How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 9)

[Robertj21a]

Andy20vt said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Andy20vt said:

Has anyone else noticed the lack of ethnic minorities or 'non-white' on Nigels little pub crawl?

From the video I watched this morning it seemed to be made up entirely of white people of middle age or older?

Coincidence?

You were saying Andy??

This will keep you busy.

Nice selective photo choice there but at first glance still at least 4 people of ethnicity. Perhaps if you crop the image to your liking you can zoom in on an area of just white people?

Other trend that's apparent with these photos you are posting is the age of the people. Average age must be at least 20 years younger than Nigel's march. I didn't know if you wanted me to spot that?

I'm puzzled. Just why have you felt it necessary to bring ethnicity into this debate. What hidden agenda is lurking behind your numerous Remain-supporting posts ?

[SeeFive]

Andy20vt said:

ELUSIVEJIM said:

Olay cream must be working wonders on the elderly.

Two out of 137

So, you are saying that it was implied ageism, not implied racism that drove your question then?

How is your tea towel looking on the hook?

[SeeFive]

mattmurdock said:

Carl_Manchester said:

4 days till Brexit

Don't you mean 18 days till Brexit?

I can think of two more things that need to happen before the extension of the date is legitimate in UK democratic law.

One cited by a parliamentary QC (who should know the law) and another which is the current UK legislation around A50, and without the other in place will itself not exist on March 30th.

[SunsetZed]

Helicopter123 said:

andymadmak said:

Helicopter123 said:

I'm happy with the status quo and in trusting our elected governments to make decisions on my behalf over the next 20 years. That is what I would be voting for.

So you don't know what you're voting for. OK. Bit hypocritical of you to be criticising Brexit voters for doing the same (according to you) wasn't it?

I know exactly what I voted for in 2016, the status quo.

Did you vote for May's deal, no-deal, Canada + or something else?

The status quo doesn't exist, you voted for a direction of travel just like leavers did in the other direction. I suspect that most, like me, voted to leave at any cost. Maybe some didn't, I haven't asked everybody but most leavers understood the EU were never just going to roll over and give us a great deal that made it more attractive for others to leave.

[mattmurdock]

s2art said:

Ignoring the commons library? If so you lose credibility.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/brexit/no-dea...

Did you actually read that article? In which it suggests, as further reading, an article by Peter Ungphakorn entitled:

'Why claims about a ‘WTO Article 24’ interim agreement are a red herring'

Both articles are trying to put to bed the idea that a) GATT Article 24 is anything new and b) GATT Article 24 would be any help to the current situation.

[anonymous-user]

Robertj21a said:

I'm puzzled. Just why have you felt it necessary to bring ethnicity into this debate. What hidden agenda is lurking behind your numerous Remain-supporting posts ?

Because time after time Leavers are in denial and the first way of finding a solution to any problem is to engage with and accept it. I could ask this question for example:

There are unfortunately some racists in the UK, thankfully I hope a small number. Which way would these racists have been most likely to vote in the referendum, Leave or Remain?

I'm not accusing leave voters of being racists, just pointing out that if they want to engage with Remainers to come round to their way of thinking then perhaps the Leavers should address some perfectly understandable concerns that Remainers may have about this issue, rather than seeking to sweep it under the carpet time and time again only for it to appear time and time again.

[ElectricSoup]

mattmurdock said:

s2art said:

Ignoring the commons library? If so you lose credibility.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/brexit/no-dea...

Did you actually read that article? In which it suggests, as further reading, an article by Peter Ungphakorn entitled:

'Why claims about a ‘WTO Article 24’ interim agreement are a red herring'

Both articles are trying to put to bed the idea that a) GATT Article 24 is anything new and b) GATT Article 24 would be any help to the current situation.

Nah, that bloke sounds a bit foreign. John Redwood will have the answers.

[andymadmak]

Andy20vt said:

Hardline Brexiteers have consistently not supported a 2 year transition period.

Erm, A50 has a two year period built in. Makes not one jot of difference what 'hardline brexiteers' support or otherwise in that regard

[andymadmak]

ElectricSoup said:

Well that's not what you said, is it? The 2 years from A50 is not a "Transition". The term "Transition" only comes in to effect when discussing a DEAL with the EU, such as May's Deal. This is the accepted terminology which has been applied for several years now.

Please be accurate in your comments.

You may have voted on the desire you describe, but that is not what the official Vote Leave campaigned on. They told us that a deal would be negotiated before any legal process to leave was initiated.

So you voted for something nobody was offering. There's a word for that.

you do know that the EU refused to negotiate before A50 was triggered, don't you?

[gizlaroc]

Andy20vt said:

Because time after time Leavers are in denial and the first way of finding a solution to any problem is to engage with and accept it. I could ask this question for example:

There are unfortunately some racists in the UK, thankfully I hope a small number. Which way would these racists have been most likely to vote in the referendum, Leave or Remain?

I'm not accusing leave voters of being racists, just pointing out that if they want to engage with Remainers to come round to their way of thinking then perhaps the Leavers should address some perfectly understandable concerns that Remainers may have about this issue, rather than seeking to sweep it under the carpet time and time again only for it to appear time and time again.

The fact you even think like that says far more about you than anyone else.

[SeeFive]

Andy20vt said:

Robertj21a said:

I'm puzzled. Just why have you felt it necessary to bring ethnicity into this debate. What hidden agenda is lurking behind your numerous Remain-supporting posts ?

Because time after time Leavers are in denial and the first way of finding a solution to any problem is to engage with and accept it. I could ask this question for example:

There are unfortunately some racists in the UK, thankfully I hope a small number. Which way would these racists have been most likely to vote in the referendum, Leave or Remain?

I'm not accusing leave voters of being racists, just pointing out that if they want to engage with Remainers to come round to their way of thinking then perhaps the Leavers should address some perfectly understandable concerns that Remainers may have about this issue, rather than seeking to sweep it under the carpet time and time again only for it to appear time and time again.

It is addressed. People of all races, religions, sexuality, age and cultures among any other denomination you care to mention were free to attend both marches. For whatever reason, those,individuals chose not to.

It is your problem, not anyone else’s.

I am now off to a UB40 gig. Please sort yourself out while I am there and gain some integrity. The biggest problem leave voters have in engaging with certain individual remain voters is exactly this prejudice and dishonesty which precludes any level of debate.

[silentbrown]

andymadmak said:

Erm, A50 has a two year period built in. Makes not one jot of difference what 'hardline brexiteers' support or otherwise in that regard

You're confusing the mandatory negotiating period with the (possible) transition period.

[anonymous-user]

Andy20vt said:

Because time after time Leavers are in denial and the first way of finding a solution to any problem is to engage with and accept it. I could ask this question for example:

There are unfortunately some racists in the UK, thankfully I hope a small number. Which way would these racists have been most likely to vote in the referendum, Leave or Remain?

I'm not accusing leave voters of being racists, just pointing out that if they want to engage with Remainers to come round to their way of thinking then perhaps the Leavers should address some perfectly understandable concerns that Remainers may have about this issue, rather than seeking to sweep it under the carpet time and time again only for it to appear time and time again.

You are always accusing Leavers being racist of implying in a roundabout way.

But this is the typical way remoaners like yourself act.

Will put a loaded question out there so someone bites and then you accuse them of being racist.

Kindergarten stuff.

[anonymous-user]

SeeFive said:

It is addressed. People of all races, religions, sexuality, age and cultures among any other denomination you care to mention were free to attend both marches. For whatever reason, those,individuals chose not to.

It is your problem, not anyone else’s.

I am now off to a UB40 gig. Please sort yourself out while I am there and gain some integrity. The biggest problem leave voters have in engaging with certain individual remain voters is exactly this prejudice and dishonesty which precludes any level of debate.

I see you can't answer the question I posed?

[andymadmak]

Andy20vt said:

I'm not accusing leave voters of being racists,

Actually, yes you are. Just be brave and come out and say it, like you know you want to. All this dancing around the issue just makes you look even sillier.
So a small number of people who voted a particular way are racist. (it's an assumption, completely without supporting evidence on your part that no racists voted for Remain btw), what difference does that make.

If I loftily declared that I thought that the majority of pedophiles voted to remain would that be any more valid? (absolutely not) Should that make me less inclined to engage with Remain voters? (nope)

You played the race card (badly), just like so many other Remain voters. I am genuinely disappointed that you've turned out to be just another Slasher/Glo wannabe

[anonymous-user]

Andy20vt said:

Because time after time Leavers are in denial and the first way of finding a solution to any problem is to engage with and accept it. I could ask this question for example:

There are unfortunately some racists in the UK, thankfully I hope a small number. Which way would these racists have been most likely to vote in the referendum, Leave or Remain?

I'm not accusing leave voters of being racists, just pointing out that if they want to engage with Remainers to come round to their way of thinking then perhaps the Leavers should address some perfectly understandable concerns that Remainers may have about this issue, rather than seeking to sweep it under the carpet time and time again only for it to appear time and time again.

Leavers don't want to find a solution?

You could say exactly the same with remainers.

What solution are you wanting apart from stopping the referendum result??

You should be delighted that your remainer friend came back with a deal which is basically giving your friends in the EU all the power.

[andymadmak]

silentbrown said:

andymadmak said:

Erm, A50 has a two year period built in. Makes not one jot of difference what 'hardline brexiteers' support or otherwise in that regard

You're confusing the mandatory negotiating period with the (possible) transition period.

I said I voted for Exit on WTO, and that there would be a 2 year transitionary period. I knew that this period existed under the A50 provision.
Call it what you like, but 2 years is 2 years and I knew it was there.

[SeeFive]

Andy20vt said:

SeeFive said:

It is addressed. People of all races, religions, sexuality, age and cultures among any other denomination you care to mention were free to attend both marches. For whatever reason, those,individuals chose not to.

It is your problem, not anyone else’s.

I am now off to a UB40 gig. Please sort yourself out while I am there and gain some integrity. The biggest problem leave voters have in engaging with certain individual remain voters is exactly this prejudice and dishonesty which precludes any level of debate.

I see you can't answer the question I posed?

I can, but chose not to until you resolve your bigotry issues.

As mentioned, the biggest problem Leave voters have in engaging with certain individual remain voters is exactly this prejudice and dishonesty which precludes any level of debate.

You wear that crown. I will not be engaging to answer your question, purely to help you gain some self awareness and display a little honesty and responsibility for your rhetoric should you choose to.

Presses ignore.

[alfie2244]

Andy20vt said:

Because time after time Leavers are in denial and the first way of finding a solution to any problem is to engage with and accept it. I could ask this question for example:

There are unfortunately some racists in the UK, thankfully I hope a small number. Which way would these racists have been most likely to vote in the referendum, Leave or Remain?

I'm not accusing leave voters of being racists, just pointing out that if they want to engage with Remainers to come round to their way of thinking then perhaps the Leavers should address some perfectly understandable concerns that Remainers may have about this issue, rather than seeking to sweep it under the carpet time and time again only for it to appear time and time again.

You are a very poor imitation of our dearly departed slasher, and simply couldn't hold a candle to our very own JJ.....we have had several years to get use to this form of "debate" on here so it is a bit of a blunt instrument now but I am sure Will Self is very proud of you.

[Murph7355]

Andy20vt said:

Robertj21a said:

I'm puzzled. Just why have you felt it necessary to bring ethnicity into this debate. What hidden agenda is lurking behind your numerous Remain-supporting posts ?

Because time after time Leavers are in denial and the first way of finding a solution to any problem is to engage with and accept it. I could ask this question for example:

There are unfortunately some racists in the UK, thankfully I hope a small number. Which way would these racists have been most likely to vote in the referendum, Leave or Remain?

I'm not accusing leave voters of being racists, just pointing out that if they want to engage with Remainers to come round to their way of thinking then perhaps the Leavers should address some perfectly understandable concerns that Remainers may have about this issue, rather than seeking to sweep it under the carpet time and time again only for it to appear time and time again.

So despite the number of racists in the UK being small (hopefully), it's down to those who voted Leave to address Remainers' "concerns" on, presumably, racists and their proclivities?

There were racists in this country before the referendum, even before the EU believe it or not. There will be racists in this country after we have left (should we actually leave) and after the EU ceases to exist (if it ever does). Leave voters have nothing to address on the racism front any more than any other group have (other than the actual racists).

If you're not accusing people of anything, the simplest way for you to be credible on that front is simply not to bring it up at all. Otherwise you just come over as an unpleasant oaf.

Now, when it comes to being "...in denial and the first way of finding a solution to any problem is to engage with and accept it..." perhaps you could actually stick to the point of these fecking threads, take some of your own medicine and start being a little more introspective about why Remain actually lost the referendum in the first place. Or even the real reasons it happened at all.

I'll give you a clue - the number of actual racists in this country is (hopefully) small. So they aren't the reason. Start "engaging" and "accepting" the actuality of the situation