Brexit Poll 1/2/16
Poll: Brexit Poll 1/2/16
Total Members Polled: 1470
Discussion
Vincefox said:
Is anyone voting based on issues other than the potential financial implications?
It seems to me that the vast majority of in voters are voting solely on the basis of perceived/rumoured financial implications. For many of them (eg. those worried about passporting) it's simply self-interest, whereas others are frightened by the prospect of their bricks and mortar losing value (forgetting about the opportunity that presents to people who want to buy their first home). Then of course there are the "leaders" of the in campaign who are looking towards their retirement and a nice little earner in Brussels. And there will doubtless be those who cannot see beyond reduced roaming charges, or are senselessly worried about losing their apartment in Tuscany or on the costa del somewhere-or-other.PRTVR said:
Mario149 said:
Vincefox said:
Is anyone voting based on issues other than the potential financial implications?
Financial is a small part of how I'm choosing to vote. But I'm fundamentally in favour of a whole load of countries banding together with common aims. Europe has come *so* far in the last 70 years, and I'm actually quite proud of what has been achieved given the chaos at the end of the last war and the fact that we've been part of it. So apart from anything else, us throwing our teddies out of the pram and storming off in a huff just because migrants are suddenly high on the agenda, people aren't quite sure how the European parliament works and someone is saying we might be able to trade more outside but can't prove it, seems a bit of a waste.It must also be understood we are not alone in this. The Dutch for example are watching our referendum closely as well.
I'm voting out, simple as that. It's not immigration it's the whole Federal integrated 'experiment' that infringes more and more on out daily life and especially on business.
Free market yes. Unaccountability and rules and regulation from faceless EU Policy makers no.
Vincefox said:
Is anyone voting based on issues other than the potential financial implications?
The financial implications for the UK don't count at all in my decision. Whatever happens the UK will do just fine financially.What matters to me is the democratic deficit present in the EU and the effect this is going to have to the stability of Europe long term.
The Euro effect is a separate issue, but is having a major impact on the southern states and their political stability long term, thankfully we are not embroiled in that particular mess, but if the current trajectory continues then there will be more unrest and youth unemployment which may impact on us in terms of an increase in pressure of migration. We could cope with that, even if it results in a lowering of our standard of living, but I'm not sure the rest of Europe can.
The whole concept of free movement is anti EU growth, the developing countries are losing their bright and energetic youth to the currently advanced economies, this is only going to increase the disparity between the rich and poor countries, which is going to fuel more anti democratic movements and reduce the potential for these countries to thrive. That always ends with violence or draconian regimes which increases instability.
I'll be voting to leave as its the best thing for the European continent as a whole, if this EU experiment continues on its current course its only going to end in misery for the majority of normal people on the continent. I think it will be better for the UK, but either way its not a game changer, it may well be a game changer for the rest of Europe though, if its the start of the end of this absurd socialist project.
Just scanning through the last couple of pages here seems to back up the kind of attitude I've seen in real life too - that is brexit voters being painted as ignorant, thick, racists, uneducated and so on.
I wonder if as a result of this if there may be a shy Brexit vote out there? I mean if you are university educated, perhaps a bit middle class and thinking of voting out is it something you would really feel comfortable discussing with your peer group given the current attitude towards Brexit voters.
I am certainly reluctant to tell people in real life that I intend to vote leave.
I wonder if as a result of this if there may be a shy Brexit vote out there? I mean if you are university educated, perhaps a bit middle class and thinking of voting out is it something you would really feel comfortable discussing with your peer group given the current attitude towards Brexit voters.
I am certainly reluctant to tell people in real life that I intend to vote leave.
VolvoT5 said:
Just scanning through the last couple of pages here seems to back up the kind of attitude I've seen in real life too - that is brexit voters being painted as ignorant, thick, racists, uneducated and so on.
I wonder if as a result of this if there may be a shy Brexit vote out there? I mean if you are university educated, perhaps a bit middle class and thinking of voting out is it something you would really feel comfortable discussing with your peer group given the current attitude towards Brexit voters.
I am certainly reluctant to tell people in real life that I intend to vote leave.
This, exactly this.I wonder if as a result of this if there may be a shy Brexit vote out there? I mean if you are university educated, perhaps a bit middle class and thinking of voting out is it something you would really feel comfortable discussing with your peer group given the current attitude towards Brexit voters.
I am certainly reluctant to tell people in real life that I intend to vote leave.
It's like voting tory in a GE, not something you're allowed to admit to in public i'm afraid. Will be interesting to see if the silent majority exercise their right once again in a few weeks.
If the eu was democratic, our taxes (membership costs) would be openly debated and those seeking our money would have to be seen to earn it.
It's frustrating that our taxes are given to the poorer states without any perceptible value to our contributions.
If Greece, Cyprus, et al (net recipient nations) were actively canvassing for support with the British public I'd feel more inclined to support. However our money is taxed, considered and donated without any rational to the public. This is wrong.
I believe a democratic eu would encourage those who need to fight for what they want and demonstrate to the donors they are competent and trustworthy. Today we have a situation where a beaurocracy has decided based on some made up calculation we must give x amount to y country. All this does is breed entitlement.
Why should the working man try if their salary is guaranteed?
It's frustrating that our taxes are given to the poorer states without any perceptible value to our contributions.
If Greece, Cyprus, et al (net recipient nations) were actively canvassing for support with the British public I'd feel more inclined to support. However our money is taxed, considered and donated without any rational to the public. This is wrong.
