CV19 - Cure Worse Than The Disease? (Vol 18)

[Roderick Spode]

Rufus Stone said:

Roderick Spode said:

Imagine the hysteria in the media. Or alternatively the deafening silence.

Thank goodness for the magic jabs. Peace be upon them.

Nanobots.

Wesley Crusher? Is that you? Don't let them take over the ship this time.

[Boringvolvodriver]

B'stard Child said:

I think they had a plan in place for a pandemic but they got spooked - either by China or possibly Italy - then headed down a pack mentality road - governments following each other like sheep (or rather unwilling to tread a different path for fear of getting it wrong)

In doing so they had to tell some little lies - they then have had to cover those lies. Now they can't tell the truth because they have to believe what they did was the right thing.

When have politicians ever told the truth anyway.................

With the added complication that they do not want the public to work out that what they did was a complete and utter over reaction and the the little lies were actually pretty big lies.

I don’t think we will ever find out the truth

[BigMon]

superlightr said:

BigMon said:

If you mean going to get a second opinion elsewhere, then I think it's a valid point unless you're talking about researching it yourself on the internet.

I certainly don't think medical professionals are infallible and do make mistakes, but I have much more trust in them than doing my own research via forums and the internet where anybody can claim and say anything.

I would agree with you save for the research via "internet" & "forums" and "asking others" -
there are plenty of factual medical sites which give examples of different conditions/illnesses which dont have a forum or asking others.

Internet search is vital. I agree forums will give varied views BUT a nuggert there may help point you in the right direction for your own research. Put it this way it - it saved my wife's life by me researching on line her symptoms and condition ( I didnt ask on forums) when the midwifes/NHS fobbed us off.

Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 11th May 10:31

I presume you then went to a different medical professional though rather than buying your own pills and prescribing your own treatments?

If so, that's exactly what I meant by getting a second opinion. Its just you did your own groundwork I guess (and much kudos to you for doing so).

[superlightr]

BigMon said:

superlightr said:

BigMon said:

If you mean going to get a second opinion elsewhere, then I think it's a valid point unless you're talking about researching it yourself on the internet.

I certainly don't think medical professionals are infallible and do make mistakes, but I have much more trust in them than doing my own research via forums and the internet where anybody can claim and say anything.

I would agree with you save for the research via "internet" & "forums" and "asking others" -
there are plenty of factual medical sites which give examples of different conditions/illnesses which dont have a forum or asking others.

Internet search is vital. I agree forums will give varied views BUT a nuggert there may help point you in the right direction for your own research. Put it this way it - it saved my wife's life by me researching on line her symptoms and condition ( I didnt ask on forums) when the midwifes/NHS fobbed us off.

Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 11th May 10:31

I presume you then went to a different medical professional though rather than buying your own pills and prescribing your own treatments?

If so, that's exactly what I meant by getting a second opinion. Its just you did your own groundwork I guess (and much kudos to you for doing so).

not really - She was already in Hospital. Maternity ward. The hospital was ignoring my wifes symptoms - I went and did my own research and found it matched xyz they said nope, thats unusual, it wont be that, dont worry and ignored it, didnt even test./check bearing in mind she had just given birth with twins and she wasn't looking right and had classic symptoms. It was HELLP syndrome.

It was the dismissive attitude, dont be silly, it wont be that. Normal things they should be looking out for they weren't even doing. Our twin girls born early were in the special care baby unit and were looked after well. Just that my wife wasnt.

Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 11th May 16:21

Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 11th May 16:22

[Challo]

superlightr said:

BigMon said:

superlightr said:

BigMon said:

If you mean going to get a second opinion elsewhere, then I think it's a valid point unless you're talking about researching it yourself on the internet.

I certainly don't think medical professionals are infallible and do make mistakes, but I have much more trust in them than doing my own research via forums and the internet where anybody can claim and say anything.

I would agree with you save for the research via "internet" & "forums" and "asking others" -
there are plenty of factual medical sites which give examples of different conditions/illnesses which dont have a forum or asking others.

Internet search is vital. I agree forums will give varied views BUT a nuggert there may help point you in the right direction for your own research. Put it this way it - it saved my wife's life by me researching on line her symptoms and condition ( I didnt ask on forums) when the midwifes/NHS fobbed us off.

Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 11th May 10:31

I presume you then went to a different medical professional though rather than buying your own pills and prescribing your own treatments?

If so, that's exactly what I meant by getting a second opinion. Its just you did your own groundwork I guess (and much kudos to you for doing so).

not really - She was already in Hospital. Maternity ward. The hospital was ignoring my wifes symptoms - I went and did my own research and found it matched xyz they said nope, thats unusual, it wont be that, dont worry and ignored it, didnt even test./check bearing in mind she had just given birth with twins and she wasn't looking right and had classic symptoms. It was HELLP syndrome.

