Russia invades Ukraine. Volume 2
Discussion
Byker28i said:
AngryPartsBloke said:
originals said:
800kms?
To deliver some flowers?
During a war?
I saw a video from Ukraine yesterday of a Cyclist going out on his road bike full skin tight lycra past Tanks. People are strange.To deliver some flowers?
During a war?
SteveStrange said:
A couple of days ago someone posted a YT link to a video showing why Putin might be doing this, his perception of the West threatening him somehow. I've had a quick scroll back but there are hundreds of pages. Has anyone got the link to hand they could share please?
https://youtu.be/If61baWF4GErxe said:
I would imagine that strategy is about to change.
So far Zelensky has stuck in Kiev, and they are going for a siege resistance approach. Once Putin starts throwing big expensive missiles about, he’s probably going to move the “technical seat of government” to a location 100 yards from the Polish border. Putin rolls into a wrecked city, has to feed the occupants (or ask the UN to do so), and the Ukrainian government will continue to be broadcasting from a much safer location. Zelensky is now leading an insurgency, which is comprised of lots of individuals armed to the teeth with unpleasant weaponry, that you can’t really damage with your £10m missile.
Let him have Kiev - it’s just a load of concrete. The important thing is that the Ukrainian government survives intact.
I would agree. In doing so, you dare Putin to continue advancing West, directly towards a NATO member, with a EU who are increasingly united in their desire to see Putin gone.So far Zelensky has stuck in Kiev, and they are going for a siege resistance approach. Once Putin starts throwing big expensive missiles about, he’s probably going to move the “technical seat of government” to a location 100 yards from the Polish border. Putin rolls into a wrecked city, has to feed the occupants (or ask the UN to do so), and the Ukrainian government will continue to be broadcasting from a much safer location. Zelensky is now leading an insurgency, which is comprised of lots of individuals armed to the teeth with unpleasant weaponry, that you can’t really damage with your £10m missile.
Let him have Kiev - it’s just a load of concrete. The important thing is that the Ukrainian government survives intact.
If the Russian advance succeeds in reaching Kyiv, there’s little Zelensky can do and him not dying is very important.
BikeBikeBIke said:
vonuber said:
What are you basing that first point on?
I think thats established fact. It's totally fits what happened on the ground and the Russians accidentally released the statement they were going to issue once that happened so we have it in their own words.Digga said:
Blue One said:
What puzzles me is whether to set-backs the Russians are facing are down to a poor military, miscalculating the resistance of the Ukrainians, or a longer-term plan of ever escalating violence until they get a surrender.
I find it hard to believe it is down to a poor military, apparently the Russians have spent the last decade reoganizing and re-equipping their armed forces, abandoning the old mass conscript model for a more professional arm. They have also had months preparing for this conflict close to the theatre of operations. That being said, if it does turn out to be the case it will severely backfire on Putin (amongst other things from this mess) as people will know Russia isn't the power it made out it was.
I can tell you. I could spend years practicing football and never ever be a footballist. I simply lack the aptitude, ability and, crucially, the will.I find it hard to believe it is down to a poor military, apparently the Russians have spent the last decade reoganizing and re-equipping their armed forces, abandoning the old mass conscript model for a more professional arm. They have also had months preparing for this conflict close to the theatre of operations. That being said, if it does turn out to be the case it will severely backfire on Putin (amongst other things from this mess) as people will know Russia isn't the power it made out it was.
Conversely - to use a PH alternative - I try to drive my car quickly on track and have paid for some decent instruction, which most certainly did bring improvements.
To succeed, the military needs money, the right training, talent and the will and conviction. Not really sure how much of any of those its had. No one knows how much of the military budget was siphoned off through backhanders, cronyism and dodgy deals.
