Will the plan work to turn generation rent into buy?
Discussion
a311 said:
I struggle to fathom how some people living in south afford to live.
You just have to forget about national averages, and a good salary is 100k, not 50k. And then it starts to make sense. Sadly many jobs down here pay roughly what they do everywhere else, that's when I'd say it was worth leaving.Edited by a311 on Tuesday 13th April 12:21
stitched said:
As said, this time round felt almost civilised.
First time round was a lot harder, I had fewer skills and less money coming in.
I'd also moved to an area where people from my area were unwelcome, didn't stop me living there and making good friends though.
A 3 bed terrace in Chester, my hometown would have been between £70 and £90 grand.
Moving 15 miles away I bought one for £20k.
10 years later that one was rented and I was living mortgage free in a fairly decent ex council.
Lost all that and never expected to own property again, Life changes though.
The bit I don't get in your posts is what are you defending? I get the working class hero bit, I'm fond of it myself, but if your argument is that things have not got harder for the youth looking to get on the property ladder I disagree (whether I agree with the property ladder at all is a separate subject). You done well, you worked within a system that was not skewed in your favour, but you're in favour of protecting the glass ceiling now that you've got through it?First time round was a lot harder, I had fewer skills and less money coming in.
I'd also moved to an area where people from my area were unwelcome, didn't stop me living there and making good friends though.
A 3 bed terrace in Chester, my hometown would have been between £70 and £90 grand.
Moving 15 miles away I bought one for £20k.
10 years later that one was rented and I was living mortgage free in a fairly decent ex council.
Lost all that and never expected to own property again, Life changes though.
I've had many a good night out in Chester. One of my brothers used to live there and after renting for a bit eventually bought there (think the area was called Kensington Green, not one of the fancier parts). Can't remember what he paid for his house but pretty sure the amount of profit he made on it was nothing compared to the numbers being bandied about today. Managed to buy on a single wage whilst his now wife was still training to be a teacher. Pretty sure that would be impossible now.
okgo said:
a311 said:
I struggle to fathom how some people living in south afford to live.
You just have to forget about national averages, and a good salary is 100k, not 50k. And then it starts to make sense. Sadly many jobs down here pay roughly what they do everywhere else, that's when I'd say it was worth leaving.roger.mellie said:
stitched said:
As said, this time round felt almost civilised.
First time round was a lot harder, I had fewer skills and less money coming in.
I'd also moved to an area where people from my area were unwelcome, didn't stop me living there and making good friends though.
A 3 bed terrace in Chester, my hometown would have been between £70 and £90 grand.
Moving 15 miles away I bought one for £20k.
10 years later that one was rented and I was living mortgage free in a fairly decent ex council.
Lost all that and never expected to own property again, Life changes though.
The bit I don't get in your posts is what are you defending? I get the working class hero bit, I'm fond of it myself, but if your argument is that things have not got harder for the youth looking to get on the property ladder I disagree (whether I agree with the property ladder at all is a separate subject). You done well, you worked within a system that was not skewed in your favour, but you're in favour of protecting the glass ceiling now that you've got through it?First time round was a lot harder, I had fewer skills and less money coming in.
I'd also moved to an area where people from my area were unwelcome, didn't stop me living there and making good friends though.
A 3 bed terrace in Chester, my hometown would have been between £70 and £90 grand.
Moving 15 miles away I bought one for £20k.
10 years later that one was rented and I was living mortgage free in a fairly decent ex council.
Lost all that and never expected to own property again, Life changes though.
I've had many a good night out in Chester. One of my brothers used to live there and after renting for a bit eventually bought there (think the area was called Kensington Green, not one of the fancier parts). Can't remember what he paid for his house but pretty sure the amount of profit he made on it was nothing compared to the numbers being bandied about today. Managed to buy on a single wage whilst his now wife was still training to be a teacher. Pretty sure that would be impossible now.
The point I am trying to make is that I have done this twice.
Once at 26, once at 46, with little additional resource.
If I can manage it as a slightly depleted 46 year old surely it is not beyond a 26 year old today?
I agree house prices are inflated currently, also remember the late eighties when so many fell into negative equity and lost their homes.
Oh and as for the working class hero bit, I had the advantage of a private education, then chose to squander the advantage and travel.
I've been lucky more than most, still worked hard to be where I am.
a311 said:
It's not just house prices, I've heard what those living down south have to pay in child care. My mother never worked when we were kids then went back as we got older part and then full time. My wife wanted to work post kids which is good, and she has a good education and is well qualified which has allowed her the choice of working part time for what most would class as a good full time equivalent salary. If she didn't work we'd still have a decent life style, probably less holidays and so on. We pay ~£5 and hour for childcare, and similar for after school clubs.
I'm sure childminders exist down here too, it depends what you want doesn't it. A quick price up of a nursery in Newcastle shows it as being 900 quid a month for what I will pay 1500 a month for, so yes its cheaper, but it isn't like its 25% of the cost...
stitched said:
I'm not trying to be defensive.
The point I am trying to make is that I have done this twice.
Once at 26, once at 46, with little additional resource.
If I can manage it as a slightly depleted 46 year old surely it is not beyond a 26 year old today?
I agree house prices are inflated currently, also remember the late eighties when so many fell into negative equity and lost their homes.
Oh and as for the working class hero bit, I had the advantage of a private education, then chose to squander the advantage and travel.
I've been lucky more than most, still worked hard to be where I am.
Thanks and understood.The point I am trying to make is that I have done this twice.
Once at 26, once at 46, with little additional resource.
If I can manage it as a slightly depleted 46 year old surely it is not beyond a 26 year old today?
I agree house prices are inflated currently, also remember the late eighties when so many fell into negative equity and lost their homes.
Oh and as for the working class hero bit, I had the advantage of a private education, then chose to squander the advantage and travel.
I've been lucky more than most, still worked hard to be where I am.
I'm of a similar vintage to you and I think I've one more house move left in me. The number of criteria my wife and I have to make it worth the effort means we're struggling to find something that ticks every box - we've become too fussy
. But it's a luxury we can sort of afford, I'm personally of the view that it's a complete waste of money but I know I'll have to play the game. As long as it doesn't mean leaving myself in penury I'll go for it.Still think the young are being royally screwed by the current system and it is going to change at some point as the merrygoround can't be kept spinning forever. A bust is due. There are a few inflection points coming soon such as boomers dying in large numbers with us gen x-ers not having the cash or the population numbers to preserve those inflated property prices. What will be really interesting is if the UK becomes a country of renters rather than a country of owners (assuming those renters will be voters) and watching the parties having to do a volte face on many of the last few decades of policies.
I know you probably have no interest in Irish politics but SF have spotted that gap in the market on a disaffected youth priced out of the property market with no real rent protections and are doing extremely well out of platforming against that, can't see a similar disruptor happening in the UK yet.
mikewilliams79 said:
stitched said:
My other half was there as much as me, cleaning up my crap, helping wherever she could.
As with most ladies I have seen try it she has a talent for glossing wood which I lack.
The windfall, unwelcome as it was, came a couple of years later and paid for the outside.
The help across the road was a godsend, occasional meals, laundry facilities and showers made it almost civilised.
I'd have managed without mind.
Sounds like hell As with most ladies I have seen try it she has a talent for glossing wood which I lack.
The windfall, unwelcome as it was, came a couple of years later and paid for the outside.
The help across the road was a godsend, occasional meals, laundry facilities and showers made it almost civilised.
I'd have managed without mind.
It’s all about mindset.
I bought a wreck with potential. It was cheap because absolutely nobody wanted it. Many people don't recognise an opportunity because it comes disguised as hard work.
This morning was spent drilling & fixing inside the house. This afternoon was spent shovelling large amounts of stone. Tomorrow will be just like yesterday- painting.
This is how I afford the place I live in. If others feel that this sort of thing is either beneath them or too much effort then I have zero sympathy for them.
This morning was spent drilling & fixing inside the house. This afternoon was spent shovelling large amounts of stone. Tomorrow will be just like yesterday- painting.
This is how I afford the place I live in. If others feel that this sort of thing is either beneath them or too much effort then I have zero sympathy for them.
NRS said:
I have a house - I don't wish for it to increase - at least not more than real wage growth. For several reasons - one, house prices have been used to grow wealth instead of real wage growth, I don't think this is good for society as it creates more inequality.
I'm happy enough with my house, and would be fine with it not moving.
Fly on the wall in NRS' house:I'm happy enough with my house, and would be fine with it not moving.
"Hi Honey, I'm home"!
"Was it a good day"?
"Yes, excellent! And I've some good news"!
"Pray tell"!
"This house we bought a couple of years ago.....it's apparently now worth the same as we paid for it. In fact, honey, it may even be worth a bit less"!
"Eh? What's good about that"?
"Well you know we've always talked about the evils of inequality..."
"yes"
"so having lost a bit against inflation and possibly even a bit of basic value......"
"yes"
"...if things carry on this way we'll soon be worth not much more than those poor people at No. 7"
"But honey....."
"No buts about it! One day all shall be equal! No more will we be those rich b
ds at No.11, we'll be as potless as ANYBODY""erm, honey"
"yes"?
"I phoned my mum today. She says I can have my old room back, so more good news. You're soon going to have a house with twice as much space per occupant as you had before".
"Oh. No problem. I'd better phone the social work department and organise a family of homeless millenials at below market rent to sweeten down the occupant per sq metre average".
Equality. A Lowest Common Denominator concept coming soon to your community. Vote hard left!! Eat the Rich!
Edited by Groat on Tuesday 13th April 15:06
Groat said:
Fly on the wall in NRS' house:
"Hi Honey, I'm home"!
"Was it a good day"?
"Yes, excellent! And I've some good news"!
"Pray tell"!
"This house we bought a couple of years ago.....it's apparently now worth the same as we paid for it. In fact, honey, it may even be worth a bit less"!
"Eh? What's good about that"?
"Well you know we've always talked about the evils of inequality..."
"yes"
"so having lost a bit against inflation and possibly even a bit of basic value......"
"yes"
"...if things carry on this way we'll soon be worth not much more than those poor people at No. 7"
"But honey....."
"No buts about it! One day all shall be equal! No more will we be those rich bds at No.11, we'll be as potless as ANYBODY"
"erm, honey"
"yes"?
"I phoned my mum today. She says I can have my old room back, so more good news. You're soon going to have a house with twice as much space per occupant as you had before".
"Oh".
Equality. A Lowest Common Denominator concept coming soon to your community. Vote hard left!! Eat the Rich!
Why do I think you've an obvious interest in the bubble being protected?"Hi Honey, I'm home"!
"Was it a good day"?
"Yes, excellent! And I've some good news"!
"Pray tell"!
"This house we bought a couple of years ago.....it's apparently now worth the same as we paid for it. In fact, honey, it may even be worth a bit less"!
"Eh? What's good about that"?
"Well you know we've always talked about the evils of inequality..."
"yes"
"so having lost a bit against inflation and possibly even a bit of basic value......"
"yes"
"...if things carry on this way we'll soon be worth not much more than those poor people at No. 7"
"But honey....."
"No buts about it! One day all shall be equal! No more will we be those rich b
ds at No.11, we'll be as potless as ANYBODY""erm, honey"
"yes"?
"I phoned my mum today. She says I can have my old room back, so more good news. You're soon going to have a house with twice as much space per occupant as you had before".
"Oh".
Equality. A Lowest Common Denominator concept coming soon to your community. Vote hard left!! Eat the Rich!
roger.mellie said:
Why do I think you've an obvious interest in the bubble being protected?
If you're talking about the property price bubble it's probably because you don't know I'm a btl hodl'er who isn't any longer interested in mortgaging (or buying or selling either) and so couldn't give a fk about prices. Edited by Groat on Tuesday 13th April 15:38
mikewilliams79 said:
Evanivitch said:
Where does the single person live whilst renovating a property?
In the property, duuu! No kitchen? No problem, toaster in living room. No bathroom - wet wipes. That's how you do it if you really want it. RA RA.
We also stayed in the house during two major extension projects.
My house has, based on what my neighbour has put his up for sale at, gone up a significant amount since I bought it.
But it's a "nice to know", it doesn't actually mean anything, as I've already bought it, and I'm not looking to sell it.
If my area were some weird bubble where house prices remained unchanged, it'd be a little irksome knowing the same house somewhere else what gone up £100k or whatever, but I'm not sure it'd make a practical difference to my life in any way.
Over the entire country, it might bugger up whatever property investments my pension is tied into, though.
But it's a "nice to know", it doesn't actually mean anything, as I've already bought it, and I'm not looking to sell it.
If my area were some weird bubble where house prices remained unchanged, it'd be a little irksome knowing the same house somewhere else what gone up £100k or whatever, but I'm not sure it'd make a practical difference to my life in any way.
Over the entire country, it might bugger up whatever property investments my pension is tied into, though.
roger.mellie said:
stitched said:
I'm not trying to be defensive.
The point I am trying to make is that I have done this twice.
Once at 26, once at 46, with little additional resource.
If I can manage it as a slightly depleted 46 year old surely it is not beyond a 26 year old today?
I agree house prices are inflated currently, also remember the late eighties when so many fell into negative equity and lost their homes.
Oh and as for the working class hero bit, I had the advantage of a private education, then chose to squander the advantage and travel.
I've been lucky more than most, still worked hard to be where I am.
Thanks and understood.The point I am trying to make is that I have done this twice.
Once at 26, once at 46, with little additional resource.
If I can manage it as a slightly depleted 46 year old surely it is not beyond a 26 year old today?
I agree house prices are inflated currently, also remember the late eighties when so many fell into negative equity and lost their homes.
Oh and as for the working class hero bit, I had the advantage of a private education, then chose to squander the advantage and travel.
I've been lucky more than most, still worked hard to be where I am.
I'm of a similar vintage to you and I think I've one more house move left in me. The number of criteria my wife and I have to make it worth the effort means we're struggling to find something that ticks every box - we've become too fussy
. But it's a luxury we can sort of afford, I'm personally of the view that it's a complete waste of money but I know I'll have to play the game. As long as it doesn't mean leaving myself in penury I'll go for it.Still think the young are being royally screwed by the current system and it is going to change at some point as the merrygoround can't be kept spinning forever. A bust is due. There are a few inflection points coming soon such as boomers dying in large numbers with us gen x-ers not having the cash or the population numbers to preserve those inflated property prices. What will be really interesting is if the UK becomes a country of renters rather than a country of owners (assuming those renters will be voters) and watching the parties having to do a volte face on many of the last few decades of policies.
I know you probably have no interest in Irish politics but SF have spotted that gap in the market on a disaffected youth priced out of the property market with no real rent protections and are doing extremely well out of platforming against that, can't see a similar disruptor happening in the UK yet.
Still attainable though.
Biggy Stardust said:
I bought a wreck with potential. It was cheap because absolutely nobody wanted it. Many people don't recognise an opportunity because it comes disguised as hard work.
This morning was spent drilling & fixing inside the house. This afternoon was spent shovelling large amounts of stone. Tomorrow will be just like yesterday- painting.
This is how I afford the place I live in. If others feel that this sort of thing is either beneath them or too much effort then I have zero sympathy for them.
How much did the house cost (compared to its value) and how much will it cost to restore it?This morning was spent drilling & fixing inside the house. This afternoon was spent shovelling large amounts of stone. Tomorrow will be just like yesterday- painting.
This is how I afford the place I live in. If others feel that this sort of thing is either beneath them or too much effort then I have zero sympathy for them.
Groat said:
roger.mellie said:
Why do I think you've an obvious interest in the bubble being protected?
If you're talking about the property price bubble it's probably because you don't know I'm a btl hodl'er who isn't any longer interested in mortgaging (or buying or selling either) and so couldn't give a fk about prices. Edited by Groat on Tuesday 13th April 15:38
I'm not some kind of crazy left wing nut job. I mentioned if it keeps up with wage growth/inflation so it's not loosing lots. I'm 33, I have maybe £200 000 in savings/assets (only mine), I have a decent above average salary, no debt apart from the mortgage, and probably pretty reasonable pension savings too. I'm just satisfied with where I am in life. I can pay for my holidays without stress, have nice clothes, good quality equipment to do my hobbies (ski touring, cycling etc) and so on. I was party lucky enough, partly hard working enough to end up here despite being brought up in a 1 parent family on benefits, who had to leave home after school and no financial support from my parents. About the only thing I'd want extra in my life perhaps is a nice fun car, but being in Norway there's a lot less point than the UK (much higher cost to buy anything with any power, much stricter laws if caught). I'd rather that people in a situation such as mine were able to repeat that, rather than have the ladder pulled up behind me. Certainly when it comes to somewhere to live. More is nice, but it's certainly not needed, and many would love to be in the situation I am, so I'm happy with it.
stitched said:
Skills I learned doing up my other houses, apart from the sparky qualifications.
No help from family, no lies to the bank.
I did however have to take a job to secure the mortgage, which dropped my income by nearly £20k.
I had a decent amount saved, whilst sorting out the job and securing the mortgage I worked in Runcorn, Stonehouse near Stroud, Glasgow and London building up my deposit as much as possible.
Not everyone can do this, accepted.
Most have more family support than I did though.
Being a qualified electrician is exactly the skills I was talking about (and also requires many of the skills for plumbing and plastering)No help from family, no lies to the bank.
I did however have to take a job to secure the mortgage, which dropped my income by nearly £20k.
I had a decent amount saved, whilst sorting out the job and securing the mortgage I worked in Runcorn, Stonehouse near Stroud, Glasgow and London building up my deposit as much as possible.
Not everyone can do this, accepted.
Most have more family support than I did though.
No help from family? Apart from the family members whose hospitality you were reliant on.
No lies to the bank? Then how did you mortgage an uninhabitable house, or one you made uninhabitable?
There are several people talking about major renovations and buying uninhabitable houses. Something not open to most first time buyers.
Electro1980 said:
stitched said:
Skills I learned doing up my other houses, apart from the sparky qualifications.
No help from family, no lies to the bank.
I did however have to take a job to secure the mortgage, which dropped my income by nearly £20k.
I had a decent amount saved, whilst sorting out the job and securing the mortgage I worked in Runcorn, Stonehouse near Stroud, Glasgow and London building up my deposit as much as possible.
Not everyone can do this, accepted.
Most have more family support than I did though.
Being a qualified electrician is exactly the skills I was talking about (and also requires many of the skills for plumbing and plastering)No help from family, no lies to the bank.
I did however have to take a job to secure the mortgage, which dropped my income by nearly £20k.
I had a decent amount saved, whilst sorting out the job and securing the mortgage I worked in Runcorn, Stonehouse near Stroud, Glasgow and London building up my deposit as much as possible.
Not everyone can do this, accepted.
Most have more family support than I did though.
No help from family? Apart from the family members whose hospitality you were reliant on.
No lies to the bank? Then how did you mortgage an uninhabitable house, or one you made uninhabitable?
There are several people talking about major renovations and buying uninhabitable houses. Something not open to most first time buyers.
I was glad to have a shower across the road, especially after a 12 hour shift in a dairy.
No lies to the bank as I put £30k across as a deposit on a £150k property, again not many would have this, I certainly didn't first time around.
I also took a substantial pay cut.
I'd like to think my work on the house made it the opposite of uninhabitable.
Edited by stitched on Tuesday 13th April 19:20
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