It was the dismissive attitude, dont be silly, it wont be that. Normal things they should be looking out for they weren't even doing. Our twin girls born early were in the special care baby unit and were looked after well. Just that my wife wasnt.

Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 11th May 16:21

Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 11th May 16:22

Its great you managed to do that and help your wife, but lets look at it from the NHS point of view. If you take a look at the guidance from https://www.preeclampsia.org/hellp-syndrome which states the following:

'HELLP syndrome can be difficult to diagnose, because all of the typical signs of preeclampsia may not be apparent, such as high blood pressure and protein in the urine. Its symptoms are sometimes mistaken for gastritis, flu, acute hepatitis, acute fatty liver disease, gall bladder disease, or other conditions. While some of these conditions may also be present, there is no evidence they are related.'

So from that statement a) its difficult to diagnose, b) often can be mistaken for other symptoms. So if your the midwife they might not have spotted the rare liver disease and mistaken it for other symptoms. Perhaps they have never treated someone with that condition and over looked it as being a possibility.

Also they probably get lots of men / women who think their pregnant partners are really ill when infact they are fine. While you where right in this instance, they no doubt get lots of people that are wrong. Thats why its recommended to go ask for second opinions from a medical professional, rather than googling it.

[superlightr]

Challo said:

superlightr said:

BigMon said:

superlightr said:

BigMon said:

If you mean going to get a second opinion elsewhere, then I think it's a valid point unless you're talking about researching it yourself on the internet.

I certainly don't think medical professionals are infallible and do make mistakes, but I have much more trust in them than doing my own research via forums and the internet where anybody can claim and say anything.

I would agree with you save for the research via "internet" & "forums" and "asking others" -
there are plenty of factual medical sites which give examples of different conditions/illnesses which dont have a forum or asking others.

Internet search is vital. I agree forums will give varied views BUT a nuggert there may help point you in the right direction for your own research. Put it this way it - it saved my wife's life by me researching on line her symptoms and condition ( I didnt ask on forums) when the midwifes/NHS fobbed us off.

Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 11th May 10:31

I presume you then went to a different medical professional though rather than buying your own pills and prescribing your own treatments?

If so, that's exactly what I meant by getting a second opinion. Its just you did your own groundwork I guess (and much kudos to you for doing so).

not really - She was already in Hospital. Maternity ward. The hospital was ignoring my wifes symptoms - I went and did my own research and found it matched xyz they said nope, thats unusual, it wont be that, dont worry and ignored it, didnt even test./check bearing in mind she had just given birth with twins and she wasn't looking right and had classic symptoms. It was HELLP syndrome.

It was the dismissive attitude, dont be silly, it wont be that. Normal things they should be looking out for they weren't even doing. Our twin girls born early were in the special care baby unit and were looked after well. Just that my wife wasnt.

Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 11th May 16:21

Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 11th May 16:22

Its great you managed to do that and help your wife, but lets look at it from the NHS point of view. If you take a look at the guidance from https://www.preeclampsia.org/hellp-syndrome which states the following:

'HELLP syndrome can be difficult to diagnose, because all of the typical signs of preeclampsia may not be apparent, such as high blood pressure and protein in the urine. Its symptoms are sometimes mistaken for gastritis, flu, acute hepatitis, acute fatty liver disease, gall bladder disease, or other conditions. While some of these conditions may also be present, there is no evidence they are related.'

So from that statement a) its difficult to diagnose, b) often can be mistaken for other symptoms. So if your the midwife they might not have spotted the rare liver disease and mistaken it for other symptoms. Perhaps they have never treated someone with that condition and over looked it as being a possibility.

Also they probably get lots of men / women who think their pregnant partners are really ill when infact they are fine. While you where right in this instance, they no doubt get lots of people that are wrong. Thats why its recommended to go ask for second opinions from a medical professional, rather than googling it.

yes I agree with part of that that it may be difficult to diagnose but they didnt even want to test for it. I had to insist they test for it. You sound aware of what test they can do - they are simple tests.

There were a couple of key symptoms showing by going yellow due to liver damage/stress and also ichy all over which combined with having just given birth they should have been on the look out for. She looked like death and was the colour of a person just before death not the glow of a healthy fit early 30's woman. Its getting me upset even thinking about it all again so ill leave it at that. all i can say is that Im comfortable in saying that they were negligent and as a ex-lawyer I understand the full meaning of that word.

I mentioned the hernia op that went wrong (yes all ops carry a risk) but again they didnt follow up with basic welfare check whilst on ward ie blood pressure checks or checking to see why her stomach was swelling up/pain and she looked white/fainting. feking bleeding out inside. I wasnt there for that but for vising half way through the emergency op to be told 50/50 chance of survival. I forget how many units of blood she had but I recall it being a complete change.

So no I dont "trust" the level of care in the NHS and will try and double check if i think something is going wrong.

Although to temper the above she has just lst month had her Gall bladder removed and the care and attention was very good. I suppose that in the jobs Ive had Ive taken a lot of care and