Gunmen attack prison van in France, free pris, kill guards
Discussion
Tango13 said:
He was facing some serious charges relating to a kidnapping and death? Makes me wonder if he was going to talk to reduce his sentence so the gang grabbed him to prevent him talking, maybe he's already been 'silenced' by the gang?
That makes sense. There are a lot of different levels of vehicle, used by the penal administration, that can be seen on the roads in France. If he really was a drugs gang master criminal then he would probably been transported in a higher level of secure vehicle and supporting armed entourage.However if silencing him was the goal then a bullet in the head, on the spot, would have led to a simpler exit from the scene.
CrgT16 said:
We should have a special skill unit separate from police to tackle this seriously. The segregation from mainstream police is needed to minimise risk of corruption. It needs serious thinking.
What - like MI5? Feel desperately sorry for the guards who were effectively executed. Atleast one of them was young and leaves 2 young children behind.
I used to love Paris - but for over a decade it's not the city it once was. Hopefully they can track these scum down quickly - but it wouldn't surprise me if they just vanish.
croyde said:
I can't get my head around shooting the guards.
Surely pointing a weapon and shouting would have been enough for compliance. Can't see that the guards would have been paid enough to risk their lives.
Did a guard shoot first?
A heck of a risk to give them a chance to surrender, they might just open up. So it's dispicable but not irrational.Surely pointing a weapon and shouting would have been enough for compliance. Can't see that the guards would have been paid enough to risk their lives.
Did a guard shoot first?
Abbott said:
Tango13 said:
He was facing some serious charges relating to a kidnapping and death? Makes me wonder if he was going to talk to reduce his sentence so the gang grabbed him to prevent him talking, maybe he's already been 'silenced' by the gang?
That makes sense. There are a lot of different levels of vehicle, used by the penal administration, that can be seen on the roads in France. If he really was a drugs gang master criminal then he would probably been transported in a higher level of secure vehicle and supporting armed entourage.However if silencing him was the goal then a bullet in the head, on the spot, would have led to a simpler exit from the scene.
Execute him on the spot and the minions will think 'If I get arrested I'm f
ked either way so may as well talk and take my chances' After one of the Paris / french shooting attrocities, (i cannot recall which), French police and security did something crazy like 6,000 raids on know addresses within a week or 10 days, and recovered 1500 odd illegal weapons, mostly guns.
It occurred to me that that is some strike rate, and at the beginning of the operation, they knew who all these people were and where they lived. And yet, just let them seemingly live in peace until nudged into action.
Shocking incident but there's st loads of guns in mainland Europe and plenty of nutjobs happy to use them.
It occurred to me that that is some strike rate, and at the beginning of the operation, they knew who all these people were and where they lived. And yet, just let them seemingly live in peace until nudged into action.
Shocking incident but there's s
t loads of guns in mainland Europe and plenty of nutjobs happy to use them. poo at Paul's said:
After one of the Paris / french shooting attrocities, (i cannot recall which), French police and security did something crazy like 6,000 raids on know addresses within a week or 10 days, and recovered 1500 odd illegal weapons, mostly guns.
It occurred to me that that is some strike rate, and at the beginning of the operation, they knew who all these people were and where they lived. And yet, just let them seemingly live in peace until nudged into action.
Shocking incident but there's st loads of guns in mainland Europe and plenty of nutjobs happy to use them.
I am not suggesting that there are no go areas in the banlieu around Paris but these areas do have to be treated cautiously. There a number of incidents where police have provoked a backlash, leading to weeks of demonstrations, vehicles set on fire etc etc. Having said that given a clear situation like this there is not the same level anti police feeling so they just go in and kick the doors down.It occurred to me that that is some strike rate, and at the beginning of the operation, they knew who all these people were and where they lived. And yet, just let them seemingly live in peace until nudged into action.
Shocking incident but there's s
t loads of guns in mainland Europe and plenty of nutjobs happy to use them. Abbott said:
poo at Paul's said:
After one of the Paris / french shooting attrocities, (i cannot recall which), French police and security did something crazy like 6,000 raids on know addresses within a week or 10 days, and recovered 1500 odd illegal weapons, mostly guns.
It occurred to me that that is some strike rate, and at the beginning of the operation, they knew who all these people were and where they lived. And yet, just let them seemingly live in peace until nudged into action.
Shocking incident but there's st loads of guns in mainland Europe and plenty of nutjobs happy to use them.
I am not suggesting that there are no go areas in the banlieu around Paris but these areas do have to be treated cautiously. There a number of incidents where police have provoked a backlash, leading to weeks of demonstrations, vehicles set on fire etc etc. Having said that given a clear situation like this there is not the same level anti police feeling so they just go in and kick the doors down.It occurred to me that that is some strike rate, and at the beginning of the operation, they knew who all these people were and where they lived. And yet, just let them seemingly live in peace until nudged into action.
Shocking incident but there's s
t loads of guns in mainland Europe and plenty of nutjobs happy to use them. poo at Paul's said:
So whilst they ognore what is right in front of their faces for years and years, things like this happen. If they were out doing 10 days of kicking doors in once a month or so, there would be far less weapons out there.
This sounds a bit like Liverpool. Could it be more about letting the lower level crims go so they can go after the big bosses?poo at Paul's said:
Abbott said:
poo at Paul's said:
After one of the Paris / french shooting attrocities, (i cannot recall which), French police and security did something crazy like 6,000 raids on know addresses within a week or 10 days, and recovered 1500 odd illegal weapons, mostly guns.
It occurred to me that that is some strike rate, and at the beginning of the operation, they knew who all these people were and where they lived. And yet, just let them seemingly live in peace until nudged into action.
Shocking incident but there's st loads of guns in mainland Europe and plenty of nutjobs happy to use them.
I am not suggesting that there are no go areas in the banlieu around Paris but these areas do have to be treated cautiously. There a number of incidents where police have provoked a backlash, leading to weeks of demonstrations, vehicles set on fire etc etc. Having said that given a clear situation like this there is not the same level anti police feeling so they just go in and kick the doors down.It occurred to me that that is some strike rate, and at the beginning of the operation, they knew who all these people were and where they lived. And yet, just let them seemingly live in peace until nudged into action.
Shocking incident but there's s
t loads of guns in mainland Europe and plenty of nutjobs happy to use them. poo at Paul's said:
After one of the Paris / french shooting attrocities, (i cannot recall which), French police and security did something crazy like 6,000 raids on know addresses within a week or 10 days, and recovered 1500 odd illegal weapons, mostly guns.
It occurred to me that that is some strike rate, and at the beginning of the operation, they knew who all these people were and where they lived. And yet, just let them seemingly live in peace until nudged into action.
[pure speculation] It occurred to me that that is some strike rate, and at the beginning of the operation, they knew who all these people were and where they lived. And yet, just let them seemingly live in peace until nudged into action.
Maybe they keep a close eye on, but don't arrest the lower orders who just have a gun for 'protection' who, if they use it at all, would only likely be shooting other gang members, in the hope it will lead them to the bigger fish in the organisation who pose a bigger threat to real people?
Similar logic to not always arresting users and low level drug dealers
However if that is what they do, clearly it didn't work this time
[/pure speculation]
What a wretched, brutal thing though. The criminals were absolutely not messing about, and hopefully the French authorities are similarly robust in catching and dealing with them.
Tango13 said:
He was facing some serious charges relating to a kidnapping and death? Makes me wonder if he was going to talk to reduce his sentence so the gang grabbed him to prevent him talking, maybe he's already been 'silenced' by the gang?
One would think it is easier to use a gang member already inside to "silence" him rather than stage an ambush of prison vehicles using semi-automatic weapons and attract all that publicity if that were the objective.g4ry13 said:
Tango13 said:
He was facing some serious charges relating to a kidnapping and death? Makes me wonder if he was going to talk to reduce his sentence so the gang grabbed him to prevent him talking, maybe he's already been 'silenced' by the gang?
One would think it is easier to use a gang member already inside to "silence" him rather than stage an ambush of prison vehicles using semi-automatic weapons and attract all that publicity if that were the objective.Equally if you genuinely want to rescue him you still get the fringe benefit that he won't dob you in.
Edited by BikeBikeBIke on Wednesday 15th May 12:57
RSbandit said:
Hunt the perpetrators down and bury them …only way to send a message to such scum.
Given the level of violence in the attack it would be no surprise that the police will deploy with maximum lethal force to get them.Just hope that no innocent people get caught up in it all.
Earthdweller said:
It’s hard to tell but it doesn’t look like a fully armoured transport van, just a normal soft skin one
From the video there only seems to be one escorting vehicle following behind, not a full protection bubble around it
It doesn’t look like a very high risk prisoner movement to me
It seems maybe the risk assessment was wrong
I thought very much the same! It seems an odd concept, lightly armoured and very little protection yet running on blue lights. Here we seem to do either ‘bog standard’ in a van on its own, or high security with a hell of a convoy - surely a prisoner is either a risk or not?!From the video there only seems to be one escorting vehicle following behind, not a full protection bubble around it
It doesn’t look like a very high risk prisoner movement to me
It seems maybe the risk assessment was wrong
Southerner said:
Earthdweller said:
It’s hard to tell but it doesn’t look like a fully armoured transport van, just a normal soft skin one
From the video there only seems to be one escorting vehicle following behind, not a full protection bubble around it
It doesn’t look like a very high risk prisoner movement to me
It seems maybe the risk assessment was wrong
I thought very much the same! It seems an odd concept, lightly armoured and very little protection yet running on blue lights. Here we seem to do either ‘bog standard’ in a van on its own, or high security with a hell of a convoy - surely a prisoner is either a risk or not?!From the video there only seems to be one escorting vehicle following behind, not a full protection bubble around it
It doesn’t look like a very high risk prisoner movement to me
It seems maybe the risk assessment was wrong
All are risk assessed and there have been mistakes and prisoners have been released but very rare
For high risk and very high risk there are a range of options .. from high speed covert runs, through CAT A convoys to defendants appearing via video link from prisons or one of the court rooms inside the high security designated counter terrorist cell blocks within certain police stations dotted across the country
One thing for certain a U.K. CAT A convoy would never be in such a vulnerable position and have very significant fire power to respond to any attack
This is a UK CAT A convoy for comparison - A dozen plus vehicles all filled with rifle armed Police, plus cut-off groups etc for the highest category Crims.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwlbpsox298
So whilst the UK has had attacks on much lower class (CAT C etc) "convoys", where there's just a prison Van and nothing else, a full on CAT A convoy is a different kettle of fish!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwlbpsox298
So whilst the UK has had attacks on much lower class (CAT C etc) "convoys", where there's just a prison Van and nothing else, a full on CAT A convoy is a different kettle of fish!
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