Why will you be voting Labour?
Discussion
I think this is a problem of time and age.
Time, for thirteen years Brown has been in the real highest job in the land, chancellor, that is why Blair was willing to go to war, it showed him to be 'bigger' than Brown, who had from almost day one shown his hand as the real premier player in the UK, it even took some nastiness recently between Darling and Brown for Brown to get his hand off the mechanism he built from day one at the Exchequer.
I was made aware of 'Fortress Brown' back in 1999, it swamped every decision in the cabinet and at first Blair walked the battlements of the fortress 'thinking' he was in charge, the 'patrician' smile he cast over Brown soon turned to a sneer with genuine loathing in the end because, he became increasingly a puppet in Browns hands. [Think 'Wizard of Oz] with Brown behind the Curtain and Blair on the screen and you really do have an exact view of how it really was.
Now age.
This has gone on for 13 years in one form or another until Darling made an enemy of Brown by getting a little of his own way.
That time is important, most people I have known did not become interested in politics until sometime in their 20s, so anyone unless prepared to do serious research is going to at least partially unaware that the above situation has persisted for so long.
So 'dismissing' anyone offhandedly for thinking it can't be Brown 'what did it' is a real possibility, this may be what we see here with Labour voters, anyone perhaps under 40 years of age is prone to not seeing some or all of what I have outlined [in brief] above.
Now Daztay maybe any age [I have no idea] but perhaps he is in the demographic where it is only in this election his interest has been raised, it is up to us [as the politicians have not chosen to mention the Machiavellian intrigues for fear of it tarring their own skin] to explain thoughtfully [and honestly] why WE the people who won't, even under pain of death, vote labour.
I maybe wrong, Daztay maybe over 40 and/or a political beast, who knows.
But having seen this Labour Government from glorious start to [please, dear lord] humiliating finish I will try to explain why I am where I am.
To use the only car analogy that comes to mind, Daztay is driving toward a humpback bridge, we are on the other side and there is a bloody huge hole in the road, we had no warning so we drove in that hole and wrecked our cars, what we do now is wave, jump up and down, shout and let off flairs to stop Daztay and his like taking us all down that bloody hole, we don't sulk , say nothing and just wait for him to be in our desperately unhappy situation.
That's my take.
Time, for thirteen years Brown has been in the real highest job in the land, chancellor, that is why Blair was willing to go to war, it showed him to be 'bigger' than Brown, who had from almost day one shown his hand as the real premier player in the UK, it even took some nastiness recently between Darling and Brown for Brown to get his hand off the mechanism he built from day one at the Exchequer.
I was made aware of 'Fortress Brown' back in 1999, it swamped every decision in the cabinet and at first Blair walked the battlements of the fortress 'thinking' he was in charge, the 'patrician' smile he cast over Brown soon turned to a sneer with genuine loathing in the end because, he became increasingly a puppet in Browns hands. [Think 'Wizard of Oz] with Brown behind the Curtain and Blair on the screen and you really do have an exact view of how it really was.
Now age.
This has gone on for 13 years in one form or another until Darling made an enemy of Brown by getting a little of his own way.
That time is important, most people I have known did not become interested in politics until sometime in their 20s, so anyone unless prepared to do serious research is going to at least partially unaware that the above situation has persisted for so long.
So 'dismissing' anyone offhandedly for thinking it can't be Brown 'what did it' is a real possibility, this may be what we see here with Labour voters, anyone perhaps under 40 years of age is prone to not seeing some or all of what I have outlined [in brief] above.
Now Daztay maybe any age [I have no idea] but perhaps he is in the demographic where it is only in this election his interest has been raised, it is up to us [as the politicians have not chosen to mention the Machiavellian intrigues for fear of it tarring their own skin] to explain thoughtfully [and honestly] why WE the people who won't, even under pain of death, vote labour.
I maybe wrong, Daztay maybe over 40 and/or a political beast, who knows.
But having seen this Labour Government from glorious start to [please, dear lord] humiliating finish I will try to explain why I am where I am.
To use the only car analogy that comes to mind, Daztay is driving toward a humpback bridge, we are on the other side and there is a bloody huge hole in the road, we had no warning so we drove in that hole and wrecked our cars, what we do now is wave, jump up and down, shout and let off flairs to stop Daztay and his like taking us all down that bloody hole, we don't sulk , say nothing and just wait for him to be in our desperately unhappy situation.
That's my take.
dazzztay said:
I think the country is pretty good though and Labour are in charge. Ive lived in other countries in Europe too and finally believe in the UK and prefer it here. Given the choice of Brown and his goverment or LD's i would choose Labour! The choice between Labour and the current conservative government and their policies i have to lean towards Labour because i just dont agree with the Conservatives.
Can I ask what specific Conservative policies stick in your throat?I've said it on other threads - what a lot of PH seem to miss is that Labour have left a lot of the country feeling pretty comfortable right now. We've got flat screen tellies, schools and hospitals that are basically working, there are jobs out there and our homes are still (largely) worth more than we paid for them.
Labour also talk in terms of social equality, support for the common man and other feel good phrases. It's all good stuff, and since they've been setting the agenda for the last 13 years, the other parties can't do much to sound 'more compassionate'.
Now, there are those who would point to the underlying issues - four pounds spent by the government for every three pounds raised, the hidden unemployed, the loss of local services, dodgy PFI deals, pensions, the burdens on small business, staffing of hospitals, the poor support for young working families and so on. But a lot of these don't directly affect huge numbers of the electorate. Who cares about how your boss is feeling, how the shiny new hospital round the corner was paid for, or even for personal things like your pension that won't start for another decade or two?
The average Joe really doesn't get involved in the vast infrastructure that runs the country, so they don't see how well or poorly it's running. If the bins are emptied and the trains run more or less on time, what is there to worry about?
Pommygranite said:
dazzztay said:
968 said:
dazzztay said:
stuff
stuffdazzztay said:
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Yes but we got into this position because of Brown in the first place, or didn't you realise that? You're probably taken in by that 'global recession' b
ks. Before the recession hit, our public spending was out of control. That was squarely down to Brown. If we'd had an election after Bliar left, we might not have been in this situation now. Again, if you aren't aware of these facts, you're about the only person in the country who is.
It's funny to see the stark contrasts in demographics though. Drive through the less fortunate parts of town with high percentages of benefit dependants and you'll see lots of vote Labour signs. Drive though the nicer parts of town and you'll see vote Conservative signs. People who want benefits will clearly vote Labour, they don't want to work for a living. Those who pay for their lifestyle themselves are sick and tired of being raped by the government.
cs02rm0 said:
dazzztay said:
I think the country is pretty good though
I guess that's what it comes down to - if you're ok with with the worst recession since the Great Depression and think it's just not perfect and you're quite comfortable with the person who by and large is solely responsible for it continuing to be responsible for the economic well being of the country.Personally, I cannot fathom how anyone could be ok with that.
It's almost worth voting for him just to see what whacky scheme and circuitous excuse he will dream up next.
bales said:
Einion Yrth said:
dazzztay said:
I might because 'better the devil you know' and i agree with their ideas more than the other parties. Also i dont hate Brown.
'Now bring on the hoards of abuse because im honest and dont hate Labour'
There's very little point in abusing simpletons.'Now bring on the hoards of abuse because im honest and dont hate Labour'
Why would someone want to explain their reasons for what party they are voting for when petty insults are the first thing anyone will say. If there was an intellectual debate then fair enough but as has been proved thats not what happens.
There is a large number of Labour supporters in this country. For all their faults, some people believe in them and the direction they're going.
By the law of averages, some of those people must be on here.
But they'll never speak up when their views are shot down in this way, or they're questioned by Labour haters about every policy or every decision in the last 13 years.
Ergo, this thread is a little futile.
968 said:
dazzztay said:
stuff
stuff about stuffdazzztay said:
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stuff about stuff dazzztay said:
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stuff about stuffI feel sympathy for Labour more than Conservatives because i agree with them more. I dont like the Conservative ideas and as such dont have sympathy for their 'previous'.
I agree with you, Labour should have used their majority for more change, they have disgraced themselves with scandals, they have taken us to dubious wars and they have wasted money. Others have disgraces themselves also. Conservatives wasted and still want to waste money IMO, Conservatives MP's backed the war(s) at the time also - it wasnt a 'labour only affair'.
What do you think i should do? I dont love Labour but dont want the change that the Conservatives or LibDems offer.
So are these the kind of people you want in charge of our nation?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/7628...
He sounds like a right prat.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/7628...
He sounds like a right prat.
dazzztay said:
Sorry for my spelling! I'm working on it - one of the failures of the schooling system!!!!!
I feel sympathy for Labour more than Conservatives because i agree with them more. I dont like the Conservative ideas and as such dont have sympathy for their 'previous'.
As has been asked of you by at least 2 other posters, what about the Conservatives policies do you disagree with?I feel sympathy for Labour more than Conservatives because i agree with them more. I dont like the Conservative ideas and as such dont have sympathy for their 'previous'.
dazzztay said:
I agree with you, Labour should have used their majority for more change, they have disgraced themselves with scandals, they have taken us to dubious wars and they have wasted money. Others have disgraces themselves also. Conservatives wasted and still want to waste money IMO, Conservatives MP's backed the war(s) at the time also - it wasnt a 'labour only affair'.
Yes but only the Labour MPs are using legal aid to defend themselves in corruption cases, which says it all about Labour. The Tories did back the war, based on the evidence presented to them, which we now know was a lie and manufactured by spin doctors in the Labour party. If the real evidence had been presented, I'm not sure they would have backed the decision to go into Iraq.dazzztay said:
What do you think i should do? I dont love Labour but dont want the change that the Conservatives or LibDems offer.
Again, what is it about the change on offer you don't agree with? I think you should wake up and see what's happened to this country and what the cause of it is, a big part of that malaise is due to Brown and his cronies. They need to go, and you should vote in a way that will enable that to happen.Political Pain said:
I think this is a problem of time and age.
Time, for thirteen years Brown has been in the real highest job in the land, chancellor, that is why Blair was willing to go to war, it showed him to be 'bigger' than Brown, who had from almost day one shown his hand as the real premier player in the UK, it even took some nastiness recently between Darling and Brown for Brown to get his hand off the mechanism he built from day one at the Exchequer.
I was made aware of 'Fortress Brown' back in 1999, it swamped every decision in the cabinet and at first Blair walked the battlements of the fortress 'thinking' he was in charge, the 'patrician' smile he cast over Brown soon turned to a sneer with genuine loathing in the end because, he became increasingly a puppet in Browns hands. [Think 'Wizard of Oz] with Brown behind the Curtain and Blair on the screen and you really do have an exact view of how it really was.
Now age.
This has gone on for 13 years in one form or another until Darling made an enemy of Brown by getting a little of his own way.
That time is important, most people I have known did not become interested in politics until sometime in their 20s, so anyone unless prepared to do serious research is going to at least partially unaware that the above situation has persisted for so long.
So 'dismissing' anyone offhandedly for thinking it can't be Brown 'what did it' is a real possibility, this may be what we see here with Labour voters, anyone perhaps under 40 years of age is prone to not seeing some or all of what I have outlined [in brief] above.
Now Daztay maybe any age [I have no idea] but perhaps he is in the demographic where it is only in this election his interest has been raised, it is up to us [as the politicians have not chosen to mention the Machiavellian intrigues for fear of it tarring their own skin] to explain thoughtfully [and honestly] why WE the people who won't, even under pain of death, vote labour.
I maybe wrong, Daztay maybe over 40 and/or a political beast, who knows.
But having seen this Labour Government from glorious start to [please, dear lord] humiliating finish I will try to explain why I am where I am.
To use the only car analogy that comes to mind, Daztay is driving toward a humpback bridge, we are on the other side and there is a bloody huge hole in the road, we had no warning so we drove in that hole and wrecked our cars, what we do now is wave, jump up and down, shout and let off flairs to stop Daztay and his like taking us all down that bloody hole, we don't sulk , say nothing and just wait for him to be in our desperately unhappy situation.
That's my take.
Time, for thirteen years Brown has been in the real highest job in the land, chancellor, that is why Blair was willing to go to war, it showed him to be 'bigger' than Brown, who had from almost day one shown his hand as the real premier player in the UK, it even took some nastiness recently between Darling and Brown for Brown to get his hand off the mechanism he built from day one at the Exchequer.
