Home Office staff to strike on eve of Games
Discussion
hornet said:
Interesting that when I first read that report, it clearly stated "...of the 16000 staff balloted" before giving the 20% turnout figure, yet that statistic has mysteriously now vanished. Were one being a cynic, one might suggest it's to divert attention from the fact 57.2% of 20% of 16000 clearly doesn't warrant "Thousands" in the headline, yet there it is...
1830 voted in favour of strike action, technically more than a thousand therefore thousands is correct but misleading description of the result.And, yes I do think it's a sham strike when that few members voted in the first place.
martin84 said:
They strike for all sorts of reasons, they might strike with Labour in power due to a better chance of getting what they want.
Not so. The one and only time I've been on strike was as a civil servant in 1979 - under Labour. They refused to give us a reasonable pay rise. The 1979 General Election arrived on the scene. Maggie got in. We got an immediate pay rise. End of strike!Dracoro said:
telecat said:
If you want a "Good" service be prepared to PAY FOR IT.
But we DO pay for it (I'm not specifically addressing the issue in hand, more a general point). What's more, we already pay for it AND STILL the service is poor. Throwing money at it isn't the solution. It's not how much money you throw around, it's HOW you throw it. If you throw it well and you add more then things improve, if you do things as is mostly done, all we are doing is throwing good money after bad which results in the great mess we are in.
DJRC said:
That is the most intelligent thing you have posted since you joined. Granted, its also the only intelligent thing Ive seen you post, but Im happy to see someone start small and work up.
Welcome to reality, please enjoy your stay.
I'll take that as a compliment. The odd thing is I have not changed my point of view at any stage.Welcome to reality, please enjoy your stay.
However I did think It went from a noble hunt to make up a pay gap into a charter for the lazy and a vehicle for unaffordable greed was very good. I'll congratulate myself on that line.
martin84 said:
It is interesting only 20% bothered to vote in this ballet and only a narrow majority voted for strike action, so any strike will be down to 1 in 10 members favouring it, suggesting most don't want to strike during the Olympics.
With these kind of numbers, they're just dancing round the issue.
I just hope the rest of the workforce show up as normal and show the workshy jobsworth element up for who they are.
Not that - in the public sector - it will do their career prospects any harm.
martin84 said:
Caulkhead said:
You're missing the point by trying to spin this round to May as usual. If they want rid of her, striking during the olympics is a grade A route to zero public support, failure and a blank cheque for the government to carry on reforming the public sector. The union boses evidently don't have a braincell to share amongst themselves.
They're not going to strike, this is just grandstanding. May's biggest problem is with the Police rather than the border staff, the public will rally behind Police, you don't f
k with them. The Government are not reforming the public sector, they're trimming the edges.May's had an awful time of it since.....May 2010
so they're just piling it on by making her have to face TV cameras for this as well as other things recently. She'll be out soon enough.
Ignoring all the ramblings about unions, this is a case of trying to make a quart look like a pint-pot. Knowing a few people who work at the Border control, it really chills me to hear what is going on, especially at the moment. Some stuff is right in the whistle-blower territory and it won't surprise you to hear a few already have and are suspended because of it. An active campaign to shed staff comprised with no recruitment against an ever falling central budget is only going to mean one thing, dip in morale and a desperate attempt at covering the cracks. Not so bad at the DVLA office, but when you are charged with monitoring and reporting the passage of those on "watch lists" then a little more important and timely perhaps.
When you start asking staff to try and meet airline travel patterns (of which the HO have little control over) then it doesn't surprise people when staff get a bit grumpy when you have to attend work for 3 hours, go home for 4, come back for 2, have 8 hours off and then start at 4am. Coupled with the lack of staff and you have PAs to Senior Managers operating the control points and cocking it up, MoD police and Special branch (the latter two who admit they haven't got a scooby about what they are doing, but try their best) and coining in a fortune in expenses and overtime. It isn't a glamorous job, but it's an important one when you realise it's more than just scanning returning Bennidorm Pax.
When you start asking staff to try and meet airline travel patterns (of which the HO have little control over) then it doesn't surprise people when staff get a bit grumpy when you have to attend work for 3 hours, go home for 4, come back for 2, have 8 hours off and then start at 4am. Coupled with the lack of staff and you have PAs to Senior Managers operating the control points and cocking it up, MoD police and Special branch (the latter two who admit they haven't got a scooby about what they are doing, but try their best) and coining in a fortune in expenses and overtime. It isn't a glamorous job, but it's an important one when you realise it's more than just scanning returning Bennidorm Pax.
Sgt Bilko said:
When you start asking staff to try and meet airline travel patterns (of which the HO have little control over) then it doesn't surprise people when staff get a bit grumpy.
Darn. Those customers are just so awkward. Next thing you know people will want supermarkets open on Sunday and some 24 hour petrol stations on the motorway.The tail end of public sector jobsworth mentality is laughable. Round here the council officers in charge of tree protection operate a strict M-F 9-5. So everyone cuts down trees in the evening or at weekends. Who'd a thunk it.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Sgt Bilko said:
When you start asking staff to try and meet airline travel patterns (of which the HO have little control over) then it doesn't surprise people when staff get a bit grumpy.