Basically a General (?) was tasked with the job and started doing some good work to bring RA upto speed but Basically it was costly and did not fit Russias traditional military make up. Putin also viewed the General as a threat so was replaced by another yes man, the Grey haired guy seated at the "I am prepared to use nukes" breifing
vaud said:
rovermorris999 said:
WilliamWoollard said:
I'm no Churchill but aren't they playing the long game? Presumably the longer the convoy sits there the weaker they will get, food, fuel and morale will start running low. If there is an impassable bridge up ahead just ensure it can't be passed and wait it out. If they rebuild the bridge, blow it up again and leave them there. The Ukraines might get some surrenders and capture some kit.
You could be right there. The men in that convoy are sitting in damp, cold conditions with no sanitation, eating crap food and using fuel. Their morale and potential effectiveness will be going down day by day.GMT13 said:
Ukraine don't seem too bad at the outright propaganda stuff as well though. A couple of the obvious examples that were widely believed for a day or so.
- The ghost of Kyiv that shot down half a dozen russian rivals
- The heroic soldier that strapped a bomb to himself to blow up a bridge, halting the Russian advance.
- The 13 soldiers on Snake Island that responded 'go f
k yourself' to a Russian ship when threatened and were all killed. A good story until you find out they were all captured without injury.
Both sides will use propaganda but Ukraine are the good guys here, it's really not up for debate.- The ghost of Kyiv that shot down half a dozen russian rivals
- The heroic soldier that strapped a bomb to himself to blow up a bridge, halting the Russian advance.
- The 13 soldiers on Snake Island that responded 'go f
k yourself' to a Russian ship when threatened and were all killed. A good story until you find out they were all captured without injury. vaud said:
Chubbyross said:
I’d be interested to hear others’ views on how Putin can get out of this. The Russian ethos is all about strength. As the Rouble continues to slide he’ll come under more pressure from home - as well as continuing sanctions from abroad. Putin can’t and won’t back down. How can this end up any other way than nuclear? He’s said in the past that a world without Russia isn’t worth having. He sees himself as the personification of Russia. I’m feel rather pessimistic about this whole thing right now.
Military coup? I cant see the generals opting for destruction of the motherland either...The end game for him is quite simple - he takes Ukraine away from the west and under the Russian umbrella. As a result he drags Russia back into the insular society the USSR was in the 70s. Total globalisation does not bother him - he’s got his money so he’ll get his wish of protecting the motherland from the evil west ( besides , he’ll access the west via the conduit of China and knows that, long term, the west will make its fragile peace with him as it needs Russian resources)
The nuclear option is simply not going to happen. This is not a world war and it won’t become one.
As well as the Ukrainians are doing, they won’t win this. The Russians will overwhelm them eventually. The worrying thing is they are seem prepared to flatten it to achieve that victory.
TyrannosauRoss Lex said:
Thank you for your more helpful reply. I wasn't aware it wasn't "owned" by anyone, and I wondered if "money" was transferred to a wallet via a Russian IP or whatever.....? But if I set up bitcoin and put money from my own bank account into that wallet, would it not be possible to see that my wallet got its funds from a UK bank account? Excuse the ignorance.
You can't transfer money from your bank to a bitcoin wallet, you can transfer funds to somewhere that allows you to buy bitcoin, and then transfer that bitcoin out to a private or external wallet. For a centralised exchange that requires KYC they will be able to tie the account to a real person or business. IF either of those are flagged up then they have said that they can and will, in regards to the legal requests, hold those accounts. But sanctions and holds are only applicable to funds and coins held on centralised exchanges. If you withdraw your Bitcoin to a private wallet there's absolutely nothing to identify the 'owner', one can only assume, and there's nothing that they can do to stop transactions to/from the wallet itself. This is why people in crypto talk about private keys and 'not your key, not your coins'.
vonuber said:
BikeBikeBIke said:
vonuber said:
What are you basing that first point on?
I think thats established fact. It's totally fits what happened on the ground and the Russians accidentally released the statement they were going to issue once that happened so we have it in their own words.
originals said:
Oakey said:
dmahon said:
The story I got was that he was driving from Moscow to Minsk (or the other way around) delivering Flowers in advance of Womens Day and said it was military vehicles almost the entire way.
Interesting primary anecdote which some clowns think is worthy of a laugh, whilst simultaneously lapping up everything the MSM is telling them about Russia getting their ass kicked.
That's right dmahon, everything is a conspiracy by the 'MSM'; COVID, vaccines, Ukraine / Russia. Must be a scary place living inside your head. Interesting primary anecdote which some clowns think is worthy of a laugh, whilst simultaneously lapping up everything the MSM is telling them about Russia getting their ass kicked.
To deliver some flowers?
During a war?
anonymous said:
[redacted]
This is already a very expensive mistake by Russia, even if they were able to take Kiev by just flattening it. Then what? You have a two ports to inland seas and the world feeling quite happy to blockade them and fiancial pressure to seize Russian assets of private citizens living in the west. You are then in the Ronnie Biggs situation where you pay to stay.
sisu said:
For the civilians who i have spoken to there is a real oh st moment. Many are trying to get out of town.
Anything to do with money or electronics is screwed. The Tesla charger out of St Petersburg, it has a "fk you Free Ukraine" when you try and plug it in, my friend had to ditch his Model S at a friends house. None of the cards work, none of the ATMs have money now and the Russian version of debit card, well that is patchy even paying for fuel as everyone wants cash , not rubels.
They are being attacked in a way that the older generation just can't grasp.
One thing that needs clarification on that. Was it the cars wouldn't connect to the charge and displayed the message or the other way? If its the charging point that wouldn't charge the car that leads to interesting implications going forward for all countries. t moment. Many are trying to get out of town.Anything to do with money or electronics is screwed. The Tesla charger out of St Petersburg, it has a "f
k you Free Ukraine" when you try and plug it in, my friend had to ditch his Model S at a friends house. None of the cards work, none of the ATMs have money now and the Russian version of debit card, well that is patchy even paying for fuel as everyone wants cash , not rubels. They are being attacked in a way that the older generation just can't grasp.
I also read a post on here last night that Monaco has told all the oligarchs to take their tinsel coated, mobile oppression palaces out of their harbour and bugger off. Has this been confirmed?
jcremonini said:
Putin’s not stupid. He knew, when he started all this, that he’d become the worlds pariah and was prepared for it.
The end game for him is quite simple - he takes Ukraine away from the west and under the Russian umbrella. As a result he drags Russia back into the insular society the USSR was in the 70s. Total globalisation does not bother him - he’s got his money so he’ll get his wish of protecting the motherland from the evil west ( besides , he’ll access the west via the conduit of China and knows that, long term, the west will make its fragile peace with him as it needs Russian resources)
The nuclear option is simply not going to happen. This is not a world war and it won’t become one.
As well as the Ukrainians are doing, they won’t win this. The Russians will overwhelm them eventually. The worrying thing is they are seem prepared to flatten it to achieve that victory.
No.The end game for him is quite simple - he takes Ukraine away from the west and under the Russian umbrella. As a result he drags Russia back into the insular society the USSR was in the 70s. Total globalisation does not bother him - he’s got his money so he’ll get his wish of protecting the motherland from the evil west ( besides , he’ll access the west via the conduit of China and knows that, long term, the west will make its fragile peace with him as it needs Russian resources)
The nuclear option is simply not going to happen. This is not a world war and it won’t become one.
As well as the Ukrainians are doing, they won’t win this. The Russians will overwhelm them eventually. The worrying thing is they are seem prepared to flatten it to achieve that victory.
He thought there would a quick and near bloodless takeover.
He thought there would be tutting and mild sanctions, but acceptance of the Fair Accomplis.
Instead he's, bogged down and a prolonged nasty war has forced the entire world to wake up and take Ukraine's side.
Putin predicted none of this. He must have realized there was a risk but it's not part of the plan.
It's a disaster for him, just as much as it is for the rest of us.
He's a monumental bell end who took a massive bet and lost for all of us.
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