Caroline Flack
Discussion
I think a key consideration to what constitutes a social media platform is, could you interact with a given person on it? It's very reasonable to assume you could on something like Twitter, Facebook and Instagram, especially if said person is famous. If I slag a famous TV presenter off on PH it's unlikely they are going to stumble on it unless they happened to be browsing the lounge at the time. 
Coin Slot. said:
PurpleTurtle said:
Very much in agreement here.
It's tragic that she's killed herself, but I take one look at her Instagram account and all it screams is "LOOK AT MY AMAZINGLY GLAMOROUS LIFE!"
In every photo she is on a red carpet, at some premiere, on an amazing holiday, doing the "you've-caught me-laughing-as-if -this-is-au-naturel-but-in-reality-we-took-twenty-versions-of-it-to-get-my-best-angle".
It's all so FAKE. She was front woman of a programme that exists purely to make shallow, vacuous people famous. It promotes the cult of celebrity - young girls wanting to be 'a celebrity' as a career ambition, which has become a thing since the whole advent of 'reality' TV. It totally boils my piss. We live in a society where young people - girls especially - are suffering all sorts of mental health challenges, anxiety, eating disorders, all driven by this idea of what is acceptable, all driven by social media, with people like Caroline Flack front and centre of it. Did she really care about the place she was playing in that whole stupid game? I don't think she did.
I've seen all manner of hand-wringers on my Facebook posting if you can be anything in this world, be kind memes attributed to Ms Flack, which is all a very nice sentiment and all that, but I'm also sat there going "whoa .... how about not basing your entire existence on something so false, and smacking your sleeping boyfriend round the head with a lamp so much that he's had to all the Police allegedly in fear of his life.
Lots of shouts of 'her management/ITV should have protected her'. Really? She was a grown woman of 40 years of age, how about she showed some personal responsibility.
Did she smack the boyfriend about? Seems certain.
Should she have been prosecuted? Yes.
Would it have been the end of the world if found guilty? No.
People do far, far worse things in their lives and get on with them. She would have lost the Love Island gig as obviously a convicted perp of DV as a host isn't great for advertisers, but so what? She could have styled it out. Lay low for a while, reinvent yourself, as many badly-behaved celebrities have done in the past.
Everyone jumping on the bandwagon of bashing the media for hounding her over this really needs to remember that she was a keen and active player in the whole charade.
For balance: I lived with a girlfriend with mental health issues like this for 3 years. Despite her privileged upbringing and outwardly 'nice' life she was constantly jealous of other people, thinking everyone's life was better. It is unremittingly tiring to put up with. I stood by her through a lot of trying times, but the day she jogged on out of my life was a relief for my mental health. I've heard all the BS round this before and bored of it. If you feel the need to go through a boyfirend's phone whilst he is sleeping then he's probably not the bloke for you. Binbag him and find someone else, don't assault him so that you end up in court. Simple, eh?
Put far more eloquently than I could have managed, I totally agree.It's tragic that she's killed herself, but I take one look at her Instagram account and all it screams is "LOOK AT MY AMAZINGLY GLAMOROUS LIFE!"
In every photo she is on a red carpet, at some premiere, on an amazing holiday, doing the "you've-caught me-laughing-as-if -this-is-au-naturel-but-in-reality-we-took-twenty-versions-of-it-to-get-my-best-angle".
It's all so FAKE. She was front woman of a programme that exists purely to make shallow, vacuous people famous. It promotes the cult of celebrity - young girls wanting to be 'a celebrity' as a career ambition, which has become a thing since the whole advent of 'reality' TV. It totally boils my piss. We live in a society where young people - girls especially - are suffering all sorts of mental health challenges, anxiety, eating disorders, all driven by this idea of what is acceptable, all driven by social media, with people like Caroline Flack front and centre of it. Did she really care about the place she was playing in that whole stupid game? I don't think she did.
I've seen all manner of hand-wringers on my Facebook posting if you can be anything in this world, be kind memes attributed to Ms Flack, which is all a very nice sentiment and all that, but I'm also sat there going "whoa .... how about not basing your entire existence on something so false, and smacking your sleeping boyfriend round the head with a lamp so much that he's had to all the Police allegedly in fear of his life.
Lots of shouts of 'her management/ITV should have protected her'. Really? She was a grown woman of 40 years of age, how about she showed some personal responsibility.
Did she smack the boyfriend about? Seems certain.
Should she have been prosecuted? Yes.
Would it have been the end of the world if found guilty? No.
People do far, far worse things in their lives and get on with them. She would have lost the Love Island gig as obviously a convicted perp of DV as a host isn't great for advertisers, but so what? She could have styled it out. Lay low for a while, reinvent yourself, as many badly-behaved celebrities have done in the past.
Everyone jumping on the bandwagon of bashing the media for hounding her over this really needs to remember that she was a keen and active player in the whole charade.
For balance: I lived with a girlfriend with mental health issues like this for 3 years. Despite her privileged upbringing and outwardly 'nice' life she was constantly jealous of other people, thinking everyone's life was better. It is unremittingly tiring to put up with. I stood by her through a lot of trying times, but the day she jogged on out of my life was a relief for my mental health. I've heard all the BS round this before and bored of it. If you feel the need to go through a boyfirend's phone whilst he is sleeping then he's probably not the bloke for you. Binbag him and find someone else, don't assault him so that you end up in court. Simple, eh?
The dictionary defines social media as:
websites and applications that enable users to create and share content or to participate in social networking
That's a pretty good definition I think. PH is social media, no question. But I get some PH users who have always looked down on social media might not like that definition.
websites and applications that enable users to create and share content or to participate in social networking
That's a pretty good definition I think. PH is social media, no question. But I get some PH users who have always looked down on social media might not like that definition.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Rubbish. That's just your own prejudices, categorising users of Twitter as a bit lower down the scale than you, to make yourself feel better abut the social media you happen to use.
There are millions of anonymous Twitter accounts. And millions of very decent people on Twitter. Write out a list of the 10 well known people you admire most in the world, and the 10 organisations you are most interested in, and let's see how many of them are on Twitter.
Sense of humour fail twiggy?There are millions of anonymous Twitter accounts. And millions of very decent people on Twitter. Write out a list of the 10 well known people you admire most in the world, and the 10 organisations you are most interested in, and let's see how many of them are on Twitter.
There is a distinct difference between forums and social media - for a start, forums are not bundled as an app on your phone, the profile page is limited and not the "home" or launching page, the focus of forums is based on the subject of the forum whilst in social media it is the individuals who are the subject.
By your own admission - most if not all organisations have a presence on social media - how many have a profile on PH and regularly post?
TwigtheWonderkid said:
The dictionary defines social media as:
websites and applications that enable users to create and share content or to participate in social networking
That's a pretty good definition I think. PH is social media, no question. But I get some PH users who have always looked down on social media might not like that definition.
Thumbsnap is a social media site by that definition. It's a swebsites and applications that enable users to create and share content or to participate in social networking
That's a pretty good definition I think. PH is social media, no question. But I get some PH users who have always looked down on social media might not like that definition.
t definition. I use reddit every day which is categorically a social media site, so you'll have to find another deflection
chibbard said:
Coin Slot. said:
PurpleTurtle said:
Very much in agreement here.
It's tragic that she's killed herself, but I take one look at her Instagram account and all it screams is "LOOK AT MY AMAZINGLY GLAMOROUS LIFE!"
In every photo she is on a red carpet, at some premiere, on an amazing holiday, doing the "you've-caught me-laughing-as-if -this-is-au-naturel-but-in-reality-we-took-twenty-versions-of-it-to-get-my-best-angle".
It's all so FAKE. She was front woman of a programme that exists purely to make shallow, vacuous people famous. It promotes the cult of celebrity - young girls wanting to be 'a celebrity' as a career ambition, which has become a thing since the whole advent of 'reality' TV. It totally boils my piss. We live in a society where young people - girls especially - are suffering all sorts of mental health challenges, anxiety, eating disorders, all driven by this idea of what is acceptable, all driven by social media, with people like Caroline Flack front and centre of it. Did she really care about the place she was playing in that whole stupid game? I don't think she did.
I've seen all manner of hand-wringers on my Facebook posting if you can be anything in this world, be kind memes attributed to Ms Flack, which is all a very nice sentiment and all that, but I'm also sat there going "whoa .... how about not basing your entire existence on something so false, and smacking your sleeping boyfriend round the head with a lamp so much that he's had to all the Police allegedly in fear of his life.
Lots of shouts of 'her management/ITV should have protected her'. Really? She was a grown woman of 40 years of age, how about she showed some personal responsibility.
Did she smack the boyfriend about? Seems certain.
Should she have been prosecuted? Yes.
Would it have been the end of the world if found guilty? No.
People do far, far worse things in their lives and get on with them. She would have lost the Love Island gig as obviously a convicted perp of DV as a host isn't great for advertisers, but so what? She could have styled it out. Lay low for a while, reinvent yourself, as many badly-behaved celebrities have done in the past.
Everyone jumping on the bandwagon of bashing the media for hounding her over this really needs to remember that she was a keen and active player in the whole charade.
For balance: I lived with a girlfriend with mental health issues like this for 3 years. Despite her privileged upbringing and outwardly 'nice' life she was constantly jealous of other people, thinking everyone's life was better. It is unremittingly tiring to put up with. I stood by her through a lot of trying times, but the day she jogged on out of my life was a relief for my mental health. I've heard all the BS round this before and bored of it. If you feel the need to go through a boyfirend's phone whilst he is sleeping then he's probably not the bloke for you. Binbag him and find someone else, don't assault him so that you end up in court. Simple, eh?
Put far more eloquently than I could have managed, I totally agree.It's tragic that she's killed herself, but I take one look at her Instagram account and all it screams is "LOOK AT MY AMAZINGLY GLAMOROUS LIFE!"
In every photo she is on a red carpet, at some premiere, on an amazing holiday, doing the "you've-caught me-laughing-as-if -this-is-au-naturel-but-in-reality-we-took-twenty-versions-of-it-to-get-my-best-angle".
It's all so FAKE. She was front woman of a programme that exists purely to make shallow, vacuous people famous. It promotes the cult of celebrity - young girls wanting to be 'a celebrity' as a career ambition, which has become a thing since the whole advent of 'reality' TV. It totally boils my piss. We live in a society where young people - girls especially - are suffering all sorts of mental health challenges, anxiety, eating disorders, all driven by this idea of what is acceptable, all driven by social media, with people like Caroline Flack front and centre of it. Did she really care about the place she was playing in that whole stupid game? I don't think she did.
I've seen all manner of hand-wringers on my Facebook posting if you can be anything in this world, be kind memes attributed to Ms Flack, which is all a very nice sentiment and all that, but I'm also sat there going "whoa .... how about not basing your entire existence on something so false, and smacking your sleeping boyfriend round the head with a lamp so much that he's had to all the Police allegedly in fear of his life.
Lots of shouts of 'her management/ITV should have protected her'. Really? She was a grown woman of 40 years of age, how about she showed some personal responsibility.
Did she smack the boyfriend about? Seems certain.
Should she have been prosecuted? Yes.
Would it have been the end of the world if found guilty? No.
People do far, far worse things in their lives and get on with them. She would have lost the Love Island gig as obviously a convicted perp of DV as a host isn't great for advertisers, but so what? She could have styled it out. Lay low for a while, reinvent yourself, as many badly-behaved celebrities have done in the past.
Everyone jumping on the bandwagon of bashing the media for hounding her over this really needs to remember that she was a keen and active player in the whole charade.
For balance: I lived with a girlfriend with mental health issues like this for 3 years. Despite her privileged upbringing and outwardly 'nice' life she was constantly jealous of other people, thinking everyone's life was better. It is unremittingly tiring to put up with. I stood by her through a lot of trying times, but the day she jogged on out of my life was a relief for my mental health. I've heard all the BS round this before and bored of it. If you feel the need to go through a boyfirend's phone whilst he is sleeping then he's probably not the bloke for you. Binbag him and find someone else, don't assault him so that you end up in court. Simple, eh?
So the deceased and other dead people 'starred' on reality TV programmes, chasing fake, manufactured and produced fame? They're fakes, insecure and vulnerable people 'groomed' into becoming cannon fodder for the fame game?
Yet how many people, some funded by taxpayers, are in positions of 'leaders' are on Social Media saying we should be kind and are criticising the tabloid press and social media are just as fake and manufactured, promoting themselves to help secure their future potential takings from the publicly funded gravy train? Does someone's ability or propensity to virtue signal deserve a well paid, taxpayer funded job?
Flack's death will be misappropriated to help push the 'online harms' agenda by elected representatives whose character and conduct may not match the way they portray themselves in the Press, much of it PR rather than news, and Social Media? Where does that SNP Minister grooming a 16 year old boy via Social Media fit with the 'online harms' agenda?
Contrive, faked, manufactured dumbed down nonsense isn't restricted to reality TV programmes that we can choose to watch or not, and like the TV licence, we cannot escape paying for fake 'leaders' in the public sector getting paid for non-jobs. Is getting paid to indulge in mourning sickness really while also promoting themselves the best use of public funds when we have a Head Teacher sacking themself to help ensure the financial viability of their school?
One of the guests on Broadcasting House on Radio 4 on Sunday morning said 'Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.'
Edited by carinaman on Monday 17th February 13:53
There have been and remain different forms of social media; bulletin boards, IRC, Usenet, web forums, LiveJournal, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube, etc. Blogs. All the below-the-line comment facilities. Various apps that come and go. Arguably, even online multiplayer games.
It's stated that Ms Flack was on antidepressants. Looking at the incidents where she caused great alarm it was both while being intoxicated.
These drugs are not to be messed with and even without a drink, they can cause issues.
A friend of mine had work stress and IBS. The doctor put him on antidepressants which completely changed him. He was then put on a number of different types but it just got worse.
Finally, they decided to taper him off the medication and it made him crash as the taper was too fast. He was then put on a higher dose to combat this as he was in a bad way.
Last May he seemed to be deteriorating so I contacted him daily just to check-in. Told him to contact his doctor and keep pressing for help. I received a missed call so phoned him back and he was desperate. I was able to calm him down and stated that I was going to contact someone to get him help. He didn't want me to do that and made me promise.
This, unfortunately, continued to get worse so I said to him that I would drive to his place which was 40 minutes away to be with him. By this point, he was saying he was going to take all his tablets at once.
I said I was going to phone someone to help him and to wait for my call back. He made me promise to phone him back and not to leave him as he was petrified. I promised him and put the phone down and called the emergency services.
The dispatcher took his details and stated they would have an ambulance with him in 10 minutes but to not phone him back as they needed the line kept clear so to speak with them. This was non-negosiatable.
I was visited by the police later that night as he was on life support in hospital. They needed a statement.
Four days later he passed away on my birthday.
Not phoning him back will stay with me for a very long time.
These drugs are not to be messed with and even without a drink, they can cause issues.
A friend of mine had work stress and IBS. The doctor put him on antidepressants which completely changed him. He was then put on a number of different types but it just got worse.
Finally, they decided to taper him off the medication and it made him crash as the taper was too fast. He was then put on a higher dose to combat this as he was in a bad way.
Last May he seemed to be deteriorating so I contacted him daily just to check-in. Told him to contact his doctor and keep pressing for help. I received a missed call so phoned him back and he was desperate. I was able to calm him down and stated that I was going to contact someone to get him help. He didn't want me to do that and made me promise.
This, unfortunately, continued to get worse so I said to him that I would drive to his place which was 40 minutes away to be with him. By this point, he was saying he was going to take all his tablets at once.
I said I was going to phone someone to help him and to wait for my call back. He made me promise to phone him back and not to leave him as he was petrified. I promised him and put the phone down and called the emergency services.
The dispatcher took his details and stated they would have an ambulance with him in 10 minutes but to not phone him back as they needed the line kept clear so to speak with them. This was non-negosiatable.
I was visited by the police later that night as he was on life support in hospital. They needed a statement.
Four days later he passed away on my birthday.
Not phoning him back will stay with me for a very long time.
RumbleOfThunder said:
I think a key consideration to what constitutes a social media platform is, could you interact with a given person on it? It's very reasonable to assume you could on something like Twitter, Facebook and Instagram, especially if said person is famous. If I slag a famous TV presenter off on PH it's unlikely they are going to stumble on it unless they happened to be browsing the lounge at the time.
Katie Price is a car enthusiast. She may well have ventured on to here (if only for advice on being charged with motoring offences) and seen some of the vicious and personal attacks that have been posted about her on many PH threads. Also, Katie Price is someone who I could well imagine may be vulnerable. So I'm not buying into this high horse attitude, that somehow we are "better" than those Twitter users.
PH probably does fall under the definition of 'social media', but I there's social media and there's social media.
Twitter and Instagram are the preference for celebrities because of their format and scale. I imagine if you do something to upset the wonderful public - such as get charged for assaulting your boyfriend - the volume of nasty comments must be unreal. Directly fed to you 24/7.
Bit harder for that to occur on PH as 1) celebrities aren't using it and 2) hundreds of millions of people don't have a PH account.
Twitter and Instagram are the preference for celebrities because of their format and scale. I imagine if you do something to upset the wonderful public - such as get charged for assaulting your boyfriend - the volume of nasty comments must be unreal. Directly fed to you 24/7.
Bit harder for that to occur on PH as 1) celebrities aren't using it and 2) hundreds of millions of people don't have a PH account.
La Liga said:
PH probably does fall under the definition of 'social media', but I there's social media and there's social media.
Twitter and Instagram are the preference for celebrities because of their format and scale. I imagine if you do something to upset the wonderful public - such as get charged for assaulting your boyfriend - the volume of nasty comments must be unreal.
Bit harder for that to occur on PH as 1) celebrities aren't using it and 2) hundreds of millions of people don't have a PH account.
That's not quite true, we've had a few! They usually have the sense to fTwitter and Instagram are the preference for celebrities because of their format and scale. I imagine if you do something to upset the wonderful public - such as get charged for assaulting your boyfriend - the volume of nasty comments must be unreal.
Bit harder for that to occur on PH as 1) celebrities aren't using it and 2) hundreds of millions of people don't have a PH account.
k off though (although in fairness I' don't think any were ever treated poorly) 
ELUSIVEJIM said:
It's stated that Ms Flack was on antidepressants. Looking at the incidents where she caused great alarm it was both while being intoxicated.
I am very sorry to hear about your friend.But by way of balance, I have been taking anti depressants for about 20 years and they have been a godsend in managing depression.
With me they seem to have very little by way of side effects. I can put away a bottle of Malbec without turning violent, so having a drink isn't a problem.
SSRI anti depressants seem to suit some people and disagree with others.
I take a fairly low dose of Sertraline, which works for me.
When first treated, I was prescribed Paroxetine, which was quite different. It made me feel like a zombie and changes to dosage would have a catastrophic effect on mood and anxiety. Weaning myself off them was time consuming and fraught.
Oakey said:
La Liga said:
PH probably does fall under the definition of 'social media', but I there's social media and there's social media.
Twitter and Instagram are the preference for celebrities because of their format and scale. I imagine if you do something to upset the wonderful public - such as get charged for assaulting your boyfriend - the volume of nasty comments must be unreal.
Bit harder for that to occur on PH as 1) celebrities aren't using it and 2) hundreds of millions of people don't have a PH account.
That's not quite true, we've had a few! They usually have the sense to fTwitter and Instagram are the preference for celebrities because of their format and scale. I imagine if you do something to upset the wonderful public - such as get charged for assaulting your boyfriend - the volume of nasty comments must be unreal.
Bit harder for that to occur on PH as 1) celebrities aren't using it and 2) hundreds of millions of people don't have a PH account.
k off though (although in fairness I' don't think any were ever treated poorly) Murph7355 said:
turbobloke said:
....
You may remember this was once a forum for car enthusiasts, not least performance cars such as TVRs. It was mostly populated by people with a common interest. That's nothing like the general dumping on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram et al. Which is not to say that you can't find a gem on any platform, however the search effort is more worthwhile in some places for some people. As PH expanded for commercial rather than special interest reasons, things changed, but not sufficiently as yet to blur the boundaries completely.
This is an interesting angle...You may remember this was once a forum for car enthusiasts, not least performance cars such as TVRs. It was mostly populated by people with a common interest. That's nothing like the general dumping on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram et al. Which is not to say that you can't find a gem on any platform, however the search effort is more worthwhile in some places for some people. As PH expanded for commercial rather than special interest reasons, things changed, but not sufficiently as yet to blur the boundaries completely.
No empirical data on it, but it has felt to me over the last few years in NP&E that those stirring the pot/being offended the most seem to be those who only ever post in NP&E. Little/no common interest??
It looks very much like some people not typical of the original PH demographic (i.e. still welcome of course but not particularly interested in cars, so different - neither better nor worse necessarily) who stumbled across PH somehow, found it to be different to their usual fodder and continue to come along for the 5 minute argument and sometimes the full half hour. Or, as you accurately described it, stirring the pot. A common but not unique identifier is that they tend to speak about PH in their posts as though it doesn't include them.
Fortunately there are still a number of self-evidently well-informed PHers with experience and knowledge to share across a wide range of expertise, and for me this will remain one of the attractive features of the site. It makes ignoring / putting up with the python 5/30 minute mob more worthwhile.
I don't think social media had as big a part to play in Caroline's death as some people think. Think of it this way. If a random stranger approached you and said bad things about you, yeah wouldn't be nice but you'd probably get over it quickly.
However, if someone (tabloids) said bad things about you to literally millions of people - that might affect you seriously. For them to continually hound you in the street with bright camera flashes, wait outside your house knowing full well they want to take your picture to plaster all over the nation's media humiliating you. Yeah that's significantly worse than a few mean tweets.
This suicide had very little, probably nothing to do with pressures or insecurities of social media. It was due to your dream career being over, relationships being ruined and a few almost guaranteed years in prison, whilst the outside world continues to humiliate you.
However, if someone (tabloids) said bad things about you to literally millions of people - that might affect you seriously. For them to continually hound you in the street with bright camera flashes, wait outside your house knowing full well they want to take your picture to plaster all over the nation's media humiliating you. Yeah that's significantly worse than a few mean tweets.
This suicide had very little, probably nothing to do with pressures or insecurities of social media. It was due to your dream career being over, relationships being ruined and a few almost guaranteed years in prison, whilst the outside world continues to humiliate you.
La Liga said:
Oakey said:
La Liga said:
PH probably does fall under the definition of 'social media', but I there's social media and there's social media.
Twitter and Instagram are the preference for celebrities because of their format and scale. I imagine if you do something to upset the wonderful public - such as get charged for assaulting your boyfriend - the volume of nasty comments must be unreal.
Bit harder for that to occur on PH as 1) celebrities aren't using it and 2) hundreds of millions of people don't have a PH account.
That's not quite true, we've had a few! They usually have the sense to fTwitter and Instagram are the preference for celebrities because of their format and scale. I imagine if you do something to upset the wonderful public - such as get charged for assaulting your boyfriend - the volume of nasty comments must be unreal.
Bit harder for that to occur on PH as 1) celebrities aren't using it and 2) hundreds of millions of people don't have a PH account.
k off though (although in fairness I' don't think any were ever treated poorly) Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff