School protests - sex education

[Andeh1]

Davos123 said:

They could have solved this problem by making all toilets gender neutral. My office doesn't have urinals in the men's - always find it a bit silly we bother to have male and female toilets when it's just a room of closed cubicles.

Maybe - but we now have a Feminists network at work, who wins out on that one? Women's rights vs Gender Fluid's rights? Who is the more important social political correctness feelings group?

[Davos123]

Andeh1 said:

Maybe - but we now have a Feminists network at work, who wins out on that one? Women's rights vs Gender Fluid's rights? Who is the more important social political correctness feelings group?

Gender neutral toilets have precisely fk all to do with transgenderism in my book - it just doesn't make sense to arbitrarily split out where we st by gender in most places.

[otolith]

Davos123 said:

Gender neutral toilets have precisely fk all to do with transgenderism in my book - it just doesn't make sense to arbitrarily split out where we st by gender in most places.

It doesn't really make rational sense to segregate areas with nudity either, but we are dealing with feelings and culture here. Obviously mixed cubicles in either case are easier for people to accept, but "I don't want to see someone else's bits if they're not like mine" and "I don't want someone with different bits to hear me stting" are similar reactions.

[gregs656]

otolith said:

It doesn't really make rational sense to segregate areas with nudity either, but we are dealing with feelings and culture here. Obviously mixed cubicles in either case are easier for people to accept, but "I don't want to see someone else's bits if they're not like mine" and "I don't want someone with different bits to hear me stting" are similar reactions.

Ideally they would be done similarly to toilets on planes for example, so a completely sealed individual space but probably with shared hand washing facilities to save some space.

I believe my old secondary school modified their toilets to be like this to reduce vandalism.

It seems to be fairly common in bars and restaurants here but I don't think it is for gender reasons.

It is also how disabled toilets function.

[Labradorofperception]

gregs656 said:

Ideally they would be done similarly to toilets on planes for example, so a completely sealed individual space but probably with shared hand washing facilities to save some space.

I believe my old secondary school modified their toilets to be like this to reduce vandalism.

It seems to be fairly common in bars and restaurants here but I don't think it is for gender reasons.

It is also how disabled toilets function.

The same were a long standing joke in Ally McBeal. Shared bogs seems to be a "thing" .....

[gregs656]

I can't check but I think the new (now probably 10 years old) council toilets in my old home town were built to be individual too, again nothing to do with gender but perhaps to do providing a number of accessible facilities and changing facilities for parents and children all in one go.

[Dromedary66]

gregs656 said:

I can't check but I think the new (now probably 10 years old) council toilets in my old home town were built to be individual too, again nothing to do with gender but perhaps to do providing a number of accessible facilities and changing facilities for parents and children all in one go.

I think it makes sense practically speaking.

I don't think companies should be forced to do it just because Derek likes to tuck his cock between his legs and shout "I'm a lady you see" to nobody who cares.

[Halb]

Andeh1 said:

The first I ever really noticed about this whole aspect of society was when a VERY openly 'Gender Fluid' chap in the office started a campaign to get a 'Gender Neutral' toilet set up in the office. No one paid much attention to it, but just got on with their business. A few months later one of the female toilets was announced with much fanfare that it was now gender neutral.... I still didn't pay it a huge amount of attention - it didn't effect me.
However - we had a team meeting, and a few of the women in the room brought it up, and put forwards a really eye opening counter argument to it. Their toilets are already 'busy' because women traditionally spend longer & have less usable facilities (no urinals....), and now they had effectively lost 20% of their toilets because one gender fluid chap & his campaign had opened up their toilet to men. They explained very respectively that this one chap' rights, beliefs & political correctness had penalised them and why should his views matter more then theirs. There was only ONE of him/gender fluid, vs several dozen women who now all had lost out to him.
No one really spoke up or did anything other then mutter general acceptance - but the situation REALLY stuck with me. I couldn't shake the feeling of how upset I would be had I lost out on a much needed facility to because one chap felt he deserved special attention.

Is there a disabled toilet? They are gender neutral, and pretty amazing, space, sink, red cord for disco.
When I worked in an office environment, our section, the nearest loo was a disabled toilet. Heaven.

[Rayan77]

As someone who vehemently disagrees with these lessons I also find it very worrying that any MP or government worker who agrees with those who oppose the lessons is threatened with being fired. This is the beginning of a very dangerous tend that jeopardizes free speech and so called “hate speech” laws could be used to further oppress people’s opinions. The MPs job is to represent his constituents in parliament and give them a voice and when they do their threatened with dismissal. Could be the beginning of a dictatorship and the end of freedom of speech and religion

[PorkRind]

Dog Star said:

I have serious objections to this sort of thing, not because I give a flying fk about LGBT blah blah rights etc, but quite simply because of the time wasted on it.

Do you think that kids in China or India are having their schooldays taken up with this kind of crap? I very much doubt it - I deeply suspect they're working themselves to the bone learning languages, maths, physics and all the other things that they need to know in order to make sure that they can work in a competitive global economy, not wasting hours being taught about whether a bloke in a dress can use the ladies bogs or not.

If folk want to have their kids educated about this then I personally think that it ought to be done as an optional after school activity, not wasting valuable teaching time. It's a big old dog eat dog world out there.

Being all right-on is all very well until you end up down the job centre signing on because the local factory has upped sticks to China or you've had your IT infrastructure moved to India because the staff are a bit cheaper but a lot better educated because they've not had their education wasted on this stuff.

Just my 2p, I don't have kids and if you're happy for your kids schooltime being wasted then knock yourself out.

Right on, captain.

[PorkRind]

Countdown said:

bristolbaron said:

markcoznottz said:

Good luck with getting the Pakistani community behind this,it's just not thier thing at all.

We are in it for the long run to be fair things like this are a side show. When Tony Blair green lit £40 billion of arms sales to Saudi Arabia, he tied our hands. What came the other way was money for wahhabist/deobanist mosques in the uk, with extremely conservative values. We also buy lpg off Qatar who do similar. Never mind the other gas that' originates in Russia! Not much room to move really and very precarious relationships. Not a subject that gets raised much although someone raised the point in question time, brave individual.

Are you getting the Pakistani community mixed up with the Muslim community?

"Actually we don't particularly care which community you're from, we believe that Schools should be allowed to teach this because it fits in with British values"

Does it really fit in with British values? Are you ho estly saying teaching kids about this stuff at anything but pre teen is a good idea, I for one don't and for once I'm siding with the muslim Community. I guess I'm just ultra Conservative.

[PorkRind]

Dog Star said:

I have serious objections to this sort of thing, not because I give a flying fk about LGBT blah blah rights etc, but quite simply because of the time wasted on it.

Do you think that kids in China or India are having their schooldays taken up with this kind of crap? I very much doubt it - I deeply suspect they're working themselves to the bone learning languages, maths, physics and all the other things that they need to know in order to make sure that they can work in a competitive global economy, not wasting hours being taught about whether a bloke in a dress can use the ladies bogs or not.

If folk want to have their kids educated about this then I personally think that it ought to be done as an optional after school activity, not wasting valuable teaching time. It's a big old dog eat dog world out there.

Being all right-on is all very well until you end up down the job centre signing on because the local factory has upped sticks to China or you've had your IT infrastructure moved to India because the staff are a bit cheaper but a lot better educated because they've not had their education wasted on this stuff.

Just my 2p, I don't have kids and if you're happy for your kids schooltime being wasted then knock yourself out.

Right on :thumbsup:

[PorkRind]

Andeh1 said:

The first I ever really noticed about this whole aspect of society was when a VERY openly 'Gender Fluid' chap in the office started a campaign to get a 'Gender Neutral' toilet set up in the office. No one paid much attention to it, but just got on with their business. A few months later one of the female toilets was announced with much fanfare that it was now gender neutral.... I still didn't pay it a huge amount of attention - it didn't effect me.

However - we had a team meeting, and a few of the women in the room brought it up, and put forwards a really eye opening counter argument to it. Their toilets are already 'busy' because women traditionally spend longer & have less usable facilities (no urinals....), and now they had effectively lost 20% of their toilets because one gender fluid chap & his campaign had opened up their toilet to men. They explained very respectively that this one chap' rights, beliefs & political correctness had penalised them and why should his views matter more then theirs. There was only ONE of him/gender fluid, vs several dozen women who now all had lost out to him.

No one really spoke up or did anything other then mutter general acceptance - but the situation REALLY stuck with me. I couldn't shake the feeling of how upset I would be had I lost out on a much needed facility to because one chap felt he deserved special attention.

Yup theres some Attention seeking freaks out there.

[Gooseberry]

Andeh1 said:

The first I ever really noticed about this whole aspect of society was when a VERY openly 'Gender Fluid' chap in the office started a campaign to get a 'Gender Neutral' toilet set up in the office. No one paid much attention to it, but just got on with their business. A few months later one of the female toilets was announced with much fanfare that it was now gender neutral.... I still didn't pay it a huge amount of attention - it didn't effect me.

However - we had a team meeting, and a few of the women in the room brought it up, and put forwards a really eye opening counter argument to it. Their toilets are already 'busy' because women traditionally spend longer & have less usable facilities (no urinals....), and now they had effectively lost 20% of their toilets because one gender fluid chap & his campaign had opened up their toilet to men. They explained very respectively that this one chap' rights, beliefs & political correctness had penalised them and why should his views matter more then theirs. There was only ONE of him/gender fluid, vs several dozen women who now all had lost out to him.

No one really spoke up or did anything other then mutter general acceptance - but the situation REALLY stuck with me. I couldn't shake the feeling of how upset I would be had I lost out on a much needed facility to because one chap felt he deserved special attention.

They could have just designated one of the male toilets gender neutral instead. As it had urinals there would probably be mainly men using it, but unless the chap just made his request because he specifically wanted to be in a toilet with women, he'd have no reason to complain.

[jimPH]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

"The office" for some people.

[NDA]

Davos123 said:

They could have solved this problem by making all toilets gender neutral. My office doesn't have urinals in the men's - always find it a bit silly we bother to have male and female toilets when it's just a room of closed cubicles.

I was having a discussion about this the other day with a friend who is a university lecturer.... he was all for gender neutral lavatories.

My view was that women (normally) would prefer a degree of privacy and not to have to share lavatories with men.

Perhaps I am just old fashioned?

[gregs656]

PorkRind said:

Does it really fit in with British values? Are you ho estly saying teaching kids about this stuff at anything but pre teen is a good idea, I for one don't and for once I'm siding with the muslim Community. I guess I'm just ultra Conservative.

Tolerance and respect for others, regardless of religious belief, race, sexuality, gender etc? I would say very much in line with British Values.

As far as I am aware primary school children are ‘pre teen’. The teens should probably be reminded too (as they are now), though with a more in-depth and explicit discussion.

What is the problem you have with teaching children that there will be children who are different to them, or maybe children who have 2 dads or 2 mums or perhaps a single parent and so on and those are just differences.

Or that maybe some children will pray and some don’t?

What is your concern?

[Countdown]

NDA said:

Davos123 said:

They could have solved this problem by making all toilets gender neutral. My office doesn't have urinals in the men's - always find it a bit silly we bother to have male and female toilets when it's just a room of closed cubicles.

I was having a discussion about this the other day with a friend who is a university lecturer.... he was all for gender neutral lavatories.

My view was that women (normally) would prefer a degree of privacy and not to have to share lavatories with men.

Perhaps I am just old fashioned?

Why would women value privacy more than men?

FWIW the gender-neutral toilets Ive experienced are basically self-contained toilets which include hand washing facilities. It means you can reduce the number of toilets in a building by half.

[Sa Calobra]

gregs656 said:

PorkRind said:

Does it really fit in with British values? Are you ho estly saying teaching kids about this stuff at anything but pre teen is a good idea, I for one don't and for once I'm siding with the muslim Community. I guess I'm just ultra Conservative.

Tolerance and respect for others, regardless of religious belief, race, sexuality, gender etc? I would say very much in line with British Values.

As far as I am aware primary school children are ‘pre teen’. The teens should probably be reminded too (as they are now), though with a more in-depth and explicit discussion.

What is the problem you have with teaching children that there will be children who are different to them, or maybe children who have 2 dads or 2 mums or perhaps a single parent and so on and those are just differences.

Or that maybe some children will pray and some don’t?

What is your concern?

Do you have small children who are under ten years old yourself?

[gregs656]

Sa Calobra said:

Do you have small children who are under ten years old yourself?

Do you think it makes my position on this less legitimate as I don’t?

If I said that I think the primary school curriculum should include, and not be limited to, teaching reading and writing, science, history, maths, English, basics like telling them time and so on I assume that opinion is not diminished by not having children?

Or did you need to have an infant before you thought ‘learning to read is important’?