Brexit: would you change your vote.
Discussion
The Remain side lost but the political class refuse to accept the result.
Our politicians live in their Westminster bubble. They are so focused on 'their' politics that they have, perhaps, forgotten that they are 'sent' to the House of Commons by their constituents.
Yes, in simple terms the referendum was 52:48 but had the referendum result been reported BY CONSTITUENCY then there was a far greater mandate for LEAVE.
By constituency only 230 out of 632 constituencies voted REMAIN
whereas 402 out of 632 voted LEAVE
That is a margin of 64:36
Source: Professor Chris Hanretty's analysis of the referendum result, if you'd care to check
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b71SDKPFbk...
Additional evidence
https://fullfact.org/europe/did-majority-conservat...
70% Conservative constituencies & 60% of Labour constituencies voted leave
footnote: Professor Hanretty's figure are for England, Scotland & Wales. NI has a different electoral system
Our politicians live in their Westminster bubble. They are so focused on 'their' politics that they have, perhaps, forgotten that they are 'sent' to the House of Commons by their constituents.
Yes, in simple terms the referendum was 52:48 but had the referendum result been reported BY CONSTITUENCY then there was a far greater mandate for LEAVE.
By constituency only 230 out of 632 constituencies voted REMAIN
whereas 402 out of 632 voted LEAVE
That is a margin of 64:36
Source: Professor Chris Hanretty's analysis of the referendum result, if you'd care to check
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b71SDKPFbk...
Additional evidence
https://fullfact.org/europe/did-majority-conservat...
70% Conservative constituencies & 60% of Labour constituencies voted leave
footnote: Professor Hanretty's figure are for England, Scotland & Wales. NI has a different electoral system
Voted leave first time and would vote leave again second time around.
Just like last time, my preference is for a straight-forward leave with no deal. I'd quite happily be a little worse off for 5 years or so, as long as it meant the UK was properly out of the EU project. Trade will sort itself out whatever happens - business and individuals will always (and usually quite swiftly) figure out a way to make sure trade continues one way or another. The economic impact on the UK of a Corbyn government would make Brexit with no trade deal, pale into insignificance. Frankly, I'm amazed that so many people seem far more alarmed about a no deal Brexit than this very real and frightening possibility.
And, just because our current government (and official opposition) are a bunch of useless idiots at the moment, doesn't mean that better ones won't come to the fore in coming years. I'd much rather we faced the future with a strong, dynamic and UK focussed government that is completely free from all the limitations of a political project that we have little meaningful influence over.
If there is one thing that I have learnt from the last two years that has hardened my resolve, it's that the EU only exists to fulfil its own political objectives. If it truly had its member nations interests at heart, then a mutually beneficial free trade agreement could have been concluded well within the time frame.
Just like last time, my preference is for a straight-forward leave with no deal. I'd quite happily be a little worse off for 5 years or so, as long as it meant the UK was properly out of the EU project. Trade will sort itself out whatever happens - business and individuals will always (and usually quite swiftly) figure out a way to make sure trade continues one way or another. The economic impact on the UK of a Corbyn government would make Brexit with no trade deal, pale into insignificance. Frankly, I'm amazed that so many people seem far more alarmed about a no deal Brexit than this very real and frightening possibility.
And, just because our current government (and official opposition) are a bunch of useless idiots at the moment, doesn't mean that better ones won't come to the fore in coming years. I'd much rather we faced the future with a strong, dynamic and UK focussed government that is completely free from all the limitations of a political project that we have little meaningful influence over.
If there is one thing that I have learnt from the last two years that has hardened my resolve, it's that the EU only exists to fulfil its own political objectives. If it truly had its member nations interests at heart, then a mutually beneficial free trade agreement could have been concluded well within the time frame.
garagewidow said:
bodhi said:
I was 60/40 for Leave at the time of the referendum, but seeing how the EU have behaved in the negotiations, and with rumblings of tax harmonisation and a European Army, it's now about 90/10 in favour of Leave.
Same here,the slow reveal of EU intentions has made me more leave.techiedave said:
Didn't vote leave as worried my phone bill would go up and we wouldn't be able to play in the European league or eurovision
Come on techie.........Wouldn't you have voted whatever way Diane asked you to?https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/01/diane-abbott...
"This was evidenced last month (Dianne Abbott) took to the Andrew Marr show to claim that Labour had never supported a second referendum – despite writing to a constituent to say she would argue for the ‘right of the electorate to vote on any deal that is finally agreed’."
alfaspecial said:
The Remain side lost but the political class refuse to accept the result.
Our politicians live in their Westminster bubble. They are so focused on 'their' politics that they have, perhaps, forgotten that they are 'sent' to the House of Commons by their constituents.
Yes, in simple terms the referendum was 52:48 but had the referendum result been reported BY CONSTITUENCY then there was a far greater mandate for LEAVE.
By constituency only 230 out of 632 constituencies voted REMAIN
whereas 402 out of 632 voted LEAVE
That is a margin of 64:36
Source: Professor Chris Hanretty's analysis of the referendum result, if you'd care to check
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b71SDKPFbk...
Additional evidence
https://fullfact.org/europe/did-majority-conservat...
70% Conservative constituencies & 60% of Labour constituencies voted leave
footnote: Professor Hanretty's figure are for England, Scotland & Wales. NI has a different electoral system
I’m not sure what the point of your post is the vote was 52:48% in favour of leave. Trying to analyse in any other way is pretty pointless and will lead into comparisons of wealth creating/ taking areas, educational attainmment etc etc. Our politicians live in their Westminster bubble. They are so focused on 'their' politics that they have, perhaps, forgotten that they are 'sent' to the House of Commons by their constituents.
Yes, in simple terms the referendum was 52:48 but had the referendum result been reported BY CONSTITUENCY then there was a far greater mandate for LEAVE.
By constituency only 230 out of 632 constituencies voted REMAIN
whereas 402 out of 632 voted LEAVE
That is a margin of 64:36
Source: Professor Chris Hanretty's analysis of the referendum result, if you'd care to check
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b71SDKPFbk...
Additional evidence
https://fullfact.org/europe/did-majority-conservat...
70% Conservative constituencies & 60% of Labour constituencies voted leave
footnote: Professor Hanretty's figure are for England, Scotland & Wales. NI has a different electoral system
They may be interesting but completely irrelevant.
For the record I would not change my vote as this debacle as turned out much as I had expected, already impacted growth and inflation negatively and cost business (employers) significant sunk costs.
I voted remain but now our politicians have shown their weak hand to the EU, we couldn't reverse course. There isn't one politician with any integrity amongst them, or even one politician with any conviction. The EU would only let us remain if we adhered to more of their control. Can you imagine what they'd say if we went back to them and asked to stay? Membership fees would increase, our discount would be removed, and I'm sure they'd want us to join the Euro.
All of the negotiating power that Mrs T built up for us would evaporate.
But to leave and be stuck with *only* our home-grown bunch of self-absorbed shysters horrifies me just as much as giving more ground to the EU. We will either be left with "La La La not listening" May and her bickering children, or comrade Corbyn.
Actually, Corbyn scares me the most.
The whole affair has been a complete f
k up.
I voted to remain because no-one was able to describe what leaving was going to mean. I hated paying money into their club but I enjoyed the benefits of free movement and consistent mobile phone charges. I was also not personally disadvantaged by being in the EU. Leaving was unknown, and now that our fabulous negotiators have left us with the worst of all worlds, I will likely share in our collective disadvantage.
All of the negotiating power that Mrs T built up for us would evaporate.
But to leave and be stuck with *only* our home-grown bunch of self-absorbed shysters horrifies me just as much as giving more ground to the EU. We will either be left with "La La La not listening" May and her bickering children, or comrade Corbyn.
Actually, Corbyn scares me the most.
The whole affair has been a complete f
k up.I voted to remain because no-one was able to describe what leaving was going to mean. I hated paying money into their club but I enjoyed the benefits of free movement and consistent mobile phone charges. I was also not personally disadvantaged by being in the EU. Leaving was unknown, and now that our fabulous negotiators have left us with the worst of all worlds, I will likely share in our collective disadvantage.
Casa1862 said:
Leave MP's should have stepped up for the top job when they had a chance, can't moan about it now. Boris bottle it, Leadsome tried and lasted five minutes, JRM just all talk.
I can't see them doing any better. In fact, I can imagine the likes of Boris saying something like, "Listen up, you stupid Kraut lovers, give us what we want... or else!" (cue shaking fist) And we'll probably get something that's even worse than any of the things May has got for us.Watchman said:
I voted remain but now our politicians have shown their weak hand to the EU, we couldn't reverse course. There isn't one politician with any integrity amongst them, or even one politician with any conviction. The EU would only let us remain if we adhered to more of their control. Can you imagine what they'd say if we went back to them and asked to stay? Membership fees would increase, our discount would be removed, and I'm sure they'd want us to join the Euro.
According to that - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec...We could simply stick two fingers up at whomever and stay put unchanged. I can't quite see it being that smooth though. Even if we stayed in, our interactions would be coloured and crippled by all this froth for eternity.
Voted leave but at the time of making my vote I really did think about changing my mind.
I knew at the time is was going to be hard work and cause a st storm and potentially cost financially.
But now after all the crying and complaining by certain types of people and the fact that would have been made to have another vote I wouldn't think twice about voting leave now.
Add that to the fact it would make our nation look like a complete and utter joke and failure if we go crawling back. And the utter smug arrogant reaction we would get off the likes of the Germans and French.
I knew at the time is was going to be hard work and cause a s
t storm and potentially cost financially.But now after all the crying and complaining by certain types of people and the fact that would have been made to have another vote I wouldn't think twice about voting leave now.
Add that to the fact it would make our nation look like a complete and utter joke and failure if we go crawling back. And the utter smug arrogant reaction we would get off the likes of the Germans and French.
Watchman said:
I voted remain but now our politicians have shown their weak hand to the EU, we couldn't reverse course. There isn't one politician with any integrity amongst them, or even one politician with any conviction. The EU would only let us remain if we adhered to more of their control. Can you imagine what they'd say if we went back to them and asked to stay? Membership fees would increase, our discount would be removed, and I'm sure they'd want us to join the Euro.
All of the negotiating power that Mrs T built up for us would evaporate.
But to leave and be stuck with *only* our home-grown bunch of self-absorbed shysters horrifies me just as much as giving more ground to the EU. We will either be left with "La La La not listening" May and her bickering children, or comrade Corbyn.
Actually, Corbyn scares me the most.
The whole affair has been a complete fk up.
I voted to remain because no-one was able to describe what leaving was going to mean. I hated paying money into their club but I enjoyed the benefits of free movement and consistent mobile phone charges. I was also not personally disadvantaged by being in the EU. Leaving was unknown, and now that our fabulous negotiators have left us with the worst of all worlds, I will likely share in our collective disadvantage.
Don't know if you've read the news recently, but it turns out the EU's top legal guy thinks we can just revoke the A.50, without permission from anyone else, and no need to negotiate any terms to remain. All of the negotiating power that Mrs T built up for us would evaporate.
But to leave and be stuck with *only* our home-grown bunch of self-absorbed shysters horrifies me just as much as giving more ground to the EU. We will either be left with "La La La not listening" May and her bickering children, or comrade Corbyn.
Actually, Corbyn scares me the most.
The whole affair has been a complete f
k up.I voted to remain because no-one was able to describe what leaving was going to mean. I hated paying money into their club but I enjoyed the benefits of free movement and consistent mobile phone charges. I was also not personally disadvantaged by being in the EU. Leaving was unknown, and now that our fabulous negotiators have left us with the worst of all worlds, I will likely share in our collective disadvantage.
Nickgnome said:
I’m not sure what the point of your post is the vote was 52:48% in favour of leave. Trying to analyse in any other way is pretty pointless and will lead into comparisons of wealth creating/ taking areas, educational attainmment etc etc.
They may be interesting but completely irrelevant.
For the record I would not change my vote as this debacle as turned out much as I had expected, already impacted growth and inflation negatively and cost business (employers) significant sunk costs.
Remain decided the timing, the question and the reporting. It's obvious that had the mandate been reported by constituency, as we so-say have in our so-say parliamentary democracy then a 64:36 vote IS conclusive. They may be interesting but completely irrelevant.
For the record I would not change my vote as this debacle as turned out much as I had expected, already impacted growth and inflation negatively and cost business (employers) significant sunk costs.
Yet the Remain side are fixed on 52:48
Would you not agree that if parliamentarians reflected the views of their constituents then we would not be in the mess we are in today.
Two questions I'd be interested in hearing your answer to:
1) Would YOU be debating this had the result been 52:48 in favour of Remain?
2) Or would you just tell us Leavers to STFU?
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff