another abuse gang

[Four Litre]

996owner said:

freakybacon said:

Yorkshire. Both cases ongoing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-511802...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-511824...

23 in the dock.

And again, look at the pictures and names. A common theme/culture/whatever. When for the sake of the children involved and future victims will this be dealt with?

I cant understand what you mean - I cant see anything that would remotely link these men together. I cant believe you are insinuating that there is a common theme with their culture.

[Four Litre]

A Winner Is You said:

This ought to be a source of national shame, but people are angrier about someone on Question Time saying something mildly controversial.

I find it fascinating how this is barely mentioned and I certainly haven't heard of widespread revulsion. Not a squeak from #metoo or any other feminist groups either, the girl in Cyprus had way more of a following from associated feminist organisations.

You can see people have been so indoctrinated not to say anything about crimes regarding ethnicity/ culture for fear of being branded as a racist that they keep quiet.

I don't agree with Tommy Robinson or his ilk, but you can see the treatment he received was fast tracked through in order to silence this (as well as not cocking up a court case). Its really a national disgrace that this has been going on for so long. I for one would like to see anyone identified as assisting in covering this up should face a severe punishment. The reality is they are also guilty of assisting offenders.

[JuanCarlosFandango]

This is a real mess. You could hardly imagine a better way of stoking mistrust, division and anger.

Ultimately though I think you need a bit of "victim blaming." Whether this is excused by Islam, Pakistani culture, complicit or corrupt authorities, who or whatever is not the point.

How could this happen without totally dysfunctional families and communities? Where were their fathers and brothers and uncles? Not just to kill the perpetrators (though that's certainly a thought if the authorities don't act) but to stop this happening in the first place. To nip it in the bud when it was isolated incidents rather than letting it become an epidemic. What were their mothers telling them about keeping themselves safe? Were they talking to each other?

Don't tell me that they were all so terrified of being called racist that they just let it go.

As for those who were in "care" the same applies. What sort of care lets 13 and 14 year old girls wander the streets cavorting with adult men?

It's a cultural failing alright. Not with Islam, Pakistan or Asia but with working class provincial Britain.

[voyds9]

freakybacon said:

Yorkshire. Both cases ongoing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-511802...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-511824...

23 in the dock.

And no gagging order in place so the news can report.

[JNW1]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

It's a cultural failing alright. Not with Islam, Pakistan or Asia but with working class provincial Britain.

So in your eyes the fault lies mainly within the community of the victims rather than within the community of the abusers? I do actually agree there are cultural failings with what you describe as working class provincial Britain but to suggest this series of atrocities has nothing to do with cultural failings in the community of the perpetrators is stretching credibility somewhat IMO.....

[Europa1]

A Winner Is You said:

This ought to be a source of national shame, but people are angrier about someone on Question Time saying something mildly controversial.

And that someone on Question Time, if I recall correctly, did reference the fact that grooming scandals got ignored.

Edited by Europa1 on Wednesday 22 January 10:08

[2Btoo]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

This is a real mess. You could hardly imagine a better way of stoking mistrust, division and anger.

Ultimately though I think you need a bit of "victim blaming." Whether this is excused by Islam, Pakistani culture, complicit or corrupt authorities, who or whatever is not the point.

How could this happen without totally dysfunctional families and communities? Where were their fathers and brothers and uncles? Not just to kill the perpetrators (though that's certainly a thought if the authorities don't act) but to stop this happening in the first place. To nip it in the bud when it was isolated incidents rather than letting it become an epidemic. What were their mothers telling them about keeping themselves safe? Were they talking to each other?

Don't tell me that they were all so terrified of being called racist that they just let it go.

As for those who were in "care" the same applies. What sort of care lets 13 and 14 year old girls wander the streets cavorting with adult men?

It's a cultural failing alright. Not with Islam, Pakistan or Asia but with working class provincial Britain.

It's a disaster, for sure. And no disaster is one single big thing that goes wrong; it's a lot of little things that go wrong at the same time. Had the girls had parents looking out for them then it wouldn't have happened; had the police not been so willing to sweep it under the carpet then it wouldn't have happened; had social services not labelled the victims as 'prostitutes' then it wouldn't have happened - this much is all true.

However blaming the victims is a step too far, IMHO. Blame lies with the authorities who should have prevented it but didn't - for whatever reason (and if that reason is political correctness then people should be deeply ashamed) and by far the greatest blame has to lie with the perpetrators. For the victims to be blamed doesn't seem appropriate at all.

[JuanCarlosFandango]

JNW1 said:

So in your eyes the fault lies mainly within the community of the victims rather than within the community of the abusers? I do actually agree there are cultural failings with what you describe as working class provincial Britain but to suggest this series of atrocities has nothing to do with cultural failings in the community of the perpetrators is stretching credibility somewhat IMO.....

I certainly didn't say the perpetrators were blameless. They are callous criminals. Pakistan is known to be a corrupt, violent and backwards country. Islam is known to be a religion which at best is easily twisted to excuse all kinds of horror. There are plenty of foul predators who are not Pakistani or Muslim too.

The whole point of a successful and healthy culture is to contain and eliminate these threats, not just sit back and expect the police and social services to deal with everything while your teenage daughter gets abused time and time again.

[JuanCarlosFandango]

2Btoo said:

It's a disaster, for sure. And no disaster is one single big thing that goes wrong; it's a lot of little things that go wrong at the same time. Had the girls had parents looking out for them then it wouldn't have happened; had the police not been so willing to sweep it under the carpet then it wouldn't have happened; had social services not labelled the victims as 'prostitutes' then it wouldn't have happened - this much is all true.

However blaming the victims is a step too far, IMHO. Blame lies with the authorities who should have prevented it but didn't - for whatever reason (and if that reason is political correctness then people should be deeply ashamed) and by far the greatest blame has to lie with the perpetrators. For the victims to be blamed doesn't seem appropriate at all.

When I say victim blaming I don't actually mean that those 13 and 14 year old children were to blame. Their behaviour and their lack of restraint enabled it, and that is the fault of their parents and guardians.

Yes the authorities should have done more, sooner and more boldly. Let's not forget that when this was seemingly at its peak (during the Blair years) the government was busy labelling police forces institutionally racist. It would have taken a brave policeman or social worker then to poke this nest.

In fact I think that this reliance on the authorities is part of the problem. The authorities exist because police and courts are a fairer and more civilised way of dealing with problems. This is wonderful so long as they do actually deal with problems, but they are not a viable alternative to dealing with problems yourself and should not be a reason to leave yourself vulnerable to problems arising.

[Triumph Trollomite]

Knock knock
Who is there
Elephant in the room
Elephant in the room who

Backwards cultures have fked up views towards vulnerable whit wes but it's ok we have to ignore it otherwise its racist

Knock knock
Who is there
Just a fat white fk off mp protected by the government of the day

[2Btoo]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

2Btoo said:

It's a disaster, for sure. And no disaster is one single big thing that goes wrong; it's a lot of little things that go wrong at the same time. Had the girls had parents looking out for them then it wouldn't have happened; had the police not been so willing to sweep it under the carpet then it wouldn't have happened; had social services not labelled the victims as 'prostitutes' then it wouldn't have happened - this much is all true.

However blaming the victims is a step too far, IMHO. Blame lies with the authorities who should have prevented it but didn't - for whatever reason (and if that reason is political correctness then people should be deeply ashamed) and by far the greatest blame has to lie with the perpetrators. For the victims to be blamed doesn't seem appropriate at all.

When I say victim blaming I don't actually mean that those 13 and 14 year old children were to blame. Their behaviour and their lack of restraint enabled it, and that is the fault of their parents and guardians.

Yes the authorities should have done more, sooner and more boldly. Let's not forget that when this was seemingly at its peak (during the Blair years) the government was busy labelling police forces institutionally racist. It would have taken a brave policeman or social worker then to poke this nest.

In fact I think that this reliance on the authorities is part of the problem. The authorities exist because police and courts are a fairer and more civilised way of dealing with problems. This is wonderful so long as they do actually deal with problems, but they are not a viable alternative to dealing with problems yourself and should not be a reason to leave yourself vulnerable to problems arising.

With you all the way.

[Ridgemont]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

2Btoo said:

It's a disaster, for sure. And no disaster is one single big thing that goes wrong; it's a lot of little things that go wrong at the same time. Had the girls had parents looking out for them then it wouldn't have happened; had the police not been so willing to sweep it under the carpet then it wouldn't have happened; had social services not labelled the victims as 'prostitutes' then it wouldn't have happened - this much is all true.

However blaming the victims is a step too far, IMHO. Blame lies with the authorities who should have prevented it but didn't - for whatever reason (and if that reason is political correctness then people should be deeply ashamed) and by far the greatest blame has to lie with the perpetrators. For the victims to be blamed doesn't seem appropriate at all.

When I say victim blaming I don't actually mean that those 13 and 14 year old children were to blame. Their behaviour and their lack of restraint enabled it, and that is the fault of their parents and guardians.

Yes the authorities should have done more, sooner and more boldly. Let's not forget that when this was seemingly at its peak (during the Blair years) the government was busy labelling police forces institutionally racist. It would have taken a brave policeman or social worker then to poke this nest.

In fact I think that this reliance on the authorities is part of the problem. The authorities exist because police and courts are a fairer and more civilised way of dealing with problems. This is wonderful so long as they do actually deal with problems, but they are not a viable alternative to dealing with problems yourself and should not be a reason to leave yourself vulnerable to problems arising.

One of the more troubling elements from the Bradford trial was the outraged response from the accused: ‘they are trash from your society: why do you suddenly care for them?, you never did before?’.
A defence that damned them and also society simultaneously.
However there are plenty of immigrants who have made their lives in this country without creating a weird subculture that treats women of all types as a commodity while essentially shielded by their community.

[Bigends]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

2Btoo said:

It's a disaster, for sure. And no disaster is one single big thing that goes wrong; it's a lot of little things that go wrong at the same time. Had the girls had parents looking out for them then it wouldn't have happened; had the police not been so willing to sweep it under the carpet then it wouldn't have happened; had social services not labelled the victims as 'prostitutes' then it wouldn't have happened - this much is all true.

However blaming the victims is a step too far, IMHO. Blame lies with the authorities who should have prevented it but didn't - for whatever reason (and if that reason is political correctness then people should be deeply ashamed) and by far the greatest blame has to lie with the perpetrators. For the victims to be blamed doesn't seem appropriate at all.

When I say victim blaming I don't actually mean that those 13 and 14 year old children were to blame. Their behaviour and their lack of restraint enabled it, and that is the fault of their parents and guardians.

Yes the authorities should have done more, sooner and more boldly. Let's not forget that when this was seemingly at its peak (during the Blair years) the government was busy labelling police forces institutionally racist. It would have taken a brave policeman or social worker then to poke this nest.

In fact I think that this reliance on the authorities is part of the problem. The authorities exist because police and courts are a fairer and more civilised way of dealing with problems. This is wonderful so long as they do actually deal with problems, but they are not a viable alternative to dealing with problems yourself and should not be a reason to leave yourself vulnerable to problems arising.

From an independent enquiry in 2013 - not quite as simple as blaming parents and guardians

Grooming
5.15 The process of grooming has been well documented in national reports and
research. Many of the cases we examined showed classic evidence of grooming.
Many of the children were already vulnerable when grooming began. The
perpetrators targeted children’s residential units and residential services for care
leavers. It was not unusual for children in residential services and schools to
introduce other children to the perpetrators.
“I know he really loves me … (about a perpetrator convicted of
very serious offences against other children)”
5.16 Many of the case files we read described children who had troubled family
backgrounds, with a history of domestic violence, parental addiction, and in some
cases serious mental health problems. A significant number of the victims had a
history of child neglect and/or sexual abuse when they were younger. Some had a
desperate need for attention and affection.
“He may have other girlfriends but I am special…”

[Dog Star]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

This is a real mess. You could hardly imagine a better way of stoking mistrust, division and anger.

Ultimately though I think you need a bit of "victim blaming." Whether this is excused by Islam, Pakistani culture, complicit or corrupt authorities, who or whatever is not the point.

How could this happen without totally dysfunctional families and communities? Where were their fathers and brothers and uncles? Not just to kill the perpetrators (though that's certainly a thought if the authorities don't act) but to stop this happening in the first place. To nip it in the bud when it was isolated incidents rather than letting it become an epidemic. What were their mothers telling them about keeping themselves safe? Were they talking to each other?

Don't tell me that they were all so terrified of being called racist that they just let it go.

As for those who were in "care" the same applies. What sort of care lets 13 and 14 year old girls wander the streets cavorting with adult men?

It's a cultural failing alright. Not with Islam, Pakistan or Asia but with working class provincial Britain.

You don’t know what the fk you are talking about.

[Ridgemont]

Interesting: Newsnight is now naming police officers in GMP who only submitted written testimony refusing to be interviewed under Burnham’s enquiry, amongst others:
Steve Thompson: now CC of West Midlands
Dave Jones: became CC of North York’s (retired)
Tony Cook: now head of ops at NCA child protection (!)
Blimey. You can see why the police have been slow on this.

[JuanCarlosFandango]

Ridgemont
It's appalling and he is clearly a nasty piece of work, but you have to ask what has happened to give that impression. It was not an isolated incident.

Dog Star
What am I missing? How can systematic rape and abuse of children not represent some sort of a falling?

[Digga]

Ridgemont said:

Interesting: Newsnight is now naming police officers in GMP who only submitted written testimony refusing to be interviewed under Burnham’s enquiry, amongst others:
Steve Thompson: now CC of West Midlands
Dave Jones: became CC of North York’s (retired)
Tony Cook: now head of ops at NCA child protection (!)
Blimey. You can see why the police have been slow on this.

^This. It is utterly disgraceful to see how this issue was dealt with and I have no doubt many of those responsible for (initially) dismissing the problem are still in circulation, for now. They need rooting out, as does the wrong-headed, hand-wringing, limp liberal system that inculcated the ideas that reinforced this common behaviour. It is like these people had a common purpose.

[Dog Star]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

Dog Star
What am I missing? How can systematic rape and abuse of children not represent some sort of a falling?

JuanCarlosFandango said:

"It's a cultural failing alright. Not with Islam, Pakistan or Asia but with working class provincial Britain."

It's "right on" st like that which caused this to start with. Not "working class" people.
I suspect you've got not one jot of experience with these people, or of having a female relative abused, molested or beaten by these stinking, stone age scum. Policies of the intellectual left, experiments in integration and multiculturalism - have let this community run riot, and they still operate outside of most norms of civilised, honest behaviour.

[lampchair]

Dog Star said:

JuanCarlosFandango said:

This is a real mess. You could hardly imagine a better way of stoking mistrust, division and anger.

Ultimately though I think you need a bit of "victim blaming." Whether this is excused by Islam, Pakistani culture, complicit or corrupt authorities, who or whatever is not the point.

How could this happen without totally dysfunctional families and communities? Where were their fathers and brothers and uncles? Not just to kill the perpetrators (though that's certainly a thought if the authorities don't act) but to stop this happening in the first place. To nip it in the bud when it was isolated incidents rather than letting it become an epidemic. What were their mothers telling them about keeping themselves safe? Were they talking to each other?

Don't tell me that they were all so terrified of being called racist that they just let it go.

As for those who were in "care" the same applies. What sort of care lets 13 and 14 year old girls wander the streets cavorting with adult men?

It's a cultural failing alright. Not with Islam, Pakistan or Asia but with working class provincial Britain.

You don’t know what the fk you are talking about.

Wonder what he thinks when a woman gets raped/assaulted on a night out.

Maybe it was her fault for dressing up.

[lampchair]

Ridgemont said:

Tony Cook: now head of ops at NCA child protection (!)

It’s like Line of Duty. Jeeze.