I believe a democratic eu would encourage those who need to fight for what they want and demonstrate to the donors they are competent and trustworthy. Today we have a situation where a beaurocracy has decided based on some made up calculation we must give x amount to y country. All this does is breed entitlement.
Why should the working man try if their salary is guaranteed?
I am a graduate who is in the process of starting my own business, I have worked in various countries around the world, including several in the EU, I love all things Italian and want a holiday home there as soon as I can afford it but I am voting to leave.
Immigration is not a big concern for me as I think it can be a good thing but I would like to have more control over who and how many we let in. I would like people from all countries to have an equal right to settle here and have a points based system so that we could, for example, allow an engineer from India in rather than somebody from the EU with no useful skills, at the moment we cannot do this.
With regard to the economy, we are the 5th largest economy in the world, I do not see any reason that we have to be part of the EU to succeed (plenty of countries in the world do fine not being in the EU), I do think that there would be initial economic issues but long term I think we could be better off.
Our current situation is like being tied to an enormous ship which is heading for rocks, there are lots of different captains, none of them can agree what to do and the steering is broken. We have a chance to cut the rope and chart our own course but it seems that a lot of people do not have the courage to wield the axe.
People say that staying in the EU is the safe option but I see no evidence of this because the EU we are in now is a mess and getting worse, we have no idea of what it will be like in 10, 20 or 50 years.
Immigration is not a big concern for me as I think it can be a good thing but I would like to have more control over who and how many we let in. I would like people from all countries to have an equal right to settle here and have a points based system so that we could, for example, allow an engineer from India in rather than somebody from the EU with no useful skills, at the moment we cannot do this.
With regard to the economy, we are the 5th largest economy in the world, I do not see any reason that we have to be part of the EU to succeed (plenty of countries in the world do fine not being in the EU), I do think that there would be initial economic issues but long term I think we could be better off.
Our current situation is like being tied to an enormous ship which is heading for rocks, there are lots of different captains, none of them can agree what to do and the steering is broken. We have a chance to cut the rope and chart our own course but it seems that a lot of people do not have the courage to wield the axe.
People say that staying in the EU is the safe option but I see no evidence of this because the EU we are in now is a mess and getting worse, we have no idea of what it will be like in 10, 20 or 50 years.
gothatway said:
It seems to me that the vast majority of in voters are voting solely on the basis of perceived/rumoured financial implications.
But can you blame them when there is no clear, fixed vision of what we would get when in terms trade if we left? It would be one thing if our business within the EU was dropping off a cliff as we speak, but it's not. So Leave are asking people to take a punt which is fine, but when no-one knows what the odds are, it's quite a big "ask".Pooh said:
Immigration is not a big concern for me as I think it can be a good thing but I would like to have more control over who and how many we let in. I would like people from all countries to have an equal right to settle here and have a points based system so that we could, for example, allow an engineer from India in rather than somebody from the EU with no useful skills, at the moment we cannot do this.
You can have a points based system to let non-EU people in to the UK, we just choose not to. And any EU citizen coming here to work who does not find work within 3 months can be chucked out. Again, we just choose not to enforce it which is an issue of our gov not the EU.Mario149 said:
gothatway said:
It seems to me that the vast majority of in voters are voting solely on the basis of perceived/rumoured financial implications.
But can you blame them when there is no clear, fixed vision of what we would get when in terms trade if we left? It would be one thing if our business within the EU was dropping off a cliff as we speak, but it's not. So Leave are asking people to take a punt which is fine, but when no-one knows what the odds are, it's quite a big "ask".Personally, I perceive that the EU is sinking and do not want to be dragged down with it, while I have confidence that the UK can not only survive but thrive on the bigger stage.
Mario149 said:
And any EU citizen coming here to work who does not find work within 3 months can be chucked out. Again, we just choose not to enforce it which is an issue of our gov not the EU.
That's absolute rubbish. It's near impossible to enforce because it is relatively easy to prove you are looking for a job and currently studying part-time. As for non-EU how difficult do you think it is to get a dodgy EU passport from any of the other EU countries? Immigration is third down the list for me on the reasons to Brexit but I can't see how it can be enforced properly unless we leave the Single Market.Mario149 said:
Pooh said:
Immigration is not a big concern for me as I think it can be a good thing but I would like to have more control over who and how many we let in. I would like people from all countries to have an equal right to settle here and have a points based system so that we could, for example, allow an engineer from India in rather than somebody from the EU with no useful skills, at the moment we cannot do this.
You can have a points based system to let non-EU people in to the UK, we just choose not to. And any EU citizen coming here to work who does not find work within 3 months can be chucked out. Again, we just choose not to enforce it which is an issue of our gov not the EU.We have no government, we have spineless bureaucrats only looking out for themselves.
Pooh said:
Our current situation is like being tied to an enormous ship which is heading for rocks, there are lots of different captains, none of them can agree what to do and the steering is broken. We have a chance to cut the rope and chart our own course but it seems that a lot of people do not have the courage to wield the axe.
Remainers would stay on the Titanic because the lifeboats hadn't been sea tested.CaptainSlow said:
Pooh said:
Our current situation is like being tied to an enormous ship which is heading for rocks, there are lots of different captains, none of them can agree what to do and the steering is broken. We have a chance to cut the rope and chart our own course but it seems that a lot of people do not have the courage to wield the axe.
Remainers would stay on the Titanic because the lifeboats hadn't been sea tested.
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