Bad news.. BP only made 5.6 billion....
Discussion
Nidjit said:
I remember when fuel hit £1 a litre. There were blockades and panic-buying, etc. Now it's gone up by at least 20% but... nothing. No go-slow's or anything.
Where's the carry-on? What's changed?
The law mainly. And complete and utter apathy and hopelessness felt by the average man on the street after decades of misrule.Where's the carry-on? What's changed?
GT03ROB said:
bob1179 said:
GT03ROB said:
bob1179 said:
GT03ROB said:
cs02rm0 said:
bob1179 said:
After all, do you realise how much it costs to explore, extract, refine then deliver your fuel to your local petrol station?
Peanuts relatively, surely? How else could they turn a profit in the billions, again, on a product that we pay 70% tax on?Edited by GT03ROB on Tuesday 27th April 09:28
Aktau...frikking dump in the middle of nowhere, makes you average inner city slum look like leafy Surrey. Flew from there to Almaty, was convinced the plane wasn't going to make it. Some clapped out old russian thing that looked like it was falling to bits. Pilots had definitely been drinking. Had to drink several large bottles of central Asian beer myself on the flight to calm my nerves!
crmcatee said:
Kazakstan..
Many many happy days there just after it opened up to the west. Almaty had nothing. Used to stay at a Sanitariam as there was no where else to stay. $50 a night.. Satellite phone on the balcony and a bottle of whisky to while away the hours..
Happy days...
I don't think anything has changed in the west of Kazakhstan... You were there in the early days then? I bet it was interesting.Many many happy days there just after it opened up to the west. Almaty had nothing. Used to stay at a Sanitariam as there was no where else to stay. $50 a night.. Satellite phone on the balcony and a bottle of whisky to while away the hours..
Happy days...
BP jobs are real jobs, they add to our production as part of our GDP, profits should be welcomed.
This has a two-fold effect and I have never seen or heard this pointed out on TV.
The first is that by making profits, these businesses can continue to invest without having to go to the banks who cream off a huge amount in loans to cash-strapped companies, so the effect of BP having good cash in the bank is they need less credit and it is those credit payments that add to OUR final charge.
So applaud BP and every other real business that makes real money, despair when they don't because then the banks get their snouts in the trough costing us all more in the end.
To give this some background, there is a very prominent banker in New York who despite being [supposedly] one of the worlds cleverest and intelligent men believes what he and his banker buddies do is 'Gods Work' expounding that he and his like loan money to businesses to explore and improves mans place... whilst appearing totally ignorant of the reason why they have to go to them in the first place, financial burdens imposed by governments.
It is why business tax should be as low as possible, the less occasions the business goes to the bank and self-finances the higher our standard of living climbs.
There is a direct correlation of Americas [and the UKs] decline in growing living standards with the growth of the Banking Industry.
Profit is good, greed is bad, banks only grow by greed, never, ever, at any time in history has any bank grown by profit!
This has a two-fold effect and I have never seen or heard this pointed out on TV.
The first is that by making profits, these businesses can continue to invest without having to go to the banks who cream off a huge amount in loans to cash-strapped companies, so the effect of BP having good cash in the bank is they need less credit and it is those credit payments that add to OUR final charge.
So applaud BP and every other real business that makes real money, despair when they don't because then the banks get their snouts in the trough costing us all more in the end.
To give this some background, there is a very prominent banker in New York who despite being [supposedly] one of the worlds cleverest and intelligent men believes what he and his banker buddies do is 'Gods Work' expounding that he and his like loan money to businesses to explore and improves mans place... whilst appearing totally ignorant of the reason why they have to go to them in the first place, financial burdens imposed by governments.
It is why business tax should be as low as possible, the less occasions the business goes to the bank and self-finances the higher our standard of living climbs.
There is a direct correlation of Americas [and the UKs] decline in growing living standards with the growth of the Banking Industry.
Profit is good, greed is bad, banks only grow by greed, never, ever, at any time in history has any bank grown by profit!
Bing o said:
Nidjit said:
I remember when fuel hit £1 a litre. There were blockades and panic-buying, etc. Now it's gone up by at least 20% but... nothing. No go-slow's or anything.
Where's the carry-on? What's changed?
The law mainly. And complete and utter apathy and hopelessness felt by the average man on the street after decades of misrule.Where's the carry-on? What's changed?
Political Pain said:
BP jobs are real jobs, they add to our production as part of our GDP, profits should be welcomed.
This has a two-fold effect and I have never seen or heard this pointed out on TV.
The first is that by making profits, these businesses can continue to invest without having to go to the banks who cream off a huge amount in loans to cash-strapped companies, so the effect of BP having good cash in the bank is they need less credit and it is those credit payments that add to OUR final charge.
So applaud BP and every other real business that makes real money, despair when they don't because then the banks get their snouts in the trough costing us all more in the end.
To give this some background, there is a very prominent banker in New York who despite being [supposedly] one of the worlds cleverest and intelligent men believes what he and his banker buddies do is 'Gods Work' expounding that he and his like loan money to businesses to explore and improves mans place... whilst appearing totally ignorant of the reason why they have to go to them in the first place, financial burdens imposed by governments.
It is why business tax should be as low as possible, the less occasions the business goes to the bank and self-finances the higher our standard of living climbs.
There is a direct correlation of Americas [and the UKs] decline in growing living standards with the growth of the Banking Industry.
Profit is good, greed is bad, banks only grow by greed, never, ever, at any time in history has any bank grown by profit!
FAIL!This has a two-fold effect and I have never seen or heard this pointed out on TV.
The first is that by making profits, these businesses can continue to invest without having to go to the banks who cream off a huge amount in loans to cash-strapped companies, so the effect of BP having good cash in the bank is they need less credit and it is those credit payments that add to OUR final charge.
So applaud BP and every other real business that makes real money, despair when they don't because then the banks get their snouts in the trough costing us all more in the end.
To give this some background, there is a very prominent banker in New York who despite being [supposedly] one of the worlds cleverest and intelligent men believes what he and his banker buddies do is 'Gods Work' expounding that he and his like loan money to businesses to explore and improves mans place... whilst appearing totally ignorant of the reason why they have to go to them in the first place, financial burdens imposed by governments.
It is why business tax should be as low as possible, the less occasions the business goes to the bank and self-finances the higher our standard of living climbs.
There is a direct correlation of Americas [and the UKs] decline in growing living standards with the growth of the Banking Industry.
Profit is good, greed is bad, banks only grow by greed, never, ever, at any time in history has any bank grown by profit!
rarely have I read such nonsense on PH.
1) Do you really think BP doesn't borrow from banks to finance huge exploration and drilling projects? Do you think they don't willingly use banks to arrange their share sales, bond issues? Or to hedge their currency risks, or their interest rate risks?
In fact, from BP's annual accounts, 2009:
Current liabilities (USD)
Trade and other payables 35,204
Derivative financial instruments 4,681
Accruals 6,202
Finance debt 9,109
Current tax payable 2,464
Provisions 12,970
Defined benefit pension plan and other post-retirement benefit plan deficits 10,010
Oh look, they owed 9 billion dollars to banks.
2) How do you think businesses - especially ones too small to access capital from share or bond issues - finance expansion? Or trade finance - have you ever even heard of it? Banks and credit fuel economic expansion - fact. Or maybe you don't think that economic expansion equates to higher standards of living. How about home ownership? Who lends the money? Do you own a house? Pay for it in cash did you? How about the many airlines that choose to lease aircraft from banks instead of buying them, as they don't want all their capital tied up in aircraft ownership? How about London ambulances - maybe you didn't know that nearly all of them are leased from a bank.
3) What decline in living standard exactly are you talking about? Show us a graph that shows this imaginary correlation. In fact, as we have seen, when banks retrenched and stopped lending, it caused a recession as credit dried up. So you are 100% wrong.
Capitalism fundamentally relies on banks to channel capital from people/businesses that have spare to those that need it, and in the most efficient manner possible. The Soviet Union tried an alternative method and it didn't turn out too well.
GT03ROB said:
cs02rm0 said:
bob1179 said:
After all, do you realise how much it costs to explore, extract, refine then deliver your fuel to your local petrol station?
Peanuts relatively, surely? How else could they turn a profit in the billions, again, on a product that we pay 70% tax on?Edited by GT03ROB on Tuesday 27th April 09:28
jshell said:
GT03ROB said:
cs02rm0 said:
bob1179 said:
After all, do you realise how much it costs to explore, extract, refine then deliver your fuel to your local petrol station?
Peanuts relatively, surely? How else could they turn a profit in the billions, again, on a product that we pay 70% tax on?Edited by GT03ROB on Tuesday 27th April 09:28
GT03ROB said:
jshell said:
GT03ROB said:
cs02rm0 said:
bob1179 said:
After all, do you realise how much it costs to explore, extract, refine then deliver your fuel to your local petrol station?
Peanuts relatively, surely? How else could they turn a profit in the billions, again, on a product that we pay 70% tax on?Edited by GT03ROB on Tuesday 27th April 09:28
After all these years, my 'Old man' still rages about IOC profits, no amount of explanation gets through. I've all but given up!
munky said:
Political Pain said:
'what I wrote'
FAIL!rarely have I read such nonsense on PH.
1) Do you really think BP doesn't borrow from banks to finance huge exploration and drilling projects? Do you think they don't willingly use banks to arrange their share sales, bond issues? Or to hedge their currency risks, or their interest rate risks?
In fact, from BP's annual accounts, 2009:
Current liabilities (USD)
Trade and other payables 35,204
Derivative financial instruments 4,681
Accruals 6,202
Finance debt 9,109
Current tax payable 2,464
Provisions 12,970
Defined benefit pension plan and other post-retirement benefit plan deficits 10,010
Oh look, they owed 9 billion dollars to banks.
2) How do you think businesses - especially ones too small to access capital from share or bond issues - finance expansion? Or trade finance - have you ever even heard of it? Banks and credit fuel economic expansion - fact. Or maybe you don't think that economic expansion equates to higher standards of living. How about home ownership? Who lends the money? Do you own a house? Pay for it in cash did you? How about the many airlines that choose to lease aircraft from banks instead of buying them, as they don't want all their capital tied up in aircraft ownership? How about London ambulances - maybe you didn't know that nearly all of them are leased from a bank.
3) What decline in living standard exactly are you talking about? Show us a graph that shows this imaginary correlation. In fact, as we have seen, when banks retrenched and stopped lending, it caused a recession as credit dried up. So you are 100% wrong.
Capitalism fundamentally relies on banks to channel capital from people/businesses that have spare to those that need it, and in the most efficient manner possible. The Soviet Union tried an alternative method and it didn't turn out too well.
1/. It's called 'gearing' and it is about who has the upper hand in negotiating any finance.
2/. See 1/.
3/. The overall rate of living standards in the US has fallen, the rich have become rich at the huge expense of the poor, most young Americans know and realise that they will not be as wealthy as their parents, we even know this here, the Japanese have known this for over a decade. Capitalism is that what its name say 'capital'... funds... money the less you borrow the less you need to set aside for repayment and that old chap benefits all.
History.
Fact. Until the 1980s banks have always made less money in the good times than in than in the bad, Why?
Because business was able to sink profits into expansion so not requiring the banks input quite so much.
Fact. Banks decided to keep making money in the good by embroiling the US in 'easy money' loans in the 80s, this sea change is the root cause of much of the trouble that has swept from continent to continent in the last 30 years.
So in summary, a good profitable business that doesn't need to over-gear at the banks is in control, when businesses and governments borrow too much they are at the mercy of the Banks worldwide.
You can see this in the way that Brown is unable to control the banks without worldwide back-up, we are not actually over-geared, but we are close to the notional limit where we appear in psychological terms to be.
Just typed 'fail' into google... I think not.
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