Will you vote in the next general election?

[hairykrishna]

Fittster said:

hairykrishna said:

AJS- said:

I won't vote as I didn't vote last time either. Not because I'm apathetic, nor because no party is close enough to my own views to merit a vote. Rather because I actually withold my consent from being governed in the way we currently are, and voting, or even spoiling your ballot lends a certain legitimacy to whatever party wins the election.

No, spoiling your ballot doesn't do that. In this country spoiled ballots count towards voter turnout. This means that the winning party actually has less of a percentage of the votes cast; if anything their victory is less 'legitimate'. If enough people spoiled their votes it'd be obvious that we think all of the parties are a bunch of s and our current system is stupid.

The issue isn't about which if any of the parties we should support but if the current democratic system is the best way to govern the country. Not all of us believe it is.

I get that; I am inclined to agree. I just think that not voting, even if a lot of people do it, is indistinguishable from apathy.

[AJS-]

hairykrishna said:

AJS- said:

I won't vote as I didn't vote last time either. Not because I'm apathetic, nor because no party is close enough to my own views to merit a vote. Rather because I actually withold my consent from being governed in the way we currently are, and voting, or even spoiling your ballot lends a certain legitimacy to whatever party wins the election.

No, spoiling your ballot doesn't do that. In this country spoiled ballots count towards voter turnout. This means that the winning party actually has less of a percentage of the votes cast; if anything their victory is less 'legitimate'. If enough people spoiled their votes it'd be obvious that we think all of the parties are a bunch of s and our current system is stupid.

You could argue that a lower voter turnout reduces legitimacy more than a higher number of spoiled ballots. It may be indistinguishable from apathy to the pundits and politicos who pick over the election results but to my mind it is a far more effective way to turn the election into an irrelevance than spoiling the ballot.

[Alfachick]

I do not understand why anyone who has the right to vote does not exercise this right. Unfortunately a lot of my friends don't see this and don't vote. Pisses me off no end.

[Fittster]

Alfachick said:

I do not understand why anyone who has the right to vote does not exercise this right. Unfortunately a lot of my friends don't see this and don't vote. Pisses me off no end.

A number of us on this thread have tried to explain why we don't vote. Maybe your friends have similar views, have you asked them why they choose not to vote?

[Alfachick]

Fittster said:

Alfachick said:

I do not understand why anyone who has the right to vote does not exercise this right. Unfortunately a lot of my friends don't see this and don't vote. Pisses me off no end.

A number of us on this thread have tried to explain why we don't vote. Maybe your friends have similar views, have you asked them why they choose not to vote?

\

I have several times asked my friends why they haven't voted.
The general answer is either (and this is no lie or exageration) : "I don't know enough about politics so don't feel that I should vote as it will probably be wrong"
OR
"why bother its a waste of time"

In answer to the first one why not read a newspaper occasionally? Or perhaps watch the 'news'? Or take ANY interest in what goes on around you in the world. Pathetic.

In answer to the second, well you have fk all right to complain about ANYTHING. So shut the fk up and sit in the corner with a dunce hat on you fkwit.

[A1GOY]

I always vote - It's important that we actually have some input into the running of the country!

[TankRizzo]

Adam B said:

I think it should be mandatory as in New Zealand (I think)

...and that peope who don't are worse idiots than even those who vote for stupid reasons ("parents always voted for them")

I'd like to see compulsory voting as well. Fines if you don't. You can just officially abstain if you don't know enough/like none of the eligible candidates.

When was the last time we had an electorate turnout of any real magnitude?

[AJS-]

It's mandatory to vote in Australia, don't think it is in New Zealand. Having lived in Australia I can't say that I found it to have any real effect on people's level of political involvement or interest. Just something else to dish out fines for.

Why should you be forced to vote? As I stated earlier, I choose not to vote as I don't recognise the legitimacy of an elected government and refusal to take part in this process is my way of expressing that. Spoiling the ballot is subtley different IMO, as it suggests an acknowledgement of the process but rejection of the available candidates.

[Adam B]

Fittster said:

Why can my views only be repsented by a political party? I am able to think and act as an individual so why should we not have a system where the intermediate politicans are removed from the system.

Why are you wedded to the party political system we currently have? Are you happy with the results it produces?

It produces crap results because XXXXX like you don't vote, and the turn out is so low that those who are in power believe they are not answerable to the electorate.

the system is never going to change so either:

a) vote for the party which BEST represents your views as an individual
b) start your own party
c) sit on your arse and think you are clever, but never ever complain about the state of the country as IMHO you have rejected you rights in that regard

[Fittster]

Adam B said:

Fittster said:

Why can my views only be repsented by a political party? I am able to think and act as an individual so why should we not have a system where the intermediate politicans are removed from the system.

Why are you wedded to the party political system we currently have? Are you happy with the results it produces?

It produces crap results because XXXXX like you don't vote, and the turn out is so low that those who are in power believe they are not answerable to the electorate.

the system is never going to change so either:

Why is the system never going to change? It hasn't existed in its current form for that long so it seems strange to say that it can't change.

Are you happy with the current government or do you believe that all the problems the country faces can be resolved by the conservative party? If not why haven't you started your own party?

[JonRB]

Jasandjules said:

I think it is almost a duty to vote.

I agree

Plotloss said:

People have died so each of us has a voice in a democratic nation.

Indeed. Doubly so for women.

Plotloss said:

Not vote?
Inconceivable.

I do not think that word means what you think it does, Viccini.

[andy400]

TBH I have more respect for people who can't be arsed to vote, than I do for supposedly intelligent people who will just vote Labour either a)Because their family always has, or b)Because of what Thatcher 'did' to the miners, some 25 years ago, or possibly both. Oh, FFS

[andy400]

JonRB said:

I do not think that word means what you think it does, Viccini.

You killed my father.

Prepare to die.

[F and F]

I will always vote it is my chance to influence how the country is run.

My grandmother told me from an early age how women had died to give me the right to vote and it would be in vain if I didn't.

TBH now it is difficult to see who is going to be able to get us out of this mess or stop it getting worse all I know is that Labour/GB have done a terrible job.

If people don't want to vote then spoil the vote - can you imagine the headlines if 50% of the votes were spoilt? It might actually show what the population really thinks.

[AJS-]

If my choice not to vote costs me my right to complain, does it also mean the government has no right to tax me?

How about a system where you could opt out of voting and hence opt out of the costs and benefits of government, as far as reasonably possible? No income tax, no "free" health care etc. What would the turn out be then in an election then?

[HundredthIdiot]

Whilst I recognise the very worthy reasons to vote, and consider myself politically interested, I would rather not vote for a party whose policies I largely disagree with. This means (currently) that I may either spoil the vote or abstain.

I would hope the effect of either would be to raise the question of why many people don't vote (which is not necessarily because they are stupid and disinterested) and might be more likely to bring about reform than just voting for whoever seemed slightly better and therefore rubber stamping the continuing idiocy.

That said, voting the current government out (whichever party is in power) at least brings about some fresh thinking, even if the results aren't much better.

The failure of the British electorate to oust Blair after the Iraq debacle is something that continues to depress me.

[Adam B]

Fittster said:

Why is the system never going to change? It hasn't existed in its current form for that long so it seems strange to say that it can't change.

well its kind of a self-perpetuating system don't you think:
a) the current government can reform the political system and won't choose to put themselves out of power
b) if poeple can't even be arsed to drag themselves to a voting station once every 4 years I think a revolution may be unlikely
c) can you point me to an alternative - China's command structure? Africa's warlord power?

Fittster said:

Are you happy with the current government or do you believe that all the problems the country faces can be resolved by the conservative party? If not why haven't you started your own party?

No I hate current Labour so I will voting for another party that more closely reflects my views (not all of them but you have to compromise somewhat in a country of 60m who may have opposing views to me), this will not resolve all problems (eg,. economy) but then I do not think any party will and the individual needs to take some responsibility too.

[ali_kat]

Fittster said:

ali_kat said:

But without their deaths, we would now be ruled by Germany (or worse!).

You have a voice, you don't like Labour (eg) in your area, vote for ANYONE else.

If everyone didn't vote cause they felt like you, and just one person in your ward did, who would win? The person that was voted for by one person.

Who complains about it - everyone when the taxes go up!

We can argue about the history of WW2 but that would take off topic.

What if I like bits of each party in my area but none full represent my views? It's the system that is the problem more than the politicians. I don't want the current system to continue so by refusing to vote in a small way I delegitimize it.

Take your example, if only one person was to vote there would be a realization that the system was broken and that reform was necessary. I assume from your post that you are planning to vote conservative at the next election. Do all the policies of that party reflect your personal views?

Give me direct democracy and I'll engage with the process, however I want nothing to do with the current system.

Indeed it would, so we won't, and I won't pick up on F and F's point about the Suffragets either as she made it very weel and beat me to it

Don't assume anything I said Labour because they are the current government

I agree with you that the system is crap, and some sort of reform was necessary, but I don't think that this example would make them change anything, I studied Politics at College and we went into all the ins and outs of changing it. Not even the USA style would solve it - we realised that there is no 'fair' way to change things.

Adam B has beaten me to the rest of the points that I wanted to ask you, so I leave it to you to answer

How would you do it?

[AlexKP]

Plotloss said:

plasticpig said:

Plotloss said:

People have died so each of us has a voice in a democratic nation.

Not vote?

Inconceivable.

I dont believe in democracy so its pointless voting.

I don't in the final analysis, a benevolent enlightened feudal system makes far more sense. Or even anarcho-capitalism.

Until that day comes however, its the best we've got.

So you would genuinely prefer a dictatorship then?

Where would you be in the pecking order? A Lord, or a serf?

[snowy slopes]

Im voting, just to try and force that shower of idiots at the end of whitehall out of a job, although sadly the main opposition isnt much better either, but at least if i vote then i can bh about it when gordy and his mates stay in power, mainly due to all the fkwit bell ends that vote labour because maggie thatcher ruined the country, so if thats the case how come you had more money in your pocket and can afford a holiday home in tenerife!! tts!