John Terry to face charges

[Ozzie Osmond]

DP1 said:

Premier league players should realise that they are role models and with that there are certain responsibilities.

This argument I do not agree with at all. You appear to be saying that people in the public eye should have stricter version of the law applied to them than people who are not. (It's not the same as a school teacher who has a specific "duty of care" to his/her pupils.)

It sits alongside the opposite misunderstanding where tweeting, internet posting or pub talk are somehow seen as beyond the reach of the law.

[shauniebabes]

unrepentant said:

^^^^^^^^^ What he said.

I'm pretty shocked at all the apologist "take it like a man comments" on the thread. The 1960's is over and anyone who thinks it's ok to call anyone, be they footballer or anyone else, a black Ct really needs to go back to school.

In the 1960s, provided you didn't slander anybody you could say what you liked, and grown men could insult each other without it becoming a criminal matter.

And if you were to tell the children of today that they wouldn't believe you

[DP1]

I'm not saying that they should have any stricter version of the law applied to them at all but breaking one in front of millions of people on TV (which then also goes onto you tube) is a little dumb and asking for trouble.

[warch]

DP1 said:

Premier league players should realise that they are role models and with that there are certain responsibilities.

Absolutely. Last year we entered a six a side league (our average age in the team being about early thirties) playing against teams mostly in their teens. In general they were a disgrace, diving, abusing the ref when decisions didn't go their way, basically trickledown from the Football League.

Twenty or even ten years ago I used to enjoy supporting England. I can't bear to support scum like Rooney or Terry.

[BMWBen]

DP1 said:

BMWBen said:

Disagree -the point is that those are generically offensive to all people in those categories, even when said to one. The race issue is one which is particularly sensitive, because race has been used as a basis for persecution in the recent past and is still a major issue in our society.

So, they're all offensive but race is potentially more offensive than the others and is the only one that is strictly illegal on that basis.

And to play devil's advocate, what effect does the "heat of the moment" have on whether something is morally acceptable exactly?

You might murder your wife in the "heat of the moment", does that make it ok?

Absolutley correct especially the 'heat of the moment' comment. You do not see this in other sports such as rugby where emotions also run high. It infuriates me that football considers itself such an exception to the civilised rules of behaviour.

Were I to be disciplined at work like Saurez I would be sacked, that's it. I would not be expect to get messages of support, appeals on my behalf etc.

Premier league players should realise that they are role models and with that there are certain responsibilities.

I think another thing that the media/authorities seem to completely ignore is that a large portion of the UK population is in fact, quite racist! Outside of the major cities there are plenty of people who don't like being near/around/associating with "those people". The way the media/government talk about it you'd believe this wasn't the case, but it really is. And I'm not saying it's limited to white vs others either.

[Ozzie Osmond]

BMWBen said:

I think another thing that the media/authorities seem to completely ignore is that a large portion of the UK population is in fact, quite racist!

Even if you are right the point is irrelevant. We know there are lots of people who disagree with the law on speeding, use of mobile phones while driving etc etc. If something is an offence it is an offence, whether or not everybody agrees with it.

The laws on racial insults are generally there to protect minorities from bullying by a majority group. Whether that is applicable on the football field may be debateable.

It will be an interesting case. If Terry is found "not guilty" then all bets are off!

[warch]

Ozzie Osmond said:

warch said:

In general they were a disgrace, diving, abusing the ref when decisions didn't go their way, basically trickledown from the Football League.

Twenty or even ten years ago I used to enjoy supporting England. I can't bear to support scum like Rooney or Terry.

Does the sty make the pig or the pig make the sty?

The whole sorry state of affairs is neatly encapsulated within the expression "professional foul". Step forward Luis Suarez who, despite his obvious talent, appears to lead the field in this area.

There might be something in that, JT was always going to be a ghastly little chav whatever he did for a living, suppose he must be congratulated for achieving so much...

[BMWBen]

Ozzie Osmond said:

BMWBen said:

I think another thing that the media/authorities seem to completely ignore is that a large portion of the UK population is in fact, quite racist!

Even if you are right the point is irrelevant. We know there are lots of people who disagree with the law on speeding, use of mobile phones while driving etc etc. If something is an offence it is an offence, whether or not everybody agrees with it.

The laws on racial insults are generally there to protect minorities from bullying by a majority group. Whether that is applicable on the football field may be debateable.

It will be an interesting case. If Terry is found "not guilty" then all bets are off!

See my earlier comments if there's any doubt as to my position on this I was more giving a perspective on why there might be so much support for him, even on here.

[oyster]

Old Merc said:

When four black women attack a white girl and say "kill the white slag" as they kick her on the ground,that`s not a crime,and they are let off.

Oh no not again.

Did you read the case or did you just read the extract from the Mail?

[vz-r_dave]

I smile at all of JT's misfortunes and that is simply because he is a fking of a human being(no reference to colour).

The guy isnt racist, he is simply a stupid tt who cant keep his mouth shut or his cock in his pants. For that reason alone he should be fking burned for this and I cant wait to see it happen.

[Willy Nilly]

2 years below me when I was at school was a "promising young footballer". He played for the England under 21s and played in the Championship, so he was pretty good. He was also brown in colour and a nice lad. His older brother was in the year below me and was a genuine black . He would rile people then play the race card. A tt of the highest order.

My brother played a lot of football, not at the same level ultimately as this lad, but they did play in the same schoolboy leagues and had kick arounds later as grown ups when the lad in question was a pro. My brother always had a lot of respect for him, because he didn't give a toss what people called him and would take the piss out of himself and the colour of his skin. Good man.

[TheHeretic]

vz-r_dave said:

I smile at all of JT's misfortunes and that is simply because he is a fking of a human being(no reference to colour).

The guy isnt racist, he is simply a stupid tt who cant keep his mouth shut or his cock in his pants. For that reason alone he should be fking burned for this and I cant wait to see it happen.

By keep his cock in his pants, you mean have a relationship with someone who had already split up with someone else vaguely related to his profession? As for keep his mouth shut, what has he said that has upset you so much that you would be happy to see someone burned regardless? What of what he says is true, and he was responding to an accusation of calling someone black as he says? Do you care? Would you rather see someone punished for something they didn't do because for some reason you feel his private life has anything at all to do with you?

[Pseudonym17]

My Pakistani friend Ali-oh excuse me-my friend Ali who comes from Pakistan once called me a typical thick paddy when I didn't agree with him over something on a night out. I proceeded to tell him calm down don't get all suicide bombery on us! Everyone, Ali included, burst out laughing but one random loser started telling me I was racist and Ali stuck up for me and told said loser that he was the racist for making an issue of it!

Terry and Ferdinand are grown men having an argument, if terry had told ferdinand what he had done to his mother and sister the night previously we wouldn't be hearing about this! Why is describing his appearence any more offensive? Is he not proud to be black/have black roots?

[dandarez]

shauniebabes said:

unrepentant said:

^^^^^^^^^ What he said.

I'm pretty shocked at all the apologist "take it like a man comments" on the thread. The 1960's is over and anyone who thinks it's ok to call anyone, be they footballer or anyone else, a black Ct really needs to go back to school.

In the 1960s, provided you didn't slander anybody you could say what you liked, and grown men could insult each other without it becoming a criminal matter.

And if you were to tell the children of today that they wouldn't believe you

I was there in the 60s (teenager) and recall one of the first black players, Clyde Best at West Ham.

He got the sort of abuse that would have some of today's overpaid rubbish (of all creeds) crying on the pitch.

He wasn't just a big guy, he was a bloody good footballer too.
The difference in those days is he was virtually alone as a black player (today, all this about racism, it doesn't seem to have harmed the numbers of black players increasing in football does it?).

Yeah, Best went out and played, and incredibly well. He took the ste thrown at him and when asked how he did it, this was his common sense approach, sadly now lost. Give me the 60s any day to today.
Clyde Best replied:

"All football fans are the same.
If you are rubbish, they will let you know about it.
If you do well they will always love you."

[ATTAK Z]

dandarez said:

I was there in the 60s (teenager) and recall one of the first black players, Clyde Best at West Ham.

I can go back even further ..... 1950s .... Doncaster Rovers .... Charlie Williams - great guy who was always willing to help kids and always had a smile on his face

[warch]

How hard can it be to not abuse someone, racially or otherwise? if you don't do it you won't have to answer for it? By the way if anyone's confusing this with a passion for the sport why do other sportsman not feel the need to bother. At least say cricketers usually come up with something witty. Even boxers tend towards trash talking rather than outright abuse (notwithstanding David 'More onesided than a gang rape' Hayes)

[Ozzie Osmond]

Try rugby. Biting, gouging, the works.

[Tallbut Buxomly]

Chrisw666 said:

I'm a fat bloke with Ginger hair (Feel my pain).

Standard insults hurled at me by people are normally 'you fat ' 'you ginger ' or the old classic 'you fat ginger '.

Now I don't have a fking group of lawyers and hand wringing wkers defending my 'uman rights innit.

Instead I tend to applaud the person abusing me and congratulate them on their eyesight.

If Black/Brown people took the chip off their shoulder and did something similar then the world would be much more relaxed. As it stands the genuine racists in society (rather than someone who calls another man a name in an argument) are simply gathering support from fairly liberal folk like me.

Exactly. Well done this man for having an iq for all the disabilities he was born with !

Edited by Tallbut Buxomly on Thursday 22 December 22:59

[EDLT]

I think Frankie Boyle explained the story best:

John Terry is involved in an investigation to find out if one of the hundreds of insults he screamed at Anton Ferdinand included the word 'black.'

Maybe if JT was able to behave with a bit of professionalism then he'd never be in this mess. How many other sports have the participants calling each other some variation of "You fking " in front of tens of thousands of people and several TV cameras?

[Ozzie Osmond]

EDLT said:

How many other sports have the participants calling each other some variation of "You fking " in front of tens of thousands of people and several TV cameras?

How many other sports have the participants - spectators shouting the same insults at

• each other
• the match officials
• the players

in front of tens of thousands of people and several TV cameras?