Whom ever wins the election... loses....

[Einion Yrth]

Busa_Rush said:

Bing o said:

Busa_Rush said:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/edmundconway/...

"Whichever party wins this election will have to inflict such painful austerity measures on the British population that they will soon find themselves out of power for generation. Not my words, the words of Mervyn King, Bank of England Governor."

Surely then a Lib-Lab hung parliament would be a good thing? I'm dreading a weak Tory party winning the election and then being blamed for everything.

Quite.

A hung parliament would be unable to do anything much about the economy and if something isn't done very soon the markets are going to pull the chain on it.

edited to change a future tense to a conditional - have to keep some hope

Edited by Einion Yrth on Thursday 29th April 15:38

[Scott330ci]

Mr Whippy said:

Cameron is a good guy I'm sure... I'm putting my trust in him.

But he is left handed. Never trust a lefty.

[Einion Yrth]

Scott330ci said:

Mr Whippy said:

Cameron is a good guy I'm sure... I'm putting my trust in him.

But he is left handed. Never trust a lefty.

Bigot

[JagLover]

daz4m said:

JagLover said:

True enough, but if Labour get in and attempt to close the deficit 'their' way, there won't be much of a country or economy left in five years time.

Can you explain this please. I am of the feeling that they are probably the best position to take us through but would like to hear your POV?

Labour have spent the last 13 years governing in their own interests and not in that of the country. In the good times the cost of this, like the massive expansion of the client state, was concealed, but now it is fully revealed.

Labour's early response to the deficit has been crude class warfare tactics like the 50% tax rate, which will probably end up costing the treasury money as productive activity decreases. This is an ominous harbringer for the future when serious measures need to be taken. Such is Labour's obsession with preserving its own power base that their deficit reduction measures will not reduce wasteful spending but will target the productive parts of the economy.

[chris_w]

Einion Yrth said:

A hung parliament would be unable to do anything much about the economy and if something isn't done very soon the markets are going to pull the chain on it.

I think this is now the best outcome for the long term good of the country - the IMF come in and close down the Labour-built mega-state and thus the Tories don't get the blame for the inevitable pain that causes.

Frankly the electorate has proven repeatedly in both its voting and handling of personal finances that we much prefer short term economic gratifation above long-term fiscal responsibility.

[Oilchange]

basically, we're fkED.

the end


will the last person to leave please take the bulb, you might get 2p for it.

[tamore]

daz4m said:

andymadmak said:

daz4m said:

Can you tell me what your main problems are with the spend and tax mantra and what the alternatives are offering instead?

Thanks

Think of it this way. Great Britain PLC has a number of credit cards. When the Tories left office in 1997, they had managed to bring the card debts under control after the last Labour administration had left power with all the cards maxxed out, and leaving us precious close to having no prospect of making the minimum payments without the card company coming and repossessing the sofa.
Now, after 13 years of being back in power, all our cards are maxxed out again. The only thing that keeps us making the minimum payments is the fact that the card companies haven't put our interest rate up yet - as soon as they do (a la Greece and Spain) we are donald ducked.
Now, the Tory solution is to reduce the SKY account from the full monty monthly, to cut down on the fags and only go out for a beer once a week instead of 3 times a week. The new flat screen TV, the second holiday in Lanzarote and the new sports car will have to wait till we can afford them. Its not nice, but in a few years, when the capital is repaid a bit and thus we are not running on zero available credit we can maybe bring some of these luxuries back onto the spend list.
The Labour solution is to carry on spending, with gay abandon. Cards maxxed out? just get another card. No more cards? Lets visit Ocean Finance. After all, future growth and Harry Potters magic wand will take of the debt, won't it? Trouble is, in the real world "massivedebtium dissapearium" is not an effective spell. Ooops, the bailiffs have cottoned on that the debt is growing still and we can no longer pay the minimums. You don't mind sitting on the floor do you?

Like that very good.

whoooooooooooooooooshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..............

[daz4m]

[Bing o]

chris_w said:

Einion Yrth said:

A hung parliament would be unable to do anything much about the economy and if something isn't done very soon the markets are going to pull the chain on it.

I think this is now the best outcome for the long term good of the country - the IMF come in and close down the Labour-built mega-state and thus the Tories don't get the blame for the inevitable pain that causes.

Frankly the electorate has proven repeatedly in both its voting and handling of personal finances that we much prefer short term economic gratifation above long-term fiscal responsibility.

I can only agree. The austerity measures and the inevitable strikes would destroy what will be a weak and fractious Tory party that will have to learn how to govern very very quickly.

[tamore]

Bing o said:

chris_w said:

Einion Yrth said:

A hung parliament would be unable to do anything much about the economy and if something isn't done very soon the markets are going to pull the chain on it.

I think this is now the best outcome for the long term good of the country - the IMF come in and close down the Labour-built mega-state and thus the Tories don't get the blame for the inevitable pain that causes.

Frankly the electorate has proven repeatedly in both its voting and handling of personal finances that we much prefer short term economic gratifation above long-term fiscal responsibility.

I can only agree. The austerity measures and the inevitable strikes would destroy what will be a weak and fractious Tory party that will have to learn how to govern very very quickly.

my hope is that there are a few tory warhorses who have been kept away from the front in the run up to the election, who can be called up to provide some gravitas if it does get lairy.

bob crow(nie) has already piped up......

[Political Pain]

The opening statement is just ONE possible outcome.

The most important thing is to have a clear mandate and that does not necessarily mean a landslide, in fact a landslide may be the worse possible thing to occur [the two previous regime changes cam in on landslides and they are in all instances in history A BAD THING!

So, what we need in truth is the previous regime [Labour] to be humiliated without giving the opposition a landslide, so Clegg is actually a boon, his presence will cause the incoming party to be capped in their exercise of power.

Hung Parliaments may just be something 'ad hoc' if we are really lucky.

By that I mean that Cameron can govern without them due to the Lib/dems not wanting to bring down a government causing another election, labour votes will even go to the Cons, the reason is simple, with luck they will have lost a lot of seats, they will also be seen to have made a mess [you have to think about a time 6 months after the election] and another election might well see them lose more seats, so some labour turkeys will vote in the cons lobby.

This is a very, very likely situation.

It is the one that will give us the best of all worlds, it's still going to dreadful, but the blame for that is NOT labours fault entirely, they have been awful, truly awful, but the blame is our own, all of us, me and you have lived beyond our means for about 10 years and now we pay for living off the balance sheet gains in our homes.

[andy43]

daz4m - 'better the devil you know' is a good plan when ordering takeaways or employing a builder. Unless the builder happens to be a lying scottish bloke who can't plaster for toffee, blows all your money on the horses and beer and calls you a behind your back.

But as per the OP I reckon whoever wins this election will lose the next one, badly, and be out of power for quite a while. I did think the torys were being deliberately crap a while back, playing the long game to lose this election and then win for decades after.
The country is that fked. Would you be happy being handed a ticking bomb that's already started pissing cemtex on your slippers before you can even get a feel for how big a bang it's going to make? That's what the parties are playing for.

As above, we will have power cuts in the next term, strikes, Greece-style paycuts of 20, 30, 40% or more, huge public sector cuts, interest rate rises enough to make the foolish homeless in a matter of weeks, the list goes on. Fuel costs? Gas costs? Holidays? You think unemployment is high now? There will be riots, crime will go mental, and the government will be powerless.
Christ, Labours fudging of the inflation figures every month with a skewed shopping basket desperately full of ever-cheaper chinese electronic tat is even starting to fail.
Whose fault is it?
Yes, it's partly the fault of a slightly over-celeb'd electorate with more cheap credit than sense, but it's mostly down to Labour.

Double dip? You ain't seen nuffink yet.

[Don]

Political Pain said:

but the blame for that is NOT labours fault entirely, they have been awful, truly awful, but the blame is our own, all of us, me and you have lived beyond our means for about 10 years and now we pay for living off the balance sheet gains in our homes.

I am not to blame. The only debt I have is my mortgage. I did not live beyong my means: Labour did that for me. fk them. fk them very much. They may not be to blame for everyone's personal debt but sure as st they're to blame for tha fifteen grand every last poor fker owes in their share of public debt.

Words cannot fully express my disgust and despite for these utter fools.

[Don]

andy43 said:

Double dip? You ain't seen nuffink yet.

Yep. We haven't had the rioting yet. Believe me - until we've had the civil unrest it ain't over.

[Tangent Police]

Reading that, I was contemplating the use of "hyperbole" in my reply.

However, the debt is seriously big and there is no solution on the horizon. I think things could get very exciting indeed. The path we are on cannot continue and all the options are pretty foul. Even the leaving it and trying to do the minimum, option.

[Political Pain]

Don said:

Political Pain said:

but the blame for that is NOT labours fault entirely, they have been awful, truly awful, but the blame is our own, all of us, me and you have lived beyond our means for about 10 years and now we pay for living off the balance sheet gains in our homes.

I am not to blame. The only debt I have is my mortgage. I did not live beyong my means: Labour did that for me. fk them. fk them very much. They may not be to blame for everyone's personal debt but sure as st they're to blame for tha fifteen grand every last poor fker owes in their share of public debt.

Words cannot fully express my disgust and despite for these utter fools.

We actually owe nearer £75,000 per household in debts... additionally to our mortgage!

Just owning a house in the last 10 years has meant you are [one is] in the collective blame.

The burgeoning house prices fed the ratings on our borrowing, that is part of the reason housing costs were removed from inflation figures.

Edited by Political Pain on Thursday 29th April 19:44

[NiceCupOfTea]

andymadmak said:

daz4m said:

Can you tell me what your main problems are with the spend and tax mantra and what the alternatives are offering instead?

Thanks

Think of it this way. Great Britain PLC has a number of credit cards. When the Tories left office in 1997, they had managed to bring the card debts under control after the last Labour administration had left power with all the cards maxxed out, and leaving us precious close to having no prospect of making the minimum payments without the card company coming and repossessing the sofa.
Now, after 13 years of being back in power, all our cards are maxxed out again. The only thing that keeps us making the minimum payments is the fact that the card companies haven't put our interest rate up yet - as soon as they do (a la Greece and Spain) we are donald ducked.
Now, the Tory solution is to reduce the SKY account from the full monty monthly, to cut down on the fags and only go out for a beer once a week instead of 3 times a week. The new flat screen TV, the second holiday in Lanzarote and the new sports car will have to wait till we can afford them. Its not nice, but in a few years, when the capital is repaid a bit and thus we are not running on zero available credit we can maybe bring some of these luxuries back onto the spend list.
The Labour solution is to carry on spending, with gay abandon. Cards maxxed out? just get another card. No more cards? Lets visit Ocean Finance. After all, future growth and Harry Potters magic wand will take of the debt, won't it? Trouble is, in the real world "massivedebtium dissapearium" is not an effective spell. Ooops, the bailiffs have cottoned on that the debt is growing still and we can no longer pay the minimums. You don't mind sitting on the floor do you?

That analogy makes a lot of sense - but in these terms how does Gordon Brown claim that his plan to keep spending will work? I am no economist and am trying to understand why spending when we are already broke will help?

[tamore]

NiceCupOfTea said:

andymadmak said:

daz4m said:

Can you tell me what your main problems are with the spend and tax mantra and what the alternatives are offering instead?

Thanks

Think of it this way. Great Britain PLC has a number of credit cards. When the Tories left office in 1997, they had managed to bring the card debts under control after the last Labour administration had left power with all the cards maxxed out, and leaving us precious close to having no prospect of making the minimum payments without the card company coming and repossessing the sofa.
Now, after 13 years of being back in power, all our cards are maxxed out again. The only thing that keeps us making the minimum payments is the fact that the card companies haven't put our interest rate up yet - as soon as they do (a la Greece and Spain) we are donald ducked.
Now, the Tory solution is to reduce the SKY account from the full monty monthly, to cut down on the fags and only go out for a beer once a week instead of 3 times a week. The new flat screen TV, the second holiday in Lanzarote and the new sports car will have to wait till we can afford them. Its not nice, but in a few years, when the capital is repaid a bit and thus we are not running on zero available credit we can maybe bring some of these luxuries back onto the spend list.
The Labour solution is to carry on spending, with gay abandon. Cards maxxed out? just get another card. No more cards? Lets visit Ocean Finance. After all, future growth and Harry Potters magic wand will take of the debt, won't it? Trouble is, in the real world "massivedebtium dissapearium" is not an effective spell. Ooops, the bailiffs have cottoned on that the debt is growing still and we can no longer pay the minimums. You don't mind sitting on the floor do you?

That analogy makes a lot of sense - but in these terms how does Gordon Brown claim that his plan to keep spending will work? I am no economist and am trying to understand why spending when we are already broke will help?

exactly, the only thing that's going to get us out of this steaming turd heap is a (very) healthy private sector. all he seems to want to do with the private sector is tax it into oblivion.

[anonymous-user]

Political Pain said:

Just owning a house in the last 10 years has meant you are [one is] in the collective blame.

not really. only 42% of households have a mortgage.

[Political Pain]

Mortgage or not!

If your house has burgeoned in 'value' in the last 10 years [probably everyone except a few places dotted around the UK] then you're in!

Housing stock.

Edited by Political Pain on Thursday 29th April 20:15