The Government's new home ownership scheme.

[mattnunn]

Well sorry to state the blindingly fking obvious but as the banks are owned by the tax payer anyway isn't this just a cyclical insurance scheme desinged to keep a couple of farquars in pin stripe and 911 turbos.

The s, they must think we're fking retarded.

[Steffan]

mattnunn said:

Well sorry to state the blindingly fking obvious but as the banks are owned by the tax payer anyway isn't this just a cyclical insurance scheme desinged to keep a couple of farquars in pin stripe and 911 turbos.

The s, they must think we're fking retarded.

Whilst I believe the terminology of this post to be a little srtong, I do agree the Banks have developed dishonest fraud to an entirely new level. The sentiment and frustration ring true.

Bernard Corfield, the Maxwells, Alan Bond and co and Mt Madhoff were mere amateurs compared to the Banks in the 2008 Banking crisis. Upstarts in comparison to the Ponzi scheme the Banks have created en masse.

By being allowed to become too big to fail, the Banks ensured that they were bailed out by the taxpayers, without a single vote being cast, retained in their positions without any changes in remuneration and subsidised in order that they could pick up their bonuses each year.

If you wrote this in a book people would say it was poppycock.

It is actually fact.

Nothing will change I fear.

The Boys club in power throughout politics and finance will ensure trebles all round.

[Ari]

Derek Chevalier said:

There is weak demand because prices are still largely based on 2007 levels, and there are very few forced sellers.

I'm inclined to agree with you. And whilst interest rates are kept so low and people in distress have the option to switch to interest only mortgages (which of course have tiny repayments), there will be very few forced sales, not enough to make a difference.

Not that I want to see anyone forced out of their home if it can be avoided, but neither do I want to see first time buyers continue to be forced out of getting into the market by completely unrealistic prices that still reflect a time when lending went beyond merely lax and the amount of mortgage money sloshing around bears no resemblance to today's situation.

[crankedup]

Ari said:

crankedup said:

Ari said:

oyster said:

Ari said:

frosted said:

Because the most people want to move but are stuck , 5% deposit on all properties would get things moving again

No, realistic property prices would get things moving again, and would have the happy knock on effect of reducing deposits (20% of £100K is a hell of a lot less than 20% of £200K).

How do you define realistic?
If a property sells now for £200k, then that is what the market has set as the price. No-one has forced the price to that level.

Indeed in most parts of the country, prices are 15%-20% below the nominal prices back in 2007. So given wages have grown perhaps 8%-10% in that time means prices are around a quarter less than they were. With interest rates so low, if people can't buy now then I suggest they have financial issues bigger than merely the price of houses.

Big if. Because many many properties simply aren't selling for their asking prices, or even close to.

Trying to compare with 2007 prices is a fallacy. We've lost 100% mortgages, interest only mortgages, self certification mortgages, sub prime mortgages, and all the other things that banks wheeled out to create more and more debt and force house prices higher and higher. Remember, lend everyone twice and much money and they don't all end up with twice as much house, they end up in the same houses at twice the price instead!

But more than that we've lost the mindset that house prices are a one way bet, and that if you don't mortgage yourself to the hilt and cling on to the property ladder RIGHT NOW then it'll disappear from your grasp forever, or that if you get yourself a load of debt and a load of Buy To Lets you just can't lose.

All the old mantras of the people with selective memory that could only look backwards at where property prices had gone, not forwards at what might be coming next, are gone. You know "they're not building any more land" and "property prices double every seven years you know, that's a fact".

It was a giant ponzi scheme for years, prices driven up by the fact that prices only ever go up, people feeling forced to buy at stupid prices because, hey, it'll only cost more next week.

The mindset has gone and the money has gone. We're into a new stratagem now, and the government are all out of ideas (well, they only ever had one, drop interest rates and house prices go up. It worked too, until they couldn't drop any lower...)

You seem to knock back pretty much everything being said and its only you thats got it right. So what is this new stratagem you speak of. Also you need to note, its not the Government that sets loan rates.

Sorry, thought this was a discussion. Perhaps you'd better make it clearer in your posts if you don't want anyone to disagree with you.

Oh, and do you really believe that the BOE sets interest rates entirely independently of the government..?

I want people to disagree with me, my posts are about as clear as they could be its a matter of whether they are understood or not. Then they set out their stall of the disagreement! So as I asked and you avoided answering I ask again, what is your new stategem? The B.O.E. do not set the mortgage interest rates, its the commercial banks and building societies that are entirely independent that set mortgage interest rates. Everybody wants to see house building restarted in earnest as it is well understood that this industry is a main driver of growth, I have set that all out so its not difficult to understand the basics is it. Yet you seem to think that if the industry remains unsupported and stagnates the house prices will continue to drop making these houses more affordable for first time buyers. That strategy could take years, the reason being that a housing shortage is propping up prices, banks of Mums and Dads are helping FTBs to put down deposits, again propping up prices. The Country simply cannot continue to sit back and watch growth continue to decline.
Next time something in my posts is unclear why not ask for more detail?

[Derek Chevalier]

crankedup said:

Ari said:

crankedup said:

Ari said:

oyster said:

Ari said:

frosted said:

Because the most people want to move but are stuck , 5% deposit on all properties would get things moving again

No, realistic property prices would get things moving again, and would have the happy knock on effect of reducing deposits (20% of £100K is a hell of a lot less than 20% of £200K).

How do you define realistic?
If a property sells now for £200k, then that is what the market has set as the price. No-one has forced the price to that level.

Indeed in most parts of the country, prices are 15%-20% below the nominal prices back in 2007. So given wages have grown perhaps 8%-10% in that time means prices are around a quarter less than they were. With interest rates so low, if people can't buy now then I suggest they have financial issues bigger than merely the price of houses.

Big if. Because many many properties simply aren't selling for their asking prices, or even close to.

Trying to compare with 2007 prices is a fallacy. We've lost 100% mortgages, interest only mortgages, self certification mortgages, sub prime mortgages, and all the other things that banks wheeled out to create more and more debt and force house prices higher and higher. Remember, lend everyone twice and much money and they don't all end up with twice as much house, they end up in the same houses at twice the price instead!

But more than that we've lost the mindset that house prices are a one way bet, and that if you don't mortgage yourself to the hilt and cling on to the property ladder RIGHT NOW then it'll disappear from your grasp forever, or that if you get yourself a load of debt and a load of Buy To Lets you just can't lose.

All the old mantras of the people with selective memory that could only look backwards at where property prices had gone, not forwards at what might be coming next, are gone. You know "they're not building any more land" and "property prices double every seven years you know, that's a fact".

It was a giant ponzi scheme for years, prices driven up by the fact that prices only ever go up, people feeling forced to buy at stupid prices because, hey, it'll only cost more next week.

The mindset has gone and the money has gone. We're into a new stratagem now, and the government are all out of ideas (well, they only ever had one, drop interest rates and house prices go up. It worked too, until they couldn't drop any lower...)

You seem to knock back pretty much everything being said and its only you thats got it right. So what is this new stratagem you speak of. Also you need to note, its not the Government that sets loan rates.

Sorry, thought this was a discussion. Perhaps you'd better make it clearer in your posts if you don't want anyone to disagree with you.

Oh, and do you really believe that the BOE sets interest rates entirely independently of the government..?

I want people to disagree with me, my posts are about as clear as they could be its a matter of whether they are understood or not. Then they set out their stall of the disagreement! So as I asked and you avoided answering I ask again, what is your new stategem? The B.O.E. do not set the mortgage interest rates, its the commercial banks and building societies that are entirely independent that set mortgage interest rates. Everybody wants to see house building restarted in earnest as it is well understood that this industry is a main driver of growth, I have set that all out so its not difficult to understand the basics is it. Yet you seem to think that if the industry remains unsupported and stagnates the house prices will continue to drop making these houses more affordable for first time buyers. That strategy could take years, the reason being that a housing shortage is propping up prices, banks of Mums and Dads are helping FTBs to put down deposits, again propping up prices. The Country simply cannot continue to sit back and watch growth continue to decline.
Next time something in my posts is unclear why not ask for more detail?

crankedup said:

The B.O.E. do not set the mortgage interest rates, its the commercial banks and building societies that are entirely independent that set mortgage interest rates

I would assume there is a atrong correlation between base and LIBOR, so I'm not sure your statement is entirely correct

crankedup said:

the reason being that a housing shortage is propping up prices,

I would suggest that if the Government ceased to interfere (directly and indirectly) in the market, you would see how real the alleged shortage is.

[crankedup]

Derek Chevalier said:

I would suggest that if the Government ceased to interfere (directly and indirectly) in the market, you would see how real the alleged shortage is.

This is, to the best of my knowledge, the first time that any Government has intervened within the private housing market in the U.K.
Do you not accept that a chronic housing shortage exists? In my own area (East Anglia) we need to build 200,000 units each and every year for the next twenty years as an attempt to satisfy the underlying trend of shortage. Thats in addition to the current planned builds!

[Derek Chevalier]

crankedup said:

Derek Chevalier said:

I would suggest that if the Government ceased to interfere (directly and indirectly) in the market, you would see how real the alleged shortage is.

This is, to the best of my knowledge, the first time that any Government has intervened within the private housing market in the U.K.
Do you not accept that a chronic housing shortage exists? In my own area (East Anglia) we need to build 200,000 units each and every year for the next twenty years as an attempt to satisfy the underlying trend of shortage. Thats in addition to the current planned builds!

I've seen no evidence of a shortage. When you say East Anglia needs to build 200000 pa, is this to prevent homelessness?

[crankedup]

Derek Chevalier said:

crankedup said:

Derek Chevalier said:

I would suggest that if the Government ceased to interfere (directly and indirectly) in the market, you would see how real the alleged shortage is.

This is, to the best of my knowledge, the first time that any Government has intervened within the private housing market in the U.K.
Do you not accept that a chronic housing shortage exists? In my own area (East Anglia) we need to build 200,000 units each and every year for the next twenty years as an attempt to satisfy the underlying trend of shortage. Thats in addition to the current planned builds!

I've seen no evidence of a shortage. When you say East Anglia needs to build 200000 pa, is this to prevent homelessness?

Its to provide people with homes, that is for those people that are currently looking for a home, those living with parents, anticipated population growth, anticipated social changes. The number was quoted on local BBC television news earlier this week. A couple of interesting links :
www.uklanddirectory.org.uk

www.propertycrumble.co.uk

[Derek Chevalier]

crankedup said:

Derek Chevalier said:

crankedup said:

Derek Chevalier said:

I would suggest that if the Government ceased to interfere (directly and indirectly) in the market, you would see how real the alleged shortage is.

This is, to the best of my knowledge, the first time that any Government has intervened within the private housing market in the U.K.
Do you not accept that a chronic housing shortage exists? In my own area (East Anglia) we need to build 200,000 units each and every year for the next twenty years as an attempt to satisfy the underlying trend of shortage. Thats in addition to the current planned builds!

I've seen no evidence of a shortage. When you say East Anglia needs to build 200000 pa, is this to prevent homelessness?

Its to provide people with homes, that is for those people that are currently looking for a home, those living with parents, anticipated population growth, anticipated social changes. The number was quoted on local BBC television news earlier this week. A couple of interesting links :
www.uklanddirectory.org.uk

www.propertycrumble.co.uk

Not sure what relevance the links have?

What kind of social changes are you referring to?

I would be interested to know where the BBC source was from, could it have been from the building industry?

I still don't understand why you think there is a chronic shortage at the moment - there is plenty for sale on Rightmove, even in East Anglia. I also don't understand why you need 200000 new homes per year when the population is what, 3 million?

[mattnunn]

Derek Chevalier said:

Not sure what relevance the links have?

What kind of social changes are you referring to?

I would be interested to know where the BBC source was from, could it have been from the building industry?

I still don't understand why you think there is a chronic shortage at the moment - there is plenty for sale on Rightmove, even in East Anglia. I also don't understand why you need 200000 new homes per year when the population is what, 3 million?

Sheds with beds mate...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Since the immigrant work in starbucks has suffered this lot are moving up your way to pick potatoes with the lithuanians.

I claim my prize.

[crankedup]

Derek Chevalier said:

crankedup said:

Derek Chevalier said:

crankedup said:

Derek Chevalier said:

I would suggest that if the Government ceased to interfere (directly and indirectly) in the market, you would see how real the alleged shortage is.

This is, to the best of my knowledge, the first time that any Government has intervened within the private housing market in the U.K.
Do you not accept that a chronic housing shortage exists? In my own area (East Anglia) we need to build 200,000 units each and every year for the next twenty years as an attempt to satisfy the underlying trend of shortage. Thats in addition to the current planned builds!

I've seen no evidence of a shortage. When you say East Anglia needs to build 200000 pa, is this to prevent homelessness?

Its to provide people with homes, that is for those people that are currently looking for a home, those living with parents, anticipated population growth, anticipated social changes. The number was quoted on local BBC television news earlier this week. A couple of interesting links :
www.uklanddirectory.org.uk

www.propertycrumble.co.uk

Not sure what relevance the links have?

What kind of social changes are you referring to?

I would be interested to know where the BBC source was from, could it have been from the building industry?

I still don't understand why you think there is a chronic shortage at the moment - there is plenty for sale on Rightmove, even in East Anglia. I also don't understand why you need 200000 new homes per year when the population is what, 3 million?

More questions! come on work it out I was talking about land as much as building, can you seriously not see a link with the two sources provided? You need to do some research of your own if you are still unable to accept some facts and numbers. Social changes include such things as divorce patterns rising, increasing numbers of older singles, rising costs of private rentals all putting pressure on to the housing shortage. These people all want to live in houses! I wasn't going to mention immigrant population increases.

Edited by crankedup on Wednesday 14th March 20:43

[Derek Chevalier]

crankedup said:

Derek Chevalier said:

crankedup said:

Derek Chevalier said:

crankedup said:

Derek Chevalier said:

I would suggest that if the Government ceased to interfere (directly and indirectly) in the market, you would see how real the alleged shortage is.

This is, to the best of my knowledge, the first time that any Government has intervened within the private housing market in the U.K.
Do you not accept that a chronic housing shortage exists? In my own area (East Anglia) we need to build 200,000 units each and every year for the next twenty years as an attempt to satisfy the underlying trend of shortage. Thats in addition to the current planned builds!

I've seen no evidence of a shortage. When you say East Anglia needs to build 200000 pa, is this to prevent homelessness?

Its to provide people with homes, that is for those people that are currently looking for a home, those living with parents, anticipated population growth, anticipated social changes. The number was quoted on local BBC television news earlier this week. A couple of interesting links :
www.uklanddirectory.org.uk

www.propertycrumble.co.uk

Not sure what relevance the links have?

What kind of social changes are you referring to?

I would be interested to know where the BBC source was from, could it have been from the building industry?

I still don't understand why you think there is a chronic shortage at the moment - there is plenty for sale on Rightmove, even in East Anglia. I also don't understand why you need 200000 new homes per year when the population is what, 3 million?

More questions! come on work it out I was talking about land as much as building, can you seriously not see a link with the two sources provided? You need to do some research of your own if you are still unable to accept some facts and numbers. Social changes include such things as divorce patterns rising, increasing numbers of older singles, rising costs of private rentals all putting pressure on to the housing shortage. These people all want to live in houses! I wasn't going to mention immigrant population increases.

Edited by crankedup on Wednesday 14th March 20:43

The 2 sources - I can't work out the link. The only land that would come on the site are those that the builders have declined - very few plots come onto the open market. Divorces are dropping, so that is another "fact" that isn't actually correct. From what I can see, rents aren't even keeping pace with RPI.

Any chance you can provide some facts rather than soundbites?

[Ari]

crankedup said:

Yet you seem to think that if the industry remains unsupported and stagnates the house prices will continue to drop making these houses more affordable for first time buyers. That strategy could take years, the reason being that a housing shortage is propping up prices, banks of Mums and Dads are helping FTBs to put down deposits, again propping up prices. The Country simply cannot continue to sit back and watch growth continue to decline.
Next time something in my posts is unclear why not ask for more detail?

I'm curious to know how old you are, and how many highly mortgaged rental properties you own.

But to give yo a little history, it took I think about 18 months for prices to crash significantly in the early nineties recession.

A recession that most commentators feel wasn't as bad as this one...

[Ari]

crankedup said:

This is, to the best of my knowledge, the first time that any Government has intervened within the private housing market in the U.K.
Do you not accept that a chronic housing shortage exists? In my own area (East Anglia) we need to build 200,000 units each and every year for the next twenty years as an attempt to satisfy the underlying trend of shortage. Thats in addition to the current planned builds!

How many properties are for sale, unsold, in East Anglia right now would you say?

A thousand? Ten thousand? A hundred thousand?

How many would you like?

Hardly a shortage is it...??