PC censorship vs debate and free speech, worrying trends.

[rscott]

Not-The-Messiah said:

Talking about YouTube quite a stark and fair film on Charlottesville I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTJDPorywkY

Defiantly lots of idiots being idiots. It reminds me of football hooligans, they say they are going to watch a football match but really going looking for a fight. Both sides arrange a time and a place and get stuck in, but just like football hooliganism innocent people get caught up in it.

From that video yes I would say the vast amount of blame lies with the far right but it looks like an almost complete failure with regards to policing.

I fully support the right to protest and free speech within the law, but the right to turn up to these events all tooled and masked up is beyond me.

Interesting to note that the fully armed assault rifle lot claimed to have no affiliation to far right groups and seeing that they where having pictures taken with black kids sort of shows this.

Thanks for that - was a pretty balanced report.

I wonder if the events of Charlottesville might affect the turnout at future events.
The body armour and assault rifle brigade may well decide to stay away from similar events to avoid being lumped in with the alt right groups (the flag waving, saluting mobs).
Now if the violent extreme left AntiFa could just bugger off as well, that would help. They're a relatively small part of the protests (or at least seemed to be in Charlottesville & Boston) but their actions mean the far less extreme views of the bulk of the protestors get ignored.

[Spanna]

Sam Harris and Douglas Murray had an interesting podcast talking over all the Charlottesville stuff and much more:

https://youtu.be/Yix4uE06Yjs

Politics is extremely polarising right now, left v right, Islam, all different activist types, oppression and victim status is being used like a currency. And all this gets a lot of attention and the sane look on in disbelief, while political candidates pander to these different sections looking for votes and popularity.

I think popularity right now would come right down the middle with solid reasoned talking and no virtue signalling, identity politics or Islam bashing. Voting at the minute seems to consist of making sure the bad guy doesn't get in depending on where your political stances sit.

[mickmcpaddy]

Another loony lefty wanting free speech so they can tell someone to shut up

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4813870/MP...

[anonymous-user]

Not the links ffs!!

[Eric Mc]

Rovinghawk said:

If Hitler had died in a car crash in eg 1937 he'd probably be hailed today as one of the world's great leaders.

Nothing is entirely right or wrong. I give you Bob Geldoff & Live Aid- BG had the best of motives but exacerbated a catastrophe. Is he right or wrong in what he did? Hitler brought a crippled Germany back to a position of power before the wheels fell off. Is he totally wrong or did he do some good?

You'd probably wish to deny me the freedom of speech for my comments.

None of the economic gains made by Germany in the 1930s were sustainable WITHOUT a war. War was always part of the plan. Indeed, the war was started sooner than the military really wanted it to start because of impending economic collapse.

[Murph7355]

Eric Mc said:

Rovinghawk said:

If Hitler had died in a car crash in eg 1937 he'd probably be hailed today as one of the world's great leaders.

Nothing is entirely right or wrong. I give you Bob Geldoff & Live Aid- BG had the best of motives but exacerbated a catastrophe. Is he right or wrong in what he did? Hitler brought a crippled Germany back to a position of power before the wheels fell off. Is he totally wrong or did he do some good?

You'd probably wish to deny me the freedom of speech for my comments.

None of the economic gains made by Germany in the 1930s were sustainable WITHOUT a war. War was always part of the plan. Indeed, the war was started sooner than the military really wanted it to start because of impending economic collapse.

And for completeness, Bob Geldof was entirely wrong too

[AW111]

Bacon Is Proof said:

He did indeed, though I am surprised he doesn't conclude that fascism is bad, or wrong.

It's ok for example, to conclude that Nazis are bad or wrong, even if they did have the snazziest uniforms.

Mitchell and Webb springs to mind :
Are we the bad guys?

[Bacon Is Proof]

Rovinghawk said:

If Hitler had died in a car crash in eg 1937 he'd probably be hailed today as one of the world's great leaders.

Not by people with an understanding of history.

Rovinghawk said:

Nothing is entirely right or wrong. I give you Bob Geldoff & Live Aid- BG had the best of motives but exacerbated a catastrophe. Is he right or wrong in what he did? Hitler brought a crippled Germany back to a position of power before the wheels fell off. Is he totally wrong or did he do some good?

Strawman argument.
I'm surprised you missed the part of my post giving an example of something not being entirely right or wrong, especially as you quoted it directly before erecting this strawman.

Rovinghawk said:

You'd probably wish to deny me the freedom of speech for my comments.

ATG has already pulled you up for repeating this convenient untruth.
I have already stated my opinion of where the limits of free speech should lie, and you have then agreed with me, even if you haven't noticed.

The only thing you're pointlessly arguing about is my ability to judge good and bad with greater ease than yourself.

It is a surprise, given that you purport to champion free speech so strongly, that you do not conclude that an ideology that seeks to curtail free speech, is wrong.
I'm sure people can draw their own conclusions from that fact.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to think that fascism is good, just that most normal people don't.

You've concentrated so hard on one word of my original post that you have spectacularly missed the point of it.

[Bacon Is Proof]

Mr2Mike said:

As I say opinions are fine. Telling people what their default positions must be on ideologies you don't like is not fine.

Good job I didn't say that then, isn't it Mike?

[Colonial]

Not-The-Messiah said:

So you get all your information from left wing main stream corporate media then? For all its faults and lots and lots crap on there it is in my opinion the most unbiased outlet for what actually happened at certain events much of which is just raw unedited footage. Unlike MSM footage of events which is usually heavily edited and filtered.

I would love more people to investigate and search for information themselves rather than just trust what they see on the TV and in the papers.

Did Alex Jones tell you to think that?

[Funkycoldribena]

Colonial said:

Did Alex Jones tell you to think that?

Did Owen Jones tell you to reply?

[Colonial]

Funkycoldribena said:

Did Owen Jones tell you to reply?

Haven't you flounced from this thread yet?

It's full of people who have a different opinion, which past experience has shown you really can't stand.

[Funkycoldribena]

Colonial said:

Haven't you flounced from this thread yet?

It's full of people who have a different opinion, which past experience has shown you really can't stand.

You'd do well to take your own advice.
What thread have I flounced from?

[markcoznottz]

mickmcpaddy said:

Another loony lefty wanting free speech so they can tell someone to shut up

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4813870/MP...

Astonishing. They are so on board with multicultural diversity that nothing, and that includes the rule of law, will stop them.

[Not-The-Messiah]

Colonial said:

Not-The-Messiah said:

So you get all your information from left wing main stream corporate media then? For all its faults and lots and lots crap on there it is in my opinion the most unbiased outlet for what actually happened at certain events much of which is just raw unedited footage. Unlike MSM footage of events which is usually heavily edited and filtered.

I would love more people to investigate and search for information themselves rather than just trust what they see on the TV and in the papers.

Did Alex Jones tell you to think that?

Don't tend to watch the One Show that often.

[dudleybloke]

markcoznottz said:

mickmcpaddy said:

Another loony lefty wanting free speech so they can tell someone to shut up

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4813870/MP...

Astonishing. They are so on board with multicultural diversity that nothing, and that includes the rule of law, will stop them.

In a normal society a statement like that should end her career.
The evil .
May she get bumraped by 1000 aids infected beggars.
(A diverse 1000 beggars)

[Boydie88]

Colonial said:

Haven't you flounced from this thread yet?

It's full of people who have a different opinion, which past experience has shown you really can't stand.

Observing you rage inside your echo chamber is one of the highlights of NPE.

[XslaneyX]

Jonesy23 said:

Well half of it is Eric so not as many people as you'd think.

I think most people see that thread as the definition of a circle jerk given the lack of opposing voices, which isn't exactly down to everyone agreeing with the content.

Don't venture in there anymore either. It's literally a "who can mock trump the hardest" kind of like all the Hollywood "celebs" do now as it's cool and fits the trendy narrative. You know, the ones who say no wall yet live behind one. People shouldn't be afraid, yet have security detail. The ones who screeched that they would move to Canada if Trump won yet are still living in the states.

Have they moved on from the Trump Russia nonsense to z0mg he's racist! yet?

[Boydie88]

XslaneyX said:

Jonesy23 said:

Well half of it is Eric so not as many people as you'd think.

I think most people see that thread as the definition of a circle jerk given the lack of opposing voices, which isn't exactly down to everyone agreeing with the content.

Don't venture in there anymore either. It's literally a "who can mock trump the hardest" kind of like all the Hollywood "celebs" do now as it's cool and fits the trendy narrative. You know, the ones who say no wall yet live behind one. People shouldn't be afraid, yet have security detail. The ones who screeched that they would move to Canada if Trump won yet are still living in the states.

Have they moved on from the Trump Russia nonsense to z0mg he's racist! yet?

Funnily enough, virtually no mention of Russia.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih_crCAA3M8&fe...

"Only because, we're on the racism thing, now"

[Mothersruin]

[img]https://i.stack.imgur.com/NTsOF.jpg[.img]