federal budget, so why?
China.It could cost 5% of the federal budget, so why?
That's it. 1 word. China. Sooner or later they are going to start calling in these loans, and showing what their new navy and airforce can do. Having bought up not only the land and businesses, they will own huge chunks of the interesting technical stuff that currently gives the USA (and Europe) it's edge. They are also going to the Moon.
We have all seen here in the UK what happens when you lose manufacturing. Innovation and research dry up. Universities become places where it is more important to hot-house through as many £9k/PA students as possible, rather than finding a cure for humanity's ills. The space race gave the American economy a huge boost at a difficult time, not just employing and training highly skilled people, but research and development departments and all the other non obvious spin-offs such as accelerating the growth of cheap semiconductors, and Quality Assurance.
I think several hundred billion dollars invested in going back to the moon would be a far better investment in the US economy than another injection into the banking system, which would see it disappear into a dozen pockets, only a few of which even live in the USA.
Again though, you are correct in all of the side benefits of a space program. People fail to realize the things we use everyday that were a result of the space program.
Jimbeaux said:
AJS- said:
They'll probably just build it in Area 51 and tell everyone they've got a base on the moon, if past form is anything to go by.
Don't you dare try to slip moon hoaxing into this thread, that horse is beat to a furry pile.AJS- said:
Jimbeaux said:
AJS- said:
They'll probably just build it in Area 51 and tell everyone they've got a base on the moon, if past form is anything to go by.
Don't you dare try to slip moon hoaxing into this thread, that horse is beat to a furry pile.
V88Dicky said:
tonym911 said:
V88Dicky said:
A permanent base on the moon brings bankruptcy one step closer
I've edited that for you. I'm all for space exploration, but not with the technology or mindset we're using at the moment. We seem to be in a downward spiral of human-hating self loathing, blaming ourselves for bringing the world to premature end, all the while living the dream by buying white German diesels on the never never, and 100% mortgages for houses filled with 50" TVs and the latest products from Apple Corp. and telling anyone who wants to know about our pathetic, self-important lives via Faceboak and t
tter.Mankind NEEDS to explore. For his own good.
It's worth pointing out that Barack Obama talked of establishing a base on the moon prior to his election before realising there was bugger-all money to do it.
And I agree - mankind needs collective endeavours as much as anything. You've described very well the small-minded, inward-looking, self-serving attitudes that erode the notion of 'community' and make a lot of peoples' lives a misery, reducing interaction and creating crippling status-anxiety.
There was something pleasantly optimistic about an era when the average kid wanted to grow up to be an astronaut or a test-pilot rather than a footballer or an 'entrepreneur'. It suggested the kind of goals that required deep scientific and technical learning combined with long-term dedication not necessarily driven by quick and easy money. Without that mindset, the human race gets nowhere.
It also raises our sights and expectations. I was hoping things like the faster-than-light neutrino experiment and the Large Hadron Collider might lead to things like nuclear fusion and new methods of space travel. But no, like everything it seems we're only bothered about making broadband a bit faster. To be honest I haven't considered computer speeds 'slow' since we ditched dialup. Why can't we have even a suggestion of something genuinely sci-fi futuristic and world-changing? Computers bore me rigid. Faster broadband is about as interesting as a bigger spanner.
Virtually all the computing power we have today evolved out of space technology or military aerospace technology.
A lot of the microelectronics used in medical technology also originated from military/space engineering.
Most of the companies involved in aerospace and military are one and the same - so it's virtually imposssible to divorce the two disciplines.
The main space based technologies that affect our daily lives are -
GPS systems
communications satellites
weather satellites
earth resources satellites
There are also plenty of reserach probes and satellites which are learning new things about the earth, sun and other planets which will obne day lead to a bettter understanding of our planet and how its changes affect us.
A lot of the microelectronics used in medical technology also originated from military/space engineering.
Most of the companies involved in aerospace and military are one and the same - so it's virtually imposssible to divorce the two disciplines.
The main space based technologies that affect our daily lives are -
GPS systems
communications satellites
weather satellites
earth resources satellites
There are also plenty of reserach probes and satellites which are learning new things about the earth, sun and other planets which will obne day lead to a bettter understanding of our planet and how its changes affect us.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff