The U.S.A. Mass Shootings Thread

[alabbasi]

[quote=Last Visit
One could also sumise that the robber must be in a pretty stty place (mentally,

[/quote]


Screw that, he's not a victim, he got shot while robbing people at gun point. He got what he deserved

[mac96]

Last Visit said:

mac96 said:

Petrus1983 said:

Digger said:

Last Visit said:

FourWheelDrift said:

Mass shooting in Houston, mass in that a man robbing a restaurant was shot 9 times by an armed customer in the restaurant. He killed the robber, gave back everyone's money and left before police arrived.

https://nypost.com/2023/01/07/customer-shoots-kill...

Attourney "Roe said it appears to be self defense"

This was after he had shot him 4 times in the back, then another 4 times as he lay on the ground and then one more for luck.

The Texan pro gun nutters will love that, good guy with gun takes down bad guy. Hence more guns for all.

Turns out the armed robber had a fake gun which the shooter realised reasonably quickly - this will be interesting to follow I'm afraid to say!

I’m going to come across as a) a dick, b) contradict myself. But it’s at times like this which is why I’ve felt my experience of Texas as safe. Obviously it’s sad that someone’s lost there life - but in a State where if you play silly games, you win silly prizes. I’m heading out on the 10th March for a few weeks - looking forwards to be back.

I don't think that makes you a dick at all. It is possible to simultaneously believe that tighter gun control would be a good idea, and have no sympathy for an armed robber who got what he deserved in a particular situation. And to make things more complicated, to also think that the shooter should not have shot him 9 times, or possibly at all if he was leaving and no threat.
Of course if the shooter knew the robber's gun was fake,that changes things again. But how can we know, unless he admits it? And why would he do that?

One could also sumise that the robber must be in a pretty stty place (mentally, circumstances) to be pulling a gun (albeit replica) in a public Texan restaurant given the prolific firearm ownership and chances of a tooled up MOP being present.

Not defending committing crime but some people are in desperate circumstances.

No argument with that, being a hold up merchant with a replica might seem a good idea in the UK, but it seems madness in Texas. Desperate, or stupid. Probably deserving of sympathy before he embarked on his career of crime, whether that was recently or otherwise.

[captain_cynic]

Last Visit said:

mac96 said:

Petrus1983 said:

Digger said:

Last Visit said:

FourWheelDrift said:

Mass shooting in Houston, mass in that a man robbing a restaurant was shot 9 times by an armed customer in the restaurant. He killed the robber, gave back everyone's money and left before police arrived.

https://nypost.com/2023/01/07/customer-shoots-kill...

Attourney "Roe said it appears to be self defense"

This was after he had shot him 4 times in the back, then another 4 times as he lay on the ground and then one more for luck.

The Texan pro gun nutters will love that, good guy with gun takes down bad guy. Hence more guns for all.

Turns out the armed robber had a fake gun which the shooter realised reasonably quickly - this will be interesting to follow I'm afraid to say!

I’m going to come across as a) a dick, b) contradict myself. But it’s at times like this which is why I’ve felt my experience of Texas as safe. Obviously it’s sad that someone’s lost there life - but in a State where if you play silly games, you win silly prizes. I’m heading out on the 10th March for a few weeks - looking forwards to be back.

I don't think that makes you a dick at all. It is possible to simultaneously believe that tighter gun control would be a good idea, and have no sympathy for an armed robber who got what he deserved in a particular situation. And to make things more complicated, to also think that the shooter should not have shot him 9 times, or possibly at all if he was leaving and no threat.
Of course if the shooter knew the robber's gun was fake,that changes things again. But how can we know, unless he admits it? And why would he do that?

One could also sumise that the robber must be in a pretty stty place (mentally, circumstances) to be pulling a gun (albeit replica) in a public Texan restaurant given the prolific firearm ownership and chances of a tooled up MOP being present.

Not defending committing crime but some people are in desperate circumstances.

Mentally, no. Financially, yes, in a very bad place indeed that robbery seems like a good idea.

The reason that places like Texas seem safe to some is that they don't go to the areas that have appalling poverty. In a situation where a lot of people are in poverty or income equality is so stark, it's not mental illness that drives people to crime but simple desperation.

Even in a place like Medellín, Colombia, there are places like Poblado, Mile de Oro, Lorales, that seem perfectly safe, even Parque Lleras seems fine to get blotto in and walk around. However go to Centro after dark and it's a different world. I suspect we'll find a lot of placed in the US to be similar.

[J4CKO]

Anyone else think, with certain gun owners it seems less about dealing with a situation, and more like they are after a chance to be a hero, or just some justification to have an opportunity blow someone brains out ?

Not saying in this case that was the motivation, as the guy was waving a gun round in a restaurant which kind of merits a response, but saw one where there was some neighbour kind of dispute and a guy got shot dead, that did not need lethal force.

[fatbutt]

We left the US (Houston, Texas) for a number of reasons but top of my list was that the school our (then) 4 year old son was due to start at had the teachers open carry firearms. I'd had enough of it at that point and moved us all to the UK.

Most people here don't see all the 'active shooter' procedures they have over there. Most schools have regular drills. A lot of the companies I worked with had active shooter presentations running on a loop in the lobby. Texas, or any of the southern states, simply aren't safe if you apply typical UK standards.

If you want to fry your mind, look up the 'stand your ground' laws in Texas. Basically, if you feel threatened in any way you can blow someone away with no repercussions. And it happens a lot.

https://efsgv.org/state/texas/

Almost 3700 gun deaths in Texas alone in 2019. That's a small war, every year, and its only trending upwards.

[Halmyre]

Friend of mine regularly travelled to and from Houston with his job. He said Texans were nice people but don't for any sake start talking politics, and gun laws in particular. He mentioned to one Texan about a terrible incident when someone knocked on a door to ask for directions and got shot for his pains.

"Nothing terrible about it, he was trespassing".
"Would you shoot someone just for walking up your garden path?"
"Yep, if he's got no right to be there, he shouldn't be on my land"

Another time he was visiting a friend in an apartment block. Not sure of the number he knocked on a door and was shouted at to go away. He started to explain he was looking for so-and-so, and then so-and-so opened his door and dragged him inside - "you're lucky you didn't get shot".

[alabbasi]

People knock on my door all the time. Either selling cable, or religion or trying to get me to vote for someone. The ones that have good etiquette knock and step back 6-10ft, then leave if the door isn't answered.

There's nothing concerning about this. Not compared to England where homes are broken into while the occupants are in the house asleep.

[HM-2]

alabbasi said:

Not compared to England where homes are broken into while the occupants are in the house asleep.

Ridiculous red herring is ridiculous.
Are you saying that this doesn't happen in the US

[J4CKO]

Halmyre said:

Friend of mine regularly travelled to and from Houston with his job. He said Texans were nice people but don't for any sake start talking politics, and gun laws in particular. He mentioned to one Texan about a terrible incident when someone knocked on a door to ask for directions and got shot for his pains.

"Nothing terrible about it, he was trespassing".
"Would you shoot someone just for walking up your garden path?"
"Yep, if he's got no right to be there, he shouldn't be on my land"

Another time he was visiting a friend in an apartment block. Not sure of the number he knocked on a door and was shouted at to go away. He started to explain he was looking for so-and-so, and then so-and-so opened his door and dragged him inside - "you're lucky you didn't get shot".

I have a few levels when it comes to anyone walking up my path before I feel the need to kill them.

Its weird assuming that everyone is out to rob or injure you, always a consideration but killing someone asking for directions is just weird, its a more likely scenario that its something innocuous rather than sinister.

Suppose that's part of the reason why there are so many gun deaths.

I personally have a couple of "Tickling Sticks" around the house, just in case I need a weapon, obviously one would like to "Dominate the stairs", but have never needed one, never mind a loaded gun.

US has really got itself in a terrible situation wrt firearms.

[AW111]

HM-2 said:

alabbasi said:

Not compared to England where homes are broken into while the occupants are in the house asleep.

Ridiculous red herring is ridiculous.
Are you saying that this doesn't happen in the US

Given that a large number of Americans claim to have guns to protect themselves from home invasion, alabnasi's claim is dubious to say the least.

It's a nation of scared little people.

[Randy Winkman]

HM-2 said:

alabbasi said:

Not compared to England where homes are broken into while the occupants are in the house asleep.

Ridiculous red herring is ridiculous.
Are you saying that this doesn't happen in the US

Or that it's particularly common in the UK? I live on the edge of SE London in a fairly middle class but by no means posh suburban area and literally never hear of stuff like that going on near me. Nor do I hear about about the stabbings I'm always being told happen all the time by the PH "London is sh*thole, I'd not live there if you paid me" crowd.

[alabbasi]

HM-2 said:

Ridiculous red herring is ridiculous.
Are you saying that this doesn't happen in the US

You can never say never but I certainly have never heard of an incident happening on any occasion while living in Texas or Georgia these past 22 years. Houses are broken into, usually in the mid morning or afternoon when the burglars know that nobody is in the house.

Randy Winkman said:

Nor do I hear about about the stabbings I'm always being told happen all the time by the PH "London is sh*thole, I'd not live there if you paid me" crowd.

You don't hear about stabbings in London...never?

Edited by alabbasi on Monday 9th January 14:41

[Randy Winkman]

alabbasi said:

HM-2 said:

Ridiculous red herring is ridiculous.
Are you saying that this doesn't happen in the US

You can never say never but I certainly have never heard of an incident happening on any occasion while living in Texas or Georgia these past 22 years. Houses are broken into, usually in the mid morning or afternoon when the burglars know that nobody is in the house.

Randy Winkman said:

Nor do I hear about about the stabbings I'm always being told happen all the time by the PH "London is sh*thole, I'd not live there if you paid me" crowd.

You don't hear about stabbings in London...never?

Edited by alabbasi on Monday 9th January 14:41

Not where I live in any way that would put anyone off living here. Slightly off topic but I'm just responding to the "London is a terrible place" posts in another thread. London has 9 million people in it and the idea that we all need to live in fear of being stabbed is silly. But back on topic, I spend literally no part of my life concerned that not having a gun means that someone is going to rob my house while I'm asleep.

[Hilts]

Halmyre said:

He mentioned to one Texan about a terrible incident when someone knocked on a door to ask for directions and got shot for his pains.

Not sure if he was referring to the incident I'm thinking of but that actually happened to a guy from Aberdeen o a business trip in the 90s.

Shot a few times through the door and killed by the homeowner in Houston.

[alabbasi]

Randy Winkman said:

Not where I live in any way that would put anyone off living here. Slightly off topic but I'm just responding to the "London is a terrible place" posts in another thread. London has 9 million people in it and the idea that we all need to live in fear of being stabbed is silly. But back on topic, I spend literally no part of my life concerned that not having a gun means that someone is going to rob my house while I'm asleep.

If you choose to ignore it, it's your choice. If you're saying that you don't hear about it, you're ignorant. Just because it hasn't happened to you, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. You might not be the target. My 90 year old father would be and has been.

[J4CKO]

alabbasi said:

HM-2 said:

Ridiculous red herring is ridiculous.
Are you saying that this doesn't happen in the US

You can never say never but I certainly have never heard of an incident happening on any occasion while living in Texas or Georgia these past 22 years. Houses are broken into, usually in the mid morning or afternoon when the burglars know that nobody is in the house.

Randy Winkman said:

Nor do I hear about about the stabbings I'm always being told happen all the time by the PH "London is sh*thole, I'd not live there if you paid me" crowd.

You don't hear about stabbings in London...never?

Edited by alabbasi on Monday 9th January 14:41

Thing is, the US manages to have more knife crime, despite the stellar efforts made every day in London.

https://www.euronews.com/2018/05/05/trump-s-knife-...

Thats on top of the gun deaths, oh and you are four to five times more likely to die on the roads as well. Chap I worked with from Australia moved to the US and lasted two weeks before getting mown down when on his bike, by a neighbour of his.

US is a fairly dangerous place to live really, compared to the UK, which isnt perfect by any means.


Was amazed with the latest school shooting, only one injury the teacher, but then the shooter was only six and easily distracted with some cartoons and a Fruit Shoot.

[Randy Winkman]

alabbasi said:

Randy Winkman said:

Not where I live in any way that would put anyone off living here. Slightly off topic but I'm just responding to the "London is a terrible place" posts in another thread. London has 9 million people in it and the idea that we all need to live in fear of being stabbed is silly. But back on topic, I spend literally no part of my life concerned that not having a gun means that someone is going to rob my house while I'm asleep.

If you choose to ignore it, it's your choice. If you're saying that you don't hear about it, you're ignorant. Just because it hasn't happened to you, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. You might not be the target. My 90 year old father would be and has been.

I'm responding to the "I don't want to live there because" statements. Not living anywhere in London because you might get stabbed doesn't make any sense to me. Same way I don't worry about not having a gun to fend off midnight burglars. I might get struck by lighting but I don't let that affect me either. Edited to add that I hope your father got over the issue you referred to.

Edited by Randy Winkman on Monday 9th January 15:26

[Composer62]

Hilts said:

Halmyre said:

He mentioned to one Texan about a terrible incident when someone knocked on a door to ask for directions and got shot for his pains.

Not sure if he was referring to the incident I'm thinking of but that actually happened to a guy from Aberdeen o a business trip in the 90s.

Shot a few times through the door and killed by the homeowner in Houston.

Yes indeed. I remember that incident well.

[HM-2]

alabbasi said:

You can never say never but I certainly have never heard of an incident happening on any occasion while living in Texas or Georgia these past 22 years.

According to the US Department of Justice, 66% of all burglaries in the US (some 1.65 million of circa 2.5 million total) are home invasions (IE take place when the occupants are home).

What you've "heard" is nice and all but it's no substitute for actual statistical data.

Edited by HM-2 on Monday 9th January 15:45

[wombat172a]

Sorry, this can't be missed

alabbasi said:

HM-2 said:

Ridiculous red herring is ridiculous.
Are you saying that this doesn't happen in the US

You can never say never but I certainly have never heard of an incident happening on any occasion while living in Texas or Georgia these past 22 years. Houses are broken into, usually in the mid morning or afternoon when the burglars know that nobody is in the house.

Edited by alabbasi on Monday 9th January 14:41

alabbasi said:

If you choose to ignore it, it's your choice. If you're saying that you don't hear about it, you're ignorant. Just because it hasn't happened to you, it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. You might not be the target.