That's it, nuke the lot of 'em and be done with it

[john_p]

One thing I've never read anywhere is the attitude of those in the services to the action in Afghanistan.

Total waste of time?
Seeing progress ?
Tough job but worth it in the end?
etc

I only ever see the political viewpoint which is probably very different from those dodging IEDs in Helmand

[derestrictor]

I was going to start a philosophical thread about the purpose of life, etc given the unavoidable inhumanity that man - in all his disparate incarnations of 'civilisation' - appears utterly incapable of not visiting upon his own kind whether individually, or collectively (as in tribal contexts of any type/size you care to define) and therefore muse over the oldest query of 'em all, namely, what's the point?

It seems to me that people are, in the main, utterly selfish and seem to preen their personas, professional or otherwise in a manner wholly befitting the bipedal quonium.

I fully accept that a large minority of people conduct themsleves in quite the opposite fashion and I hail these gentle folk but the majority are a foul bunch of what Jonathon Swift would have defined as Yahoos.

In modern culture, Sigourney Weaver's Ripley's comment in Aliens ("you don't see them f@cking each other over for a goddam percentage") referring to the aliens themselves always struck a chord as I began to discover the true nature of the human condition.

Somewhere, the boy Satan must be laughing his cock off.

[Marf]

derestrictor said:

I was going to start a philosophical thread about the purpose of life, etc given the unavoidable inhumanity that man - in all his disparate incarnations of 'civilisation' - appears utterly incapable of not visiting upon his own kind whether individually, or collectively (as in tribal contexts of any type/size you care to define) and therefore muse over the oldest query of 'em all, namely, what's the point?

It seems to me that people are, in the main, utterly selfish and seem to preen their personas, professional or otherwise in a manner wholly befitting the bipedal quonium.

I fully accept that a large minority of people conduct themsleves in quite the opposite fashion and I hail these gentle folk but the majority are a foul bunch of what Jonathon Swift would have defined as Yahoos.

In modern culture, Sigourney Weaver's Ripley's comment in Aliens ("you don't see them f@cking each other over for a goddam percentage") referring to the aliens themselves always struck a chord as I began to discover the true nature of the human condition.

Somewhere, the boy Satan must be laughing his cock off.

Society, in the main, is nothing more than a macro-view of the evolutionary concept of survival of the fittest. Humanity's selfishness stems from this evolutionary standpoint.

[WreckedGecko]

Eric Mc said:

They are a fiercely independent people. They resent foreign intereference in their affairs, They don't even like the idea of central government from Kabul by their own people. They are tribal by nature and dio not want or understand Western style democracy. Therefore, trying to enforce such a system on them is a total waste of time.

Exactly so. We couldn't do it in 1842, 1880 or 1919, and Russia couldn't do it in the 80's.

Admitedly neither of us were really aiming for "democracy" back then, but the point is valid...

Tragic as it is surely we have know that the Afghan police, much like the Iraqi police, have been severely compromised for some time. Thats not to say that this could have been stopped, but perhaps could have been planned for.

[deeps]

Nappa said:

deeps said:

Nappa said:

deeps said:

funkyrobot said:

I did wonder how long it would take for a 'turncoat' to appear and do something like this.

Very very sad indeed.

From what I understand he wasn't a turncoat, he was an Afghan in his own country?

He was an Afghani, fighting alongside the British in Afghanistan, who then shot and killed 5 British soldiers who thought he was a friendly.

Yes I know, surely that's to be expected though? It doesn't make him a turncoat, I mean he was fighting his war and unfortunately for us, succeeded.

I know what you mean mate, but if he was fighting alongside the British, and then decided to shoot the British lads he was working with, that is exactly what he is.
A turncoat is a deserter/traitor who decides he doesn't want to do what he originally signed up for, and turns against those he used to fight with/for/alongside.

In this case I suspect he knew exactly what he was doing when he signed up. Personally I couldn't 100% trust any one of them to watch my back. How could anyone?

[tank slapper]

Marf said:

Society, in the main, is nothing more than a macro-view of the evolutionary concept of survival of the fittest. Humanity's selfishness stems from this evolutionary standpoint.

Society is a by-product of us evolving concious thought, nothing more. Survival of the fittest as an evolutionary concept applies to a species as a whole rather than any individual or societal sub grouping. All it states is that the species is good enough to survive. Selfishness or selflessness is not something that is unique to humans at all, there are plenty of other species that operate on a co-operative basis (which is effectively all society is) and there are plenty of others that do not co-operate outside of their immediate family grouping or even at all.

The behaviours of individual societies is best explained by anthropology rather than any biological evolutionary concept. Differing behaviours in humans are influenced by their upbringing and environment rather than their physiology. You could quite happily take a baby from a primative culture and raise it in a western country, and it would grow up to be no different from anyone else born there, and vice versa.

[southendpier]

deeps said:

Fittster said:

southendpier said:

Ok, when the Soviets left the country it was in a world of shyte. Taliban eventually get ahold. This wasn't very good for the West.

Serious issue - we bring 'our boys' back home and a Afghani/AlQaeda/Taliban funded cell blows up a tube train in 2012 on the eve of the Olympics for example?

Last time the bombers were from Brum, I'm not sure killing Afghans will actually make us safer in 2012.

That's right, British born and bred Muslims they were. Educated too as far as I recall?

Then there was the incident at Glasgow(?) airport, where two British born muslims tried to firebomb the entrance. One was a doctor I believe.

There's many more sleeping cells in this country, what's happened in Afghanistan/Iraq only fuels their desires.

Training, funding and cause comes from where though? Several Islamic terrorist incidents happened in the West before 9/11. We are there as retaliation to those attacks - are we not?

[Fittster]

southendpier said:

deeps said:

Fittster said:

southendpier said:

Ok, when the Soviets left the country it was in a world of shyte. Taliban eventually get ahold. This wasn't very good for the West.

Serious issue - we bring 'our boys' back home and a Afghani/AlQaeda/Taliban funded cell blows up a tube train in 2012 on the eve of the Olympics for example?

Last time the bombers were from Brum, I'm not sure killing Afghans will actually make us safer in 2012.

That's right, British born and bred Muslims they were. Educated too as far as I recall?

Then there was the incident at Glasgow(?) airport, where two British born muslims tried to firebomb the entrance. One was a doctor I believe.

There's many more sleeping cells in this country, what's happened in Afghanistan/Iraq only fuels their desires.

Training, funding and cause comes from where though? Several Islamic terrorist incidents happened in the West before 9/11. We are there as retaliation to those attacks - are we not?

I thought Saudi was the home to Islamtic militancy and where a lot of the cash comes from.

[odyssey2200]

southendpier said:

deeps said:

Fittster said:

southendpier said:

Ok, when the Soviets left the country it was in a world of shyte. Taliban eventually get ahold. This wasn't very good for the West.

Serious issue - we bring 'our boys' back home and a Afghani/AlQaeda/Taliban funded cell blows up a tube train in 2012 on the eve of the Olympics for example?

Last time the bombers were from Brum, I'm not sure killing Afghans will actually make us safer in 2012.

That's right, British born and bred Muslims they were. Educated too as far as I recall?

Then there was the incident at Glasgow(?) airport, where two British born muslims tried to firebomb the entrance. One was a doctor I believe.

There's many more sleeping cells in this country, what's happened in Afghanistan/Iraq only fuels their desires.

Training, funding and cause comes from where though? Several Islamic terrorist incidents happened in the West before 9/11. We are there as retaliation to those attacks - are we not?

Potentially we have an enemy within.

The question is how do we identify and remove these threats before any more damage is done?

IMHO "hate preachers" need to go! No appeals, No Human rights, PC crap.
Simple one way ticket out.
No more asylum seekers, no more exchange students, no more dodgy Doctors with jeeps full of gas cylinders etc.

Bring our boys home and use them to defend our borders.

[Fittster]

odyssey2200 said:

IMHO "hate preachers" need to go! No appeals, No Human rights, PC crap.
Simple one way ticket out.
No more asylum seekers, no more exchange students, no more dodgy Doctors with jeeps full of gas cylinders etc.

If these individuals have a UK passport where should they be sent to?

[randlemarcus]

Fittster said:

odyssey2200 said:

IMHO "hate preachers" need to go! No appeals, No Human rights, PC crap.
Simple one way ticket out.
No more asylum seekers, no more exchange students, no more dodgy Doctors with jeeps full of gas cylinders etc.

If these individuals have a UK passport where should they be sent to?

Glasgow, same as the last lot

too soon? :getscoat:

[odyssey2200]

Fittster said:

odyssey2200 said:

IMHO "hate preachers" need to go! No appeals, No Human rights, PC crap.
Simple one way ticket out.
No more asylum seekers, no more exchange students, no more dodgy Doctors with jeeps full of gas cylinders etc.

If these individuals have a UK passport where should they be sent to?

Hell?

As their belief is so strong send them to Mecca.
Alternatively Iraq, Iran, pakistan....
Give then the choice but they should not be allowed to stay here advocating Death to and beheading of infidels.

fk 'em I don't care where they go but that British Passport remains the property of Her Majesty' Government and should be confiscated as they leave.

[Mojocvh]

deeps said:

Nappa said:

deeps said:

funkyrobot said:

I did wonder how long it would take for a 'turncoat' to appear and do something like this.

Very very sad indeed.

From what I understand he wasn't a turncoat, he was an Afghan in his own country?

He was an Afghani, fighting alongside the British in Afghanistan, who then shot and killed 5 British soldiers who thought he was a friendly.

Yes I know, surely that's to be expected though? It doesn't make him a turncoat, I mean he was fighting his war and unfortunately for us, succeeded.

Latest word is he was stoned on H.

[eldar]

Now we are signed up to the Lisbon treaty and peart of Europe can we expect a more European approach to Afganistan? A few more euro-squaddies, maybe?

[odyssey2200]

eldar said:

Now we are signed up to the Lisbon treaty and peart of Europe can we expect a more European approach to Afganistan? A few more euro-squaddies, maybe?

[Dunk76]

derestrictor said:

I was going to start a philosophical thread about the purpose of life, etc given the unavoidable inhumanity that man - in all his disparate incarnations of 'civilisation' - appears utterly incapable of not visiting upon his own kind whether individually, or collectively (as in tribal contexts of any type/size you care to define) and therefore muse over the oldest query of 'em all, namely, what's the point?

It seems to me that people are, in the main, utterly selfish and seem to preen their personas, professional or otherwise in a manner wholly befitting the bipedal quonium.

I fully accept that a large minority of people conduct themsleves in quite the opposite fashion and I hail these gentle folk but the majority are a foul bunch of what Jonathon Swift would have defined as Yahoos.

In modern culture, Sigourney Weaver's Ripley's comment in Aliens ("you don't see them f@cking each other over for a goddam percentage") referring to the aliens themselves always struck a chord as I began to discover the true nature of the human condition.

Somewhere, the boy Satan must be laughing his cock off.

As I consider the state of Albion; mired knee deep in Vietnam II, 12 million with their fingers in the public purse, Europe directing how we run our banks, and people kicked to death for the sake of a 99p novelty hat, the only thing that strikes me these days is the words of Ian Brown.

"Stop little World, I want to get off"

[odyssey2200]

Dunk76 said:

derestrictor said:

I was going to start a philosophical thread about the purpose of life, etc given the unavoidable inhumanity that man - in all his disparate incarnations of 'civilisation' - appears utterly incapable of not visiting upon his own kind whether individually, or collectively (as in tribal contexts of any type/size you care to define) and therefore muse over the oldest query of 'em all, namely, what's the point?

It seems to me that people are, in the main, utterly selfish and seem to preen their personas, professional or otherwise in a manner wholly befitting the bipedal quonium.

I fully accept that a large minority of people conduct themsleves in quite the opposite fashion and I hail these gentle folk but the majority are a foul bunch of what Jonathon Swift would have defined as Yahoos.

In modern culture, Sigourney Weaver's Ripley's comment in Aliens ("you don't see them f@cking each other over for a goddam percentage") referring to the aliens themselves always struck a chord as I began to discover the true nature of the human condition.

Somewhere, the boy Satan must be laughing his cock off.

As I consider the state of Albion; mired knee deep in Vietnam II, 12 million with their fingers in the public purse, Europe directing how we run our banks, and people kicked to death for the sake of a 99p novelty hat, the only thing that strikes me these days is the words of Ian Brown.

"Stop little World, I want to get off"

or to use another Aliens quote

" How do I get out of this Chicken st Outfit?"

[Dunk76]

odyssey2200 said:

Dunk76 said:

derestrictor said:

I was going to start a philosophical thread about the purpose of life, etc given the unavoidable inhumanity that man - in all his disparate incarnations of 'civilisation' - appears utterly incapable of not visiting upon his own kind whether individually, or collectively (as in tribal contexts of any type/size you care to define) and therefore muse over the oldest query of 'em all, namely, what's the point?

It seems to me that people are, in the main, utterly selfish and seem to preen their personas, professional or otherwise in a manner wholly befitting the bipedal quonium.

I fully accept that a large minority of people conduct themsleves in quite the opposite fashion and I hail these gentle folk but the majority are a foul bunch of what Jonathon Swift would have defined as Yahoos.

In modern culture, Sigourney Weaver's Ripley's comment in Aliens ("you don't see them f@cking each other over for a goddam percentage") referring to the aliens themselves always struck a chord as I began to discover the true nature of the human condition.

Somewhere, the boy Satan must be laughing his cock off.

As I consider the state of Albion; mired knee deep in Vietnam II, 12 million with their fingers in the public purse, Europe directing how we run our banks, and people kicked to death for the sake of a 99p novelty hat, the only thing that strikes me these days is the words of Ian Brown.

"Stop little World, I want to get off"

or to use another Aliens quote

" How do I get out of this Chicken st Outfit?"

Heh, if we're going to stick with Aliens, then I think "We're on an express elevator to Hell... GOING DOWN!" is more apt currently.

[Muntu]

Eric Mc said:

I actually think their "little book" has very little to do with this.

Looks to me like he indulged in a bit of Taqiyya before he ended the Hudna

IMHO

[ExChrispy Porker]

To paraphrase Bismarck

the country is not worth risking the healthy bones of one of our grenadiers.