I was made aware of 'Fortress Brown' back in 1999, it swamped every decision in the cabinet and at first Blair walked the battlements of the fortress 'thinking' he was in charge, the 'patrician' smile he cast over Brown soon turned to a sneer with genuine loathing in the end because, he became increasingly a puppet in Browns hands. [Think 'Wizard of Oz] with Brown behind the Curtain and Blair on the screen and you really do have an exact view of how it really was.
Now age.
This has gone on for 13 years in one form or another until Darling made an enemy of Brown by getting a little of his own way.
That time is important, most people I have known did not become interested in politics until sometime in their 20s, so anyone unless prepared to do serious research is going to at least partially unaware that the above situation has persisted for so long.
So 'dismissing' anyone offhandedly for thinking it can't be Brown 'what did it' is a real possibility, this may be what we see here with Labour voters, anyone perhaps under 40 years of age is prone to not seeing some or all of what I have outlined [in brief] above.
Now Daztay maybe any age [I have no idea] but perhaps he is in the demographic where it is only in this election his interest has been raised, it is up to us [as the politicians have not chosen to mention the Machiavellian intrigues for fear of it tarring their own skin] to explain thoughtfully [and honestly] why WE the people who won't, even under pain of death, vote labour.
I maybe wrong, Daztay maybe over 40 and/or a political beast, who knows.
But having seen this Labour Government from glorious start to [please, dear lord] humiliating finish I will try to explain why I am where I am.
To use the only car analogy that comes to mind, Daztay is driving toward a humpback bridge, we are on the other side and there is a bloody huge hole in the road, we had no warning so we drove in that hole and wrecked our cars, what we do now is wave, jump up and down, shout and let off flairs to stop Daztay and his like taking us all down that bloody hole, we don't sulk , say nothing and just wait for him to be in our desperately unhappy situation.
That's my take.
Nice post, good points, well put!
Im late 20's. Had 'half' an interest in politics from my teens - for the past decade i have kept up with current events and affairs via the usual media methods. Im an optimist and im sure that will be quoted a good few times!!!
I think we have a bloody good NHS. The police force are good but CPS are bad. Prisons should be harder. Schools need help but are generally improving i believe (thats what i see in my area).
I think inheritence tax is ok. I'm not happy with the level of unemployment. I'm not happy with the level of imigration but its been reducing over the last few years. I want the UK to have a nuclear deterent, i want the trident subs and nukes. I'm in favour of nuclear power.
Married with kids & GSOH! ;-)
I must admit I am in a real conundrum about next week vote as I used to be a Conservative voter but I cannot trust Cameron and his every policy for every man style of politics and he just seems a tad too superficial for my liking. I still remember the day when the Tory chancellor Lamont put up interest rates up to 15% and when we were recession then. Have they changed their spots, I'm not so sure and I don't think they will be particularly motorist friendly as Cameron is eager to promote his green credentials. The Lib-Dems won't get my vote as I just cannot take them seriously and I don't I can't bring myself to vote Labour, SNP or UKIP. I think I might just spoil my paper to make a statement as I feel I don't that any of the parties fulfill my needs.
Edited by statts1976uk on Tuesday 27th April 10:42
I must admit I am in a real conundrum about next week vote as I used to be a Conservative voter but I cannot trust Cameron and his every policy for every man style of politics and he just seems a tad too superficial for my liking. I still remember the day when the Tory chancellor Lamont put up interest rates up to 15% and when we were recession then. Have they changed their spots, I'm not so sure and I don't think they will be particularly motorist friendly as Cameron is eager to promote his green credentials. The Lib-Dems won't get my vote as I just cannot take them seriously and I don't I can't bring myself to vote Labour, SNP or UKIP. I think I might just spoil my paper to make a statement as I feel I don't that any of the parties fulfill my needs.
Edited by statts1976uk on Tuesday 27th April 10:45
dazzztay said:
I feel sympathy for Labour more than Conservatives because i agree with them more. I dont like the Conservative ideas and as such dont have sympathy for their 'previous'.
But what is it exactly that you agree with? This is what I'm seeing with the current run of vox pops on people voting: "I'm going to vote [whoever] because they'll do something for me personally". Why aren't people seeing the bigger picture? What about voting for a party to pull us out of a war that we should never have entered? Or a party that will cut back on waste and streamline its services? Not "the party that will allow me to continue on benefits for the rest of my life" or "the party that offers free fruit in schools". (Not aimed at you, BTW - just examples of snippets I've heard.)
The Conservative "previous" isn't terribly relevant these days - we've moved on, policies have changed. Labour have been in office for 13 years. What Mrs Thatcher did or didn't do in her time in office shouldn't be part of the equation when it comes to voting for the here and now.
Daz - you are sounding very wishy washy at the moment. I respect you for standing by your beliefs but I'm finding it hard to understand what they are.
You've been asked a simple question multiple times regarding specific Tory policies that you don't agree with. Perhaps I can switch it around, make it easier and ask what are the main Labour policies that you agree with and you feel will make the difference for the next five years.
You've been asked a simple question multiple times regarding specific Tory policies that you don't agree with. Perhaps I can switch it around, make it easier and ask what are the main Labour policies that you agree with and you feel will make the difference for the next five years.
dazzztay said:
I dont like the Conservative ideas and as such dont have sympathy for their 'previous'.
Ignoring the previous bit (you are voting for the future, not the past), which ideas don't you like?dazzztay said:
Conservatives wasted and still want to waste money IMO,
Again, which bits of their policy do you think would be wasting money?dazzztay said:
What do you think i should do? I dont love Labour but dont want the change that the Conservatives or LibDems offer.
If you are not happy about any of them, spoil your vote. Write "none of the above" across your ballot paper.It will get counted, it just will not be a vote for the punch in the face party or the kick in the b
ks party.dazzztay said:
Im late 20's. Had 'half' an interest in politics from my teens - for the past decade i have kept up with current events and affairs via the usual media methods. Im an optimist and im sure that will be quoted a good few times!!!
I think we have a bloody good NHS.
Right, this is where I'll take issue with you. The NHS is far from bloody good. It's a vital service no doubt and has improved, marginally, in the face of enormous funding which has been misappropriated. It's only really improved in the areas where government targets exist, so that they can use for political purposes, surprise surprise, elsewhere things have worsened. Morale with NHS staff is at an all time low at present. I work in the NHS, so I see first hand the problems, and many of them have been caused by Labours control freakery and mismanagement.I think we have a bloody good NHS.
The cuts awaiting the NHS are massive. You love Labour now, just you wait until the extent of the cuts is revealed. The NHS is a hugely bloated organisation that has done everything far too expensively and ironically has been privatised more by this government than any other in it's existence, but privatised in a misguided way, which has not delivered value for money.
SGirl said:
dazzztay said:
I feel sympathy for Labour more than Conservatives because i agree with them more. I dont like the Conservative ideas and as such dont have sympathy for their 'previous'.
But what is it exactly that you agree with? This is what I'm seeing with the current run of vox pops on people voting: "I'm going to vote [whoever] because they'll do something for me personally". Why aren't people seeing the bigger picture? What about voting for a party to pull us out of a war that we should never have entered? Or a party that will cut back on waste and streamline its services? Not "the party that will allow me to continue on benefits for the rest of my life" or "the party that offers free fruit in schools". (Not aimed at you, BTW - just examples of snippets I've heard.)
The Conservative "previous" isn't terribly relevant these days - we've moved on, policies have changed. Labour have been in office for 13 years. What Mrs Thatcher did or didn't do in her time in office shouldn't be part of the equation when it comes to voting for the here and now.
but i had to answer this first! Just for the record. Im in favour of taxation in general and am fed up with the attitude you mentioned about 'what can i get out of my country/the system'. I think everyone should pay tax relitave to what they can afford (based on income and expenditure). I am certainly not the person who says 'I can get X, Y and Z if i vote for <party name>'!
The war is another topic and debatable - i agree about streemlining services, etc....
NoelWatson said:
968 said:
dazzztay said:
I think we have a bloody good NHS.
The NHS is far from bloody good. t.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff