Sir Ed Davey and the Post Office scandal
Discussion
anonymoususer said:
Could you ask him if he has any piccies of Jo Swinson in casual wear at any social gatherings he and she as leader attended.
It's for a friend and he would be very grateful.
Thanks
He has and wants to know if you’d consider a straight swap for your Coffey collection? It's for a friend and he would be very grateful.
Thanks
Blue62 said:
DeejRC said:
Nobody had heard of Vennells until the tv show.
Ed is the leader of a national political party.
I must have missed Vennells running for Parliament or Downing Street.
Hence the topic being on Ed rather than some other person none of you had heard about or cared before last week. And no, you hadn’t or didn’t care about them because none of you had mentioned them before.
I think however, you may take it as read that Vennells is quite probably public enemy no1 in the UK atm. Ed D - as per normal - is generally ignored.
Speak for yourself, plenty of people were aware of the Horizon project and it’s been in the news on and off for a few years now. I worked in the IT sector so maybe had more awareness, but there have been calls for Vennells to be investigated for some time, leading to her standing down in 2019. Davey was minister for two years on a scandal that started in 1999, this thread is as ridiculous as your post. Ed is the leader of a national political party.
I must have missed Vennells running for Parliament or Downing Street.
Hence the topic being on Ed rather than some other person none of you had heard about or cared before last week. And no, you hadn’t or didn’t care about them because none of you had mentioned them before.
I think however, you may take it as read that Vennells is quite probably public enemy no1 in the UK atm. Ed D - as per normal - is generally ignored.
Oh wait, nope. I’m shocked.
Perhaps you have conducted a one man awareness raising campaign on here?
Nope? I’m shocked again!
The thread isn’t ridiculous because well, again…Sir Ed, leader of the Lib Dems, etc etc. It’s 86 being 86 yes, and frankly Sir Ed is less relevant than the Under Secretary of the Darwin U9 chess club, but the pt remains valid.
DeejRC said:
Yes, Im sure there are many posts calling for the defenestration of Vennells on here.
Oh wait, nope. I’m shocked.
Perhaps you have conducted a one man awareness raising campaign on here?
Nope? I’m shocked again!
The thread isn’t ridiculous because well, again…Sir Ed, leader of the Lib Dems, etc etc. It’s 86 being 86 yes, and frankly Sir Ed is less relevant than the Under Secretary of the Darwin U9 chess club, but the pt remains valid.
Jesus, you think PH is the barometer of public opinion and the last word in awareness? Get a grip. Oh wait, nope. I’m shocked.
Perhaps you have conducted a one man awareness raising campaign on here?
Nope? I’m shocked again!
The thread isn’t ridiculous because well, again…Sir Ed, leader of the Lib Dems, etc etc. It’s 86 being 86 yes, and frankly Sir Ed is less relevant than the Under Secretary of the Darwin U9 chess club, but the pt remains valid.
DeejRC said:
Yes, Im sure there are many posts calling for the defenestration of Vennells on here.
Oh wait, nope. I’m shocked.
Perhaps you have conducted a one man awareness raising campaign on here?
Nope? I’m shocked again!
The thread isn’t ridiculous because well, again…Sir Ed, leader of the Lib Dems, etc etc. It’s 86 being 86 yes, and frankly Sir Ed is less relevant than the Under Secretary of the Darwin U9 chess club, but the pt remains valid.
Er, there are: Oh wait, nope. I’m shocked.
Perhaps you have conducted a one man awareness raising campaign on here?
Nope? I’m shocked again!
The thread isn’t ridiculous because well, again…Sir Ed, leader of the Lib Dems, etc etc. It’s 86 being 86 yes, and frankly Sir Ed is less relevant than the Under Secretary of the Darwin U9 chess club, but the pt remains valid.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Edited by Flooble on Friday 5th January 18:33
dmsims said:
That's good. So is the news that the Post Office is being investigated by police over “potential fraud offences” committed during the Horizon IT scandal.turbobloke said:
dmsims said:
That's good. So is the news that the Post Office is being investigated by police over “potential fraud offences” committed during the Horizon IT scandal.Ed says 'There were definitely attempts to stop me meeting campaigners' .... if he had a moral bone in his body and he did his job, just pick up the bl**dy phone!! He needs to stand down and hang his head in shame.
Long way to go but lets get behind this petition
Strip Ed Davey of his knighthood:
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/post-office...
Long way to go but lets get behind this petition
Strip Ed Davey of his knighthood:
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/post-office...
Waste of police time. Even Robert Maxwell's sons, senior directors of Mirror Group, managed to sidestep the whole company collapse with a defence of "we were all in charge but didn't know what daddy was doing". Meanwhile their sister is serving a long sentence for something that was easier for a jury to understand.
For this Post Office matter a jury would have to understand (a) the computer software, (b) the accounting system, and (c) where management responsibility might lie.
The proper remedy is in the civil courts with a humungous claim for damages and an easier standard of proof, namely "on the balance of probabilities". The must be lawyers queueing up to run that on a no win, no fee basis.
For this Post Office matter a jury would have to understand (a) the computer software, (b) the accounting system, and (c) where management responsibility might lie.
The proper remedy is in the civil courts with a humungous claim for damages and an easier standard of proof, namely "on the balance of probabilities". The must be lawyers queueing up to run that on a no win, no fee basis.
Panamax said:
Waste of police time. Even Robert Maxwell's sons, senior directors of Mirror Group, managed to sidestep the whole company collapse with a defence of "we were all in charge but didn't know what daddy was doing". Meanwhile their sister is serving a long sentence for something that was easier for a jury to understand.
For this Post Office matter a jury would have to understand (a) the computer software, (b) the accounting system, and (c) where management responsibility might lie.
The proper remedy is in the civil courts with a humungous claim for damages and an easier standard of proof, namely "on the balance of probabilities". The must be lawyers queueing up to run that on a no win, no fee basis.
but they were't MPs. Davey has to go, period. He is a pissant. For this Post Office matter a jury would have to understand (a) the computer software, (b) the accounting system, and (c) where management responsibility might lie.
The proper remedy is in the civil courts with a humungous claim for damages and an easier standard of proof, namely "on the balance of probabilities". The must be lawyers queueing up to run that on a no win, no fee basis.
biggles330d said:
turbobloke said:
dmsims said:
That's good. So is the news that the Post Office is being investigated by police over “potential fraud offences” committed during the Horizon IT scandal.In addition to the alleged culpability of the PO management and the IT system creators, the court system should be investigated at well. It was well known, even when court cases were pending, that there was something corrupt in the process. It had been a feature for some time in Private Eye. For juries to find defendants guilty indicates that it cannot cope with IT and other technical evidence. That the judge didn't direct the jury to find not guilty shows that they didn't either.
It can happen to you and, more importantly, it can happen to me and mine. Some person in glasses and unruly hair steps into the box, gives the corporate view, and everyone believes them because counter arguments cannot be produced because they don't share the techy bits. Courts believe specialists.
I was in a courts user group where one lawyer went on about evidence adduced by the likes of police, fire service and others, that is accepted by courts unless it can be shown to be faulty by the defence. Yet some of the cast iron and well-researched conclusions were completed by some guys fifty years previously. No individual has the wherewithal to challenge, so they don't. You can't say the specialists' conclusions were wrong because, in cases like IT, you can't investigate.
The courts came to the wrong conclusions. They failed in their one job.
It can happen to you and, more importantly, it can happen to me and mine. Some person in glasses and unruly hair steps into the box, gives the corporate view, and everyone believes them because counter arguments cannot be produced because they don't share the techy bits. Courts believe specialists.
I was in a courts user group where one lawyer went on about evidence adduced by the likes of police, fire service and others, that is accepted by courts unless it can be shown to be faulty by the defence. Yet some of the cast iron and well-researched conclusions were completed by some guys fifty years previously. No individual has the wherewithal to challenge, so they don't. You can't say the specialists' conclusions were wrong because, in cases like IT, you can't investigate.
The courts came to the wrong conclusions. They failed in their one job.
smn159 said:
Southerner said:
A Yahoo news article popped up yesterday, suggesting that the petition for Vennells to lose her gong has been swelled (not surprisingly) by the TV drama. Now surging towards half a million and well worth adding to, in my opinion. Admittedly it isn’t quite the guilty PO and Fujitsu criminals rotting in prison where they belong, but it’s a start.
News article here:
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/petition-to-strip-ex-pos...
Petition here:
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/strip-paula...
Signed.News article here:
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/petition-to-strip-ex-pos...
Petition here:
https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/strip-paula...
You have to wonder what sort of figure might eventually lead to Vennells handing back her gong of her own accord, if nothing else to try and get the heat off of her. A million people signing up for you to have it taken off you can’t be overly pleasant surely?!
hidetheelephants said:
The RM having the power of private prosecution created a conflict of interest right off the bat.
Legal point, it was the Post Office prosecuting not RM, and they don't have any more powers than you or I. The documentary was a bit naughty for implying that they had special powers.Gareth79 said:
hidetheelephants said:
The RM having the power of private prosecution created a conflict of interest right off the bat.
Legal point, it was the Post Office prosecuting not RM, and they don't have any more powers than you or I. The documentary was a bit naughty for implying that they had special powers.
tty evidence presented. The powers they apparently don't have are an anachronism that should have been abolished at privatisation, if not before.sugerbear said:
Maybe Simon Blagden (ex Fujitsu) who donated ££ to the conservatives and also ended up with a CBE and a nice government job might like to hand back his CBE and the tories might like to donate the money they received from him to those convicted of
The Rt Hon Norman Lamb 2 years in post after Sir Ed Davey
Or Jo Swinson
or Jenny Wilmot.
They are all Lib dems.
Makes you wonder if the conservatives knew full well that giving these toxic posts to the opposition would be useful long term as they could gain some political points by pointing out that it was all the fault of the lib dems for not resolving the issue.
Times are running an article blaming the lib dems. The Rt Hon Norman Lamb 2 years in post after Sir Ed Davey
Or Jo Swinson
or Jenny Wilmot.
They are all Lib dems.
Makes you wonder if the conservatives knew full well that giving these toxic posts to the opposition would be useful long term as they could gain some political points by pointing out that it was all the fault of the lib dems for not resolving the issue.
No mention of the current lot who have been in charge for the past 13 yesrs (or labour) being in any way responsible.
Gareth79 said:
hidetheelephants said:
The RM having the power of private prosecution created a conflict of interest right off the bat.
Legal point, it was the Post Office prosecuting not RM, and they don't have any more powers than you or I. The documentary was a bit naughty for implying that they had special powers."It (RM) was granted access to the Police National Computer system for intelligence and prosecution purposes. It had financial investigators appointed by the National Crime Agency for the purposes of undertaking financial investigations for restraint and confiscation proceedings, and Royal Mail Group was included within the list of “Relevant Public Authorities” under the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 designated to grant authorisations for the carrying out of directed surveillance to investigate crime."
https://insights.doughtystreet.co.uk/post/102gtzh/...
Blue62 said:
I’d forgotten all about Freelance Informer, thank you!
Off topic - those were great days! I was a COBOL/VMS/DecForms/SQL contractor. It was mental; want a contract? Open Freelance Informer, see a contract, mail(!!!!) or fax your cv. Get contract on £50 or £60 an hour (good money in those days plus still billions of tax avoidance techniques). Happy days!One thing that I feel is getting lost here amongst the clammer for the board and CEO and politicians to be held to account (and rightly so) is the part played by hundreds of "normal" people at all levels and departments that without their willingness to go along with the lies and corruption this could never have happened.
Often we just want to go for the bosses and whilst that should happen those that followed instructions that were clearly illegal and immoral also need holding to account
I don't want any of them to get away with it, from the liars on the help desk all the way through to the CEO.
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