The Boris thing?
Discussion
Boris is a politician, he's a joker, and he's smart. He has a zipper problem as our American cousins might say, but as the old enemy has long recognised there is something about the kind of men who become leaders and sex.
They are driven in every aspect of their lives. Which makes them flawed.
It's an old one but...
It is time to elect a new world leader, and only your vote counts. Here are the facts about the three leading candidates.
Candidate A - Associates with crooked politicians, and consults with astrologists. He's had two Mistresses. He also chain smokes and drinks 8 to 10 martinis a day.
Candidate B - He was kicked out of office twice, sleeps until noon, used opium in college and drinks a quart of whiskey every evening.
Candidate C - He is a decorated war hero. He's a vegetarian, doesn't smoke, drinks an occasional beer and never cheated on his wife.
They are driven in every aspect of their lives. Which makes them flawed.
It's an old one but...
It is time to elect a new world leader, and only your vote counts. Here are the facts about the three leading candidates.
Candidate A - Associates with crooked politicians, and consults with astrologists. He's had two Mistresses. He also chain smokes and drinks 8 to 10 martinis a day.
Candidate B - He was kicked out of office twice, sleeps until noon, used opium in college and drinks a quart of whiskey every evening.
Candidate C - He is a decorated war hero. He's a vegetarian, doesn't smoke, drinks an occasional beer and never cheated on his wife.
From a debate on Gambling...
Boris said:
I think it unlikely, however, that all these new casinos will be cultivated places, full of black-tied croupiers and James Bond-style girls, draping themselves over people's shoulders as they go into the final rubber with Le Chiffre, playing vingt et un. They will not all be high-class establishments.
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/2002/ju...Boris is a laugh, it's not a fascade because fascade's drop by now - and his father is a similar sort of character - but I don't know why we think he's a credible candidate for Prime Minister or, even more laughably, that he's any less of a self serving, slimey politician than the rest of them.
Boris' biggest fans think the plebs have 'bought' his bumbling fascade. I think Boris' biggest fans have 'bought' the idea that he's somehow totally different to all the others. He's not, he's just funny while doing it. In a contest against Ken Livingstone that's enough, but as Prime Minister when the stakes are completely different I'm not sure it is.
Boris' biggest fans think the plebs have 'bought' his bumbling fascade. I think Boris' biggest fans have 'bought' the idea that he's somehow totally different to all the others. He's not, he's just funny while doing it. In a contest against Ken Livingstone that's enough, but as Prime Minister when the stakes are completely different I'm not sure it is.
tters and thats it.0000 said:
Because of all the credibility that other PM candidates offer?
We're not talking about other candidates we're talking about Boris. Being outside Parliament he is free to speak his mind in the knowledge Cameron can't do anything to him, he has opposed at least four of Cameron's policies (policies PH agrees with) so I wonder if you'd still love Boris if he were to change them as PM. In the same vein as his supporters believing people accept a policy they don't like if he says it - it's fair to also suggest his fans accept criticism of a policy they approve of if he says it.Pesty said:
it should not be that way though should it?
in 1997 I asked my mrs who she was voting for. she said Blair I asked why.
her answer" he wears nice suits"
wanting boris for PM because he makes you smile is exactly the same thing.
Your wife's reason for voting for Blair are as credible as the reasons you've given so far why you don't like Boris. Neither of you seem concerned with ability or policy, she liked suits Blair's suits, you dislike Boris' personality.in 1997 I asked my mrs who she was voting for. she said Blair I asked why.
her answer" he wears nice suits"
wanting boris for PM because he makes you smile is exactly the same thing.
sday12 said:
OzzyR1 said:
sday12 said:
The Guardian, renowned for it's unbiased views and not at all left-wing, anti-Tory status and use of journalists trying to promote their own books.Oh no, wait...
Pistonheads, know for its tolerance, liberalism and socially cohesive attitudes.
Oh, no, wait.
Oh, no, wait.
As a Londoner I sincerely hope Boris doesn't go back into party politics. I'd rather keep him as mayor.
He says what he's going to do and, if it doesn't come about, he says why. He's not afraid to say when he's made a mistake. I wouldn't say he's 100% trustworthy but I trust him more than any other current politician.
OzzyR1 said:
Slight diversion off-topic but wondering what the outcome would be if we offered the PM of this country a salary of say £50 million. This might attract some of the big business brains in the country to apply their attention.
Firstly, business dictates the goverment decisions at the moment. They pay for the tory party and so they expect to be not only listened to but obeyed.Secondly, who do you have in mind as a PM: a bank manager perhaps?
martin84 said:
Boris is a laugh, it's not a fascade because fascade's drop by now - and his father is a similar sort of character - but I don't know why we think he's a credible candidate for Prime Minister or, even more laughably, that he's any less of a self serving, slimey politician than the rest of them.
Boris' biggest fans think the plebs have 'bought' his bumbling fascade. I think Boris' biggest fans have 'bought' the idea that he's somehow totally different to all the others. He's not, he's just funny while doing it. In a contest against Ken Livingstone that's enough, but as Prime Minister when the stakes are completely different I'm not sure it is.
I think there is a an element of a facade to his performances, the blustering gives him time to think of a reply or how to avoid the question. He is a candidate for PM as the field is pretty limited, Cameron seems to be losing the Tory party by cosying up to the Liberals and not really standing for anything, Osborne has done poorly as Chancellor, Hague will never rid himself of his Tory boy conference speech and baseball cap errors and there isn't really anyone else of any substance. An election battle between Boris and Milliband is truly a depressing thought for the state of the country.Boris' biggest fans think the plebs have 'bought' his bumbling fascade. I think Boris' biggest fans have 'bought' the idea that he's somehow totally different to all the others. He's not, he's just funny while doing it. In a contest against Ken Livingstone that's enough, but as Prime Minister when the stakes are completely different I'm not sure it is.
Caulkhead said:
Your wife's reason for voting for Blair are as credible as the reasons you've given so far why you don't like Boris. Neither of you seem concerned with ability or policy, she liked suits Blair's suits, you dislike Boris' personality.
Yes good point. He should be judged on his merits rather than if he makes you smile.If he did run for PM I would listen him and look at his record. I would not judge him by how the media/PR team or indeed himself wishes us to see him.
What are his successes so far apart from not being the Labour guy?
Pesty said:
What are his successes so far apart from not being the Labour guy?
Well, he did promise to, and then did, get rid of the abhorred stupid bendy-buses.Replacing them with;
As a Mayor he seems to work. He is in the Rudi Giuliani model from New York. Make a few key electoral promises, keep them and make sure everybody knows.
As PM material I would have to question his style though.
Having a comedic leader can only be viewed poorly by other world leaders. Boris as our rep at a G8 conference would be a disaster.
Italy can get away with having a clown, the UK cannot.
tubbystu said:
Pesty said:
What are his successes so far apart from not being the Labour guy?
Well, he did promise to, and then did, get rid of the abhorred stupid bendy-buses.Replacing them with;
As a Mayor he seems to work. He is in the Rudi Giuliani model from New York. Make a few key electoral promises, keep them and make sure everybody knows.
As PM material I would have to question his style though.
Having a comedic leader can only be viewed poorly by other world leaders. Boris as our rep at a G8 conference would be a disaster.
Italy can get away with having a clown, the UK cannot.
M.
Anyone who thinks Boris Johnson doesn't lie needs to examine their facts a little more closely. He was sacked from the Times for making up a quote and is pretty notorious for his porkies while in office as mayor (on transport, fares, cutting police numbers, affordable homes and crime statistics to name but a few).
I think he's done a lot of good things for London and he's very likeable, but it's easy to let his public persona fool you into thinking he's a bumbling good guy who speaks his mind, doesn't toe the party line yada yada. But a lot of what he does is very calculated and he plays very much on his image.
As I pointed out in the other Boris thread, he's also well-known for evading questions - even his own biographer, Sonia Purnell, was cold-shouldered and she's not the only one albeit the latter is biased.
In the other thread I said too about my own attempts to ask him questions and how I was Teflon'd off and kept away by the PR people (they did answer the questions I put to them via email but it was all very bland and copy/paste). He is very much the same in MQT and resorts to belittling or ignoring people who ask him awkward questions.
The opposition to him in London is larger than you might imagine and he got elected this year by not as great a majority as he probably would have liked.
Despite all this, I have a lot more sympathy for him than many other people I know and get pretty bored with the relentless Boris-bashing from the left (Dave Hill of the Guardian is an offender here). Had I been able to vote for him, I would have, but a lot of that was because I detested Ken Livingstone, Paddick is a nonentity and I disagreed with Jenny Jones' stance on motoring and the Green Party's hopeless proposal for road pricing in London.
I do not believe he will be PM or leader of the Tory party. He is a favourite because he has public support and superficial popularity but neither of those make a good PM and I don't believe that Boris would be good PM. He's no different to any other politician and anyone who thinks he is is deluding themselves.
I think he's done a lot of good things for London and he's very likeable, but it's easy to let his public persona fool you into thinking he's a bumbling good guy who speaks his mind, doesn't toe the party line yada yada. But a lot of what he does is very calculated and he plays very much on his image.
As I pointed out in the other Boris thread, he's also well-known for evading questions - even his own biographer, Sonia Purnell, was cold-shouldered and she's not the only one albeit the latter is biased.
In the other thread I said too about my own attempts to ask him questions and how I was Teflon'd off and kept away by the PR people (they did answer the questions I put to them via email but it was all very bland and copy/paste). He is very much the same in MQT and resorts to belittling or ignoring people who ask him awkward questions.
The opposition to him in London is larger than you might imagine and he got elected this year by not as great a majority as he probably would have liked.
Despite all this, I have a lot more sympathy for him than many other people I know and get pretty bored with the relentless Boris-bashing from the left (Dave Hill of the Guardian is an offender here). Had I been able to vote for him, I would have, but a lot of that was because I detested Ken Livingstone, Paddick is a nonentity and I disagreed with Jenny Jones' stance on motoring and the Green Party's hopeless proposal for road pricing in London.
I do not believe he will be PM or leader of the Tory party. He is a favourite because he has public support and superficial popularity but neither of those make a good PM and I don't believe that Boris would be good PM. He's no different to any other politician and anyone who thinks he is is deluding themselves.
Edited by Silver on Sunday 5th August 19:02
tubbystu said:
Well, he did promise to, and then did, get rid of the abhorred stupid bendy-buses.
Is that it? all you can think of?Ok I'm sure this is popular I've heard people talk of it but was it good to do?
how much did it cost
do they run on time
are they easy to use
are they always full.
etc etc
tubbystu said:
Pesty said:
What are his successes so far apart from not being the Labour guy?
Well, he did promise to, and then did, get rid of the abhorred stupid bendy-buses.Replacing them with;
As a Mayor he seems to work. He is in the Rudi Giuliani model from New York. Make a few key electoral promises, keep them and make sure everybody knows.
As PM material I would have to question his style though.
Having a comedic leader can only be viewed poorly by other world leaders. Boris as our rep at a G8 conference would be a disaster.
Italy can get away with having a clown, the UK cannot.
Pesty said:
Is that it? all you can think of?
Ok I'm sure this is popular I've heard people talk of it but was it good to do?
how much did it cost
do they run on time
are they easy to use
are they always full.
etc etc
Not enough of them in service yet, but the indications are that timekeeping is better because they can go round corners properly, fare dodging is right down because the new buses run with a conductor, they don't kill so many cyclists, and they're less prone to catching on fire. All benefits I'm sure you'll agree. Ok I'm sure this is popular I've heard people talk of it but was it good to do?
how much did it cost
do they run on time
are they easy to use
are they always full.
etc etc
davepoth said:
Not enough of them in service yet, but the indications are that timekeeping is better because they can go round corners properly, fare dodging is right down because the new buses run with a conductor, they don't kill so many cyclists, and they're less prone to catching on fire. All benefits I'm sure you'll agree.
Interesting post from Dave Hill (despite my previous criticism of him for Boris-bashing he does post some interesting stuff) on the costs of the new buses.Basically, the cost is between £300K and £315K, and each new bus would cost £330K.
Also, re. the claim that they're death on wheels to cyclists, see here. Boris Watch is obviously anti, but the point is that no cyclists were killed by bendy buses.
I can't comment on their timekeeping as I don't use buses generally.
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