How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 10)

[Robertj21a]

gooner1 said:

It's disappointing that a Party has had to be formed because those entrusted to
carry out the result of a fair and legal Referendum have been incapeable, dishonest,
gutless etc, etc of doing so. TBP is the love child of their incesteous ,
conniving fkery.

+1

[Elysium]

christian-ohtc3 said:

Elysium said:

The allegations were only confirmed today. A little bit early for you to confirm it’s all ok.

It doesn’t matter what the EU do about it. It was clearly inappropriate for Farage to accept these payments, particularly as they were not declared. As I said before, it stinks.

I thought the news reports said he had not directly recieved any payments, Banks was paying directly for his rent, car and driver etc and would not know how much it all was costing.

Do you have a some information that proves he accepted payments?

Why do you think it makes a difference if these payments were in cash or as benefits in kind?

Would you not feel slightly uncomfortable if a kindly friend offered to pay for you to live at a posh london house and provide you with a car and driver?

Are you trying to tell me that Farage would not wonder what Banks might want in return or consider if that was compatible with him continuing to be paid as a serving MEP?

Fine upstanding chap eh?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nig...

[Squiddly Diddly]

gooner1 said:

Most did, but it appears to have run out.
As for the Euro elections, you don't consider that vote ,result dependent,
that would just be a stepping stone? You talk of patience yet want to play the short game.

I could understand the purpose of voting for Farage if we weren't in the process of leaving, but we are.

The EU election is a waste of time and money, and not a stepping stone to anything.

[gooner1]

Robertj21a said:

DeepEnd said:

I think the point you make about moderates is valid and is why the 37% observation is relevant.

Only extremists push for WTO and no deal - most moderates will remember that it was all promised to be easy, with great deals - even Farage used to talk about Norway etc. Many in the middle can see its now been a mess all along - and note just because of the negotiations. Would they still vote leave now the false promises are exposed?

You are right there has not been a big shift, but perhaps easily enough to reverse the mis informed vote (both sides) from 2016.

As above it is very sad to read about monsters being released and a majority in UK supporting policies from Le Penn etc. I don’t think a majority in the UK do at all - the UK is definitely better than sinking to Penn/BNP type politics.

I had an uber this week and the driver was Pakistani, lived in UK 20 years and voted leave. Nice guy very chatty- Why I asked? Keeping our money for the NHS. He now massively regretted it and wanted a vote to remain. How many like him can now so easily see through the false promises and reality? He was clearly one of the moderates you refer to.

You're not the missing toppstuff are you ? - he often referred to people who had changed their mind (always from Leave to Remain.....) after he'd interrogated them in taxis, workplaces, Argentina etc etc...

H,mmmm. IIRC Stufftops also proclaimed to have met at least one Leaver that had changed
their minds, on his daily worldwide escapades.

[Troubleatmill]

bhstewie said:

.....I think Tony summed it up, most people who will vote for him simply don't care what he says or does because he'll give them what they want.......

BINGO!

I don't care if Farage runs around the countryside naked with a feather duster up his arse, as long as Brexit gets delivered.

[gooner1]

Squiddly Diddly said:

I could understand the purpose of voting for Farage if we weren't in the process of leaving, but we are.

The EU election is a waste of time and money, and not a stepping stone to anything.

But we have to take part, it's your EU rules.

[FiF]

Robertj21a said:

gooner1 said:

It's disappointing that a Party has had to be formed because those entrusted to
carry out the result of a fair and legal Referendum have been incapeable, dishonest,
gutless etc, etc of doing so. TBP is the love child of their incesteous ,
conniving fkery.

+1

As his Nigelness keeps reminding folks, it's not just about Brexit any longer, that's the point.

He and TBP are not the answer, the EU2019 election on Thursday isn't an answer, they are simply currently empty vehicles for a howl at the moon for want of a better phrase, however if that howl is once again ignored, then folks may regret where it goes. The current 'establishment' are scared of where it could go, you can smell it, the same smell that was around in 2014/15, when they thought the air had been cleared by promising a referendum where the result would be honoured.

Unfortunately the adage fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, fool me three times, better bloody watch out pal, could come home to roost , and revenge is best served cold, which is not by parading round with silly hats on last night of the Proms and posting 25th hand memes on Twitter.

[DeepEnd]

Elysium said:

Why do you think it makes a difference if these payments were in cash or as benefits in kind?

Would you not feel slightly uncomfortable if a kindly friend offered to pay for you to live at a posh london house and provide you with a car and driver?

Are you trying to tell me that Farage would not wonder what Banks might want in return or consider if that was compatible with him continuing to be paid as a serving MEP?

Fine upstanding chap eh?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nig...

It is very suspect to have such a huge income and not declare it. It is potentially a massive breach.

The issue for the EU is whether they investigate now or after he gets elected to be a TBP MEP for another 5 years. If they play it right they can dismiss him pretty much as soon as he is elected.

It’s a lot worse than using the company Ford Galaxy on weekends.

[Squiddly Diddly]

gooner1 said:

But we have to take part, it's your EU rules.

I appreciate that we have to because we haven't left yet. That doesn't change my point though.

[bitchstewie]

DeepEnd said:

It is very suspect to have such a huge income and not declare it. It is potentially a massive breach.

The issue for the EU is whether they investigate now or after he gets elected to be a TBP MEP for another 5 years. If they play it right they can dismiss him pretty much as soon as he is elected.

It’s a lot worse than using the company Ford Galaxy on weekends.

It looks like they will be investigating.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nig...

[DeepEnd]

So that’s Alf?, Tuna and now Robert claiming I’m another poster - Topstuff?

I’m not.

Is that a thing here? Do I sound similar?

[Garvin]

DeepEnd said:

It is very suspect to have such a huge income and not declare it. It is potentially a massive breach.

The issue for the EU is whether they investigate now or after he gets elected to be a TBP MEP for another 5 years. If they play it right they can dismiss him pretty much as soon as he is elected.

It’s a lot worse than using the company Ford Galaxy on weekends.

Dismiss him? Really? I think you need to check the rules on which you are relying and the ‘punishments’ available. I fear they may be a disappointment to you!

[DeepEnd]

Garvin said:

Dismiss him? Really? I think you need to check the rules on which you are relying and the ‘punishments’ available. I fear they may be a disappointment to you!

I haven’t looked at them other than what was posted earlier where it seemed clear he had broken the rules despite one of his fans trying to say he hadn’t.

He was fined last time but that issue seemed far less serious?

Interesting to know what you have to do to get fired.

It is also ironic that Farage is proclaiming he is all about democracy etc. and is holding up these EU elections as a huge democratic statement. Yes Farage who has been telling us how undemocratic anything EU related is for years. Is this point really lost?

[Troubleatmill]

DeepEnd said:

... Is this point really lost?

We really don't care.
You can post up night and day how much you loathe the man.
It simply does not matter.

If he can help get us out of the EU - that is good enough for me.


As Farage put it - It is about democracy.

[Pan Pan Pan]

christian-ohtc3 said:

FiF said:

Meanwhile in a Gallup International survey across the EU27 nations, in a question what to do if the UK parliament fails to ratify May's deal, 52% of respondents said the EU should renegotiate the deal, 34% said it should not.

In Remain land that means the correct decision is not to renegotiate as it's not a binding vote, am I doing this right?

In 1975 only 43% of the electorate voted to remain in the EEC using remain land logic that result should be void as well.

Perhaps more significant is the fact that no ordinary citizen in the UK voted, or was even given the chance to vote on whether or not they wanted the UK to be a member of the EU in the first place.
How in 1975 could the people of the UK be asked to vote for something that would not exist for another 18 years, let alone understand what being in an EU would mean for them and the UK?
Yet in 2016 we had some bleating that there was not enough information available to make a decision.
Well by 2016, the people of the UK had had over 40 years of `actual' experience of being in the EU, not to mention information from the internet, numerous TV channels, far more newspapers, televised HoC and HoL and other tv debates etc which did not exist in 1975, and the majority voted to leave .
Since no ordinary citizens in the UK were allowed to vote, on whether or not they wanted the UK to be in the EU, let alone be allowed to make legal challenges to the result of the 2016 democratic vote on the matter, is UK membership of the EU even legal?

Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Sunday 19th May 18:06

[Vanden Saab]

Garvin said:

DeepEnd said:

It is very suspect to have such a huge income and not declare it. It is potentially a massive breach.

The issue for the EU is whether they investigate now or after he gets elected to be a TBP MEP for another 5 years. If they play it right they can dismiss him pretty much as soon as he is elected.

It’s a lot worse than using the company Ford Galaxy on weekends.

Dismiss him? Really? I think you need to check the rules on which you are relying and the ‘punishments’ available. I fear they may be a disappointment to you!

EU Punishment said:

The penalty may consist of one or more of the following measures:
(a) a reprimand;
(b) forfeiture of entitlement to the daily subsistence allowance for a period of between two and thirty days;
(c) without prejudice to the right to vote in plenary, and subject, in this instance, to strict compliance with the Members' standards of conduct, temporary suspension from participation in all or some of the activities of Parliament for a period of between two and thirty days on which Parliament or any of its bodies committees or delegations meet

Nige must be quaking in his boots....

Edited by Vanden Saab on Sunday 19th May 10:06

[gooner1]

Squiddly Diddly said:

gooner1 said:

But we have to take part, it's your EU rules.

I appreciate that we have to because we haven't left yet. That doesn't change my point though.

Good, now we have established EU elections are a waste of time and money, yet by their
own stupid rules even those that are supposedely leaving, HAVE to take part.

Or do the EU believe that under the current terms, the UK is not truly leaving?

[Randy Winkman]

Robertj21a said:

Randy Winkman said:

A balanced view, I think. I appreciate we are in a position where there was a legitimate vote and "leave" won. It would be hard not to go through with that in a democracy. But I don't like the hear the suggestion that "the people" voted for Brexit or that Brexit is "the will of the people" when the vote was so close and fewer than half of the population and way less than half of the total population voted for it.

Perhaps all those who didn't vote in the referendum should have considered doing so !!
The 'will of the people' can only ever apply to that part of the electorate that can be bothered to indicate their preference. No point in whingeing after the event if they hadn't voted.

Of course, that's point of a democratic vote. But my point is that I think that the expression "the people" is being misused to suggest that the majority of the UK will be up in arms if Brexit doesn't happen in a particular way.

[Tuna]

DeepEnd said:

So that’s Alf?, Tuna and now Robert claiming I’m another poster - Topstuff?

I’m not.

Is that a thing here? Do I sound similar?

No, not claiming, I just asked. Your posting style is similar and you did rather enter the discussion all guns blazing.

There are a small number of posters who leave, only to turn up again with a different name to distance themselves from previous arguments.

More than happy to accept your word on it, and happy to debate any points you raise (after I've walked the dog).

[JuanCarlosFandango]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Perhaps more significant is the fact that no ordinary citizen in the UK voted, or was even given the chance to vote on whether or not they wanted the UK to be a member of the EU in the first place.
How in 1975 could the people of the UK be asked to vote for something that would not exist for another 18 years, let alone understand what being in an EU would mean for them and the UK?
Yet in 2016 we had some bleating that there was not enough information available to make a decision.
Well by 2016, the people of the UK had had over 40 years of `actual' experience of being in the EU, not to mention information from the internet, numerous TV channels, far more newspapers, televised HoC and HoL and other tv debates etc which did not exist in 1975, and the majority voted to leave to look at and consider.
Since no ordinary citizens in the UK were allowed to vote, on whether or not they wanted the UK to be in the EU, let alone be allowed to make legal challenges to the result of the 2016 democratic vote on the matter, is UK membership of the EU even legal?

Didn't you hear? The electorate were much 'better informed' in 1975. We only had 3 TV channels and 2 were the BBC. All those people who had gone to their library and seen a copy of the Treaty of Rome thought it was marvellous, and there was no internet full of information enabling any fool to go and read the treaties for himself, or comment on them or discuss them. The proof is in the pudding - we must have been better informed because we voted the right way that time.

40 years later all these old codgers who voted Remain in 1975 suddenly decided they preferred the British Empire and didn't like foreigners after all, having been fooled by Putin and his cronies on Twitter.

True story.