Darn. Those customers are just so awkward. Next thing you know people will want supermarkets open on Sunday and some 24 hour petrol stations on the motorway.The tail end of public sector jobsworth mentality is laughable. Round here the council officers in charge of tree protection operate a strict M-F 9-5. So everyone cuts down trees in the evening or at weekends. Who'd a thunk it.
arfur sleep said:
hornet said:
Interesting that when I first read that report, it clearly stated "...of the 16000 staff balloted" before giving the 20% turnout figure, yet that statistic has mysteriously now vanished. Were one being a cynic, one might suggest it's to divert attention from the fact 57.2% of 20% of 16000 clearly doesn't warrant "Thousands" in the headline, yet there it is...
1830 voted in favour of strike action, technically more than a thousand therefore thousands is correct but misleading description of the result.And, yes I do think it's a sham strike when that few members voted in the first place.
Thousands means plural. When there is less 2 thousand, it can't be thousands.
Sgt Bilko said:
You misunderstood my point. Before they COULD meet the travel patterns of airlines (which by the way change throughout the year which makes it quite difficult to have any kind of stable working pattern) because they had an average amount of staff. Cut that staff, and what you have is 1/2 people working during the apparent "quieter" times and an attempt to get more in whilst it's busier.
Fair enough. It's tough to be held effectively on standby for work. I think it's what the dock workers were getting excited about way back in the 1970s. Unfortunately their angst led only to the utter decline of docks in London, Liverpool, Manchester, Bristol, etc etc. Ozzie Osmond said:
Sgt Bilko said:
You misunderstood my point. Before they COULD meet the travel patterns of airlines (which by the way change throughout the year which makes it quite difficult to have any kind of stable working pattern) because they had an average amount of staff. Cut that staff, and what you have is 1/2 people working during the apparent "quieter" times and an attempt to get more in whilst it's busier.
Fair enough. It's tough to be held effectively on standby for work. I think it's what the dock workers were getting excited about way back in the 1970s. Unfortunately their angst led only to the utter decline of docks in London, Liverpool, Manchester, Bristol, etc etc. martin84 said:
It is interesting only 20% bothered to vote in this ballet and only a narrow majority voted for strike action, so any strike will be down to 1 in 10 members favouring it, suggesting most don't want to strike during the Olympics. In fairness to them it seems this is more about the general poor shape of the Agency itself rather than a simple pay dispute. We all know Theresa May has an awful relationship with the Border Agency...and the Police...and..well...basically everybody. She is the most incompetent human being in this Government, everything she touches goes wrong and everybody hates her. The Unions are probably just trying to force her out of the job.
I would think May will be first up for the axe when the next re-shuffle comes around. She's even more of a liability than Hunt and Lansley.
With all due respect - you're talking rubbish...I would think May will be first up for the axe when the next re-shuffle comes around. She's even more of a liability than Hunt and Lansley.
Union members should be obligated to vote when it comes down to a ballot for strike action. Provide pre-paid envelopes, dismiss from the Union any person who has not voted unless very good reason can be provided for non voting. A minimum of 36.1% of votes received should qualify for a 'carried motion'. Those members who do not hold a view should simply spoil their paper.
crankedup said:
Union members should be obligated to vote when it comes down to a ballot for strike action. Provide pre-paid envelopes, dismiss from the Union any person who has not voted unless very good reason can be provided for non voting. A minimum of 36.1% of votes received should qualify for a 'carried motion'. Those members who do not hold a view should simply spoil their paper.
Unnecessarily complex. A minimum turnout rule would achieve the same and limit the vote to people that actually cared. All forcing people to vote achieves is compelling people with no strong view on something to vote.
Actually, what am I saying? Potentially kicking a huge proportion of union members out of the union movement? Sounds like a great idea, and if Crankedup said it first, it can't be as hairy-chestedly right wing as it seems!
telecat said:
But you missed the point. That is you HAD a good service and Due to cuts you have lost it. The Money you are paying is NOT going to the services any more. It is going to cut government debt. Now I would support cuts in Civil Servants at Whitehall where the Higher Paid ones that "support" the government are, and also places like the NHS "Management", MOD, DVLA, HMRC and CSA but they aren't being affected by the look of it. The staff you contact and need to be there are being cut. Front line Police, Medical staff, Immigration Officer's and the Military. Given the calibre of staff such as G4S seem to be able to recruit at the levels of pay they seem to think is viable do you think you will get better value for money from the private sector?
Going to cut the debt rather than paying for services, eh? And where do you think the debt came from? FFS. Our public services are, in general, very poor value for money and no worse than the likes of G4S will deliver.
I'd rather see more cuts to reduce debt, followed by lower taxes than would otherwise be needed, than continue to see our money wasted as it has been on overblown public 'services'.
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