Your voting intentions

[Silvanus]

Evanivitch said:

Jordie Barretts sock said:

Silvanus said:

Jordie Barretts sock said:

You would think so. They surely realise with Reform's vote share, they are neck and neck with Labour.

I think you over estimate Reforms vote share

Well, I haven't looked recently, but how far out am I...

Labour ~ 42%
Con ~ 25%
Ref ~ 12%

Your posting in this thread is consistent, at the least

Reform will go the same way as UKIP, lots of votes, no seats.

You missed out the Brexit party, they were really popular weren't they?

[Kermit power]

Newc said:

CivicDuties said:

Newc said:

I won't vote Conservative again until they actually turn up at the polls as a Conservative party rather than wannabe Lib Dems.

That's right, because the LibDems, had they been in government, would have:

1 - Left the EU, SM and CU, and refused to reconsider the decision
2 - Attempted to implement the Rwanda policy
3 - Blocked migrant care workers from bringing children and family with them
4 - Prorogued Parliament unlawfully and lied to the Queen about it
5 - Implemented Liz Truss's lunatic right wing economic policies

I could go on. Yeah, sure the current Conservatives are just center left LibDems in disguise...

Alternatively
1 Followed through on a manifesto commitment and stuck with it
2 Offered the only practical solution - offshore processing - to illegal immigration
3 Published quite clear rules about how visas would be granted and then enforced them
4 Understood that Parliament is the supreme legislative body in the UK and its actions are not subject to the whims of unelected judges or ceremonial monarchs
5 Offered an alternative economic vision which upset all the fans of the status quo happily suckling on the teat of the state

But it wasn't all good. For instance

1 Introduced green policies with top down targets (net zero) rather than setting a goal and allowing the market to work out a path.
2 Failed to reform the planning regs to allow new housing
3 Failed to control both illegal and legal immigration
4 Didn't meaningfully deregulate any industry
5 Raised taxes

You know, just like the Lib Dems.

For point 2, offshore asylum processing only becomes the only practical solution if you deliberately create a backlog that makes it so. If, like France and Germany for example, you choose not to do that you suddenly discover that you can process 2-3x as many applicants per annum in a shorter timescale per applicant at a significantly lower cost to the taxpayer because you're not having to house them in hotels and you're letting them work to pay their own way a lot sooner.

For point 4, you're quite right. Parliament is the supreme legislative body. Not the PM or the Cabinet. As such, they had absolutely no right to try and prorogue said supreme legislative body illegally.

[Vanden Saab]

Kermit power said:

Newc said:

CivicDuties said:

Newc said:

I won't vote Conservative again until they actually turn up at the polls as a Conservative party rather than wannabe Lib Dems.

That's right, because the LibDems, had they been in government, would have:

1 - Left the EU, SM and CU, and refused to reconsider the decision
2 - Attempted to implement the Rwanda policy
3 - Blocked migrant care workers from bringing children and family with them
4 - Prorogued Parliament unlawfully and lied to the Queen about it
5 - Implemented Liz Truss's lunatic right wing economic policies

I could go on. Yeah, sure the current Conservatives are just center left LibDems in disguise...

Alternatively
1 Followed through on a manifesto commitment and stuck with it
2 Offered the only practical solution - offshore processing - to illegal immigration
3 Published quite clear rules about how visas would be granted and then enforced them
4 Understood that Parliament is the supreme legislative body in the UK and its actions are not subject to the whims of unelected judges or ceremonial monarchs
5 Offered an alternative economic vision which upset all the fans of the status quo happily suckling on the teat of the state

But it wasn't all good. For instance

1 Introduced green policies with top down targets (net zero) rather than setting a goal and allowing the market to work out a path.
2 Failed to reform the planning regs to allow new housing
3 Failed to control both illegal and legal immigration
4 Didn't meaningfully deregulate any industry
5 Raised taxes

You know, just like the Lib Dems.

For point 2, offshore asylum processing only becomes the only practical solution if you deliberately create a backlog that makes it so. If, like France and Germany for example, you choose not to do that you suddenly discover that you can process 2-3x as many applicants per annum in a shorter timescale per applicant at a significantly lower cost to the taxpayer because you're not having to house them in hotels and you're letting them work to pay their own way a lot sooner.

For point 4, you're quite right. Parliament is the supreme legislative body. Not the PM or the Cabinet. As such, they had absolutely no right to try and prorogue said supreme legislative body illegally.

2 years for Germany and almost 1 million awaiting a first decision in the EU.


https://www.dw.com/en/german-immigration-policy-wh...

https://euaa.europa.eu/latest-asylum-trends-asylum

[Kermit power]

Dagnir said:

Kermit power said:

I won't be voting Tory again in a hurry, but I just can't relate to that degree of negativity about the country.

Sure, the gutter press and ttter tell me that my country is overrun by immigrants, I'm paying 103% of my salary in tax and the only reason my wife and daughter haven't both been raped by an Asian grooming gang yet today is because their council-funded luxury minibus broke an axle in a 4 foot deep pothole on the way here, but in reality I've been able to keep hold of a well paid job (the odd year over £150k, but not often), am on track for a comfortable retirement by the time I'm 60 and have had no complaints about the service we've received from the NHS.

I absolutely recognise that plenty of people do have really stty lives, but I think there are a load more who aren't happy unless they're whining about how crap everything is!

Unfortunately this kind of thinking is precisely the problem.

I'm not criticising you, as its perfectly understandable to want to look after yourself and your family but it's the "I'm ok in my bubble" is both a symptom and a cause of this country's issues.

We use to have a national spirit, we used to be proud of being British. We used to want to stick together to protect our country and preserve our wonderful way of life.

Most of that is simply gone. Our societal cohesion has been obliterated. Our trust in our fellow citizens is utterly eroded. So many have been convinced that we're a terrible country with an immoral past.

It has been heartbreaking to watch unfold. To watch so many people willingly destroy what has made us great, whilst preaching that they're the ones doing the right thing, is beyond maddening and truly detestable.

(Not all that applies to the poster I'm replying to btw!)


Anyway...Britain is over. Wonderful history. We shaped the modern world but we're simply not that Britain anymore.

You're missing my point. Like any country we've got challenges of course, but we remain one of the greatest, wealthiest places to live on the planet.

I wasn't underlining the existence of some people living stty lives to sneer at them but yes, to recognise that others are less fortunate than I am and I can't speak for everyone.

That doesn't change the fact that for every person who does have a bad life, there's probably a dozen or more who've been told that their country is screwed by the tabloid press, social media and guttersnipe politicians and have chosen to believe it despite all statistical evidence.

Where that passes from sad to dangerous is when people start to believe, for example, that the country is "full" with no more space for immigrants despite the fact that we've got half the population density of the Netherlands, for example, and a rapidly ageing population that, without immigration, will leave the country unable to operate within a few generations.

In a pragmatic world we'd be looking at ways to increase our birth rate for the long term whilst figuring out how to get our population more evenly distributed in the medium term.

We still have a country to be proud of. We just need to ensure that we don't allow vile populists to throw that all away just by telling people we're fked over and over again until they start to believe it. If you're not convinced, just ask yourself how on earth we've reached a point where the modern day leaders of the country that essentially created the ECHR is seriously talking about leaving it, placing us in a club that currently consists of Russia and Belarus!

And how do they do it? Find a suitably alien scapegoat upon which to focus people's anger by telling them said scapegoat will have them over a barrel if we don't leave the ECHR to take away their inconvenient rights whilst hoping they don't notice that they're going to lose their own rights into the bargain.

We certainly have a more nuanced, less glorious past than we used to be taught at school but terrible and immoral? That's not our past, but if the populist Right get their way, it may yet become our future.

[hidetheelephants]

Kermit power said:

That doesn't change the fact that for every person who does have a bad life, there's probably a dozen or more who've been told that their country is screwed by the tabloid press, social media and guttersnipe politicians and have chosen to believe it despite all statistical evidence.

Guttersnipe is an excellent word and should be applied to miscreant politicians more often.

[Kermit power]

cossy400 said:

So SKS is now doubting his manifesto and saying it might not happen due to the Tories ruining the economy.

It's nothing new to lie I suppose.

How is he lying when there hasn't been an election yet?

If he starts to renege on manifesto commitments the day after the expected landslide then by all means walk round Westminister.screaming out.his lies with a megaphone, but until the polls open, surely he can change his manifesto as often as he wants without it being a lie?

[Silvanus]

Kermit power said:

cossy400 said:

So SKS is now doubting his manifesto and saying it might not happen due to the Tories ruining the economy.

It's nothing new to lie I suppose.

How is he lying when there hasn't been an election yet?

If he starts to renege on manifesto commitments the day after the expected landslide then by all means walk round Westminister.screaming out.his lies with a megaphone, but until the polls open, surely he can change his manifesto as often as he wants without it being a lie?

They haven't actually published a manifesto yet, very difficult to lie about something that doesn't exist.

[Kermit power]

Dagnir said:

President Merkin said:

What better times are those then?

You're trolling.

Don't feed people.

Why do you believe that it trolling?

You've claimed the country used go be much better than it is today. Others may disagree.

If you say when you believe that was, we can compare statistics to find out whether there is any rose tinting to your history.

[Jordie Barretts sock]

Gove leaving the sinking ship. That is 76 sitting Tory MPs standing down. More than in 1997.

Not looking good for Rishi is it?

[Vanden Saab]

Jordie Barretts sock said:

Gove leaving the sinking ship. That is 76 sitting Tory MPs standing down. More than in 1997.

Not looking good for Rishi is it?

24 more to go to match Labour's record.

[Xenoous]

I'm concerned at the current state of the country. I'm even more concerned at what it's going to look like in a couple of years.

Labour will only make things worse, in the name of tolerance. Conservatives have down a fantastic job and ruining the country already. It's a no win situation.

Why is our political situation so unbelievably bad? I laugh at the Americans with their crazy old man vs crazy old man election, but ours is just as bad, just less funny.

[S600BSB]

Jordie Barretts sock said:

Gove leaving the sinking ship. That is 76 sitting Tory MPs standing down. More than in 1997.

Not looking good for Rishi is it?

And Leadsom. Awful, the lot of them.

[S600BSB]

Xenoous said:

I'm concerned at the current state of the country. I'm even more concerned at what it's going to look like in a couple of years.

Labour will only make things worse, in the name of tolerance. Conservatives have down a fantastic job and ruining the country already. It's a no win situation.

Why is our political situation so unbelievably bad? I laugh at the Americans with their crazy old man vs crazy old man election, but ours is just as bad, just less funny.

The Labour government, if we get one, are going to face a monumental challenge to make progress in fixing the mess the country is in - everything broken and the country broke. But I can’t see them being worse than the Cons - not that there will be many of those left given how many are jumping ship at the moment.

[popeyewhite]

tangerine_sedge said:

popeyewhite said:

Tory for me.
My prime motivation being the economy and I see no way on Earth that Labour will do better.

Have you been in a coma for the last few years?

No, but i did consider a career in medicine years ago.

HTH

[Mr Penguin]

Jordie Barretts sock said:

Gove leaving the sinking ship. That is 76 sitting Tory MPs standing down. More than in 1997.

Not looking good for Rishi is it?

But a lower percentage of MPs (for now) because Major had a minority government by the end.

[jdw100]

Post Office scandal.

Tainted Blood scandal.

Not our fault, didn’t know anything, Inquiry etc etc.

Both have been covered extensively in Private Eye for a decade or more…..

How about COVID procurement?

Where I live we’ve already got some officials and related business people in prison for colluding to make money for friends or political contacts.

Thousands of contracts have been investigated. How’s that going in UK?

Example: a Health Minister that added a ‘handling fee’ into the contract for a mate’s company that was providing food packages for people that lost jobs because of COVID - got given 20 years.

How’s that going in the UK?

[768]

Kermit power said:

You're missing my point. Like any country we've got challenges of course, but we remain one of the greatest, wealthiest places to live on the planet.

One of the wealthiest by GDP, I'd agree. Yet we fall significantly when you look at purchasing power parity. And I don't think that picture is improving.

Kermit power said:

Where that passes from sad to dangerous is when people start to believe, for example, that the country is "full" with no more space for immigrants despite the fact that we've got half the population density of the Netherlands, for example, and a rapidly ageing population that, without immigration, will leave the country unable to operate within a few generations.

When people refer to the country being full it's not about population density. It's capacity for GP appointments, A&E, NHS dentists, the roads, state schools, trains. Our population has increased far faster than that capacity.

The planet as a whole has an ageing population. We have to adapt to that, I don't think harvesting lower GDP counties of their working age population is the right answer.

[MC Bodge]

Unlike the Netherlands, much of the UK is fairly empty of people.

Some regions of England are very densely populated.

[JagLover]

MC Bodge said:

Unlike the Netherlands, much of the UK is fairly empty of people.

Some regions of England are very densely populated.

Yes

The Netherlands is mostly reclaimed Marshland so is mostly a mixture of farmland and urban areas. England has large areas set aside for national parks and also lots of areas unsuitable for towns and cities.

Back in 2011 the "lived density" of England was almost exactly the same as the Netherlands and have course the population has grown a fair bit since then.

https://theconversation.com/think-your-country-is-...

[S600BSB]

Mr Penguin said:

Jordie Barretts sock said:

Gove leaving the sinking ship. That is 76 sitting Tory MPs standing down. More than in 1997.

Not looking good for Rishi is it?

But a lower percentage of MPs (for now) because Major had a minority government by the end.

Largest number quitting a party since the war. Tells you all you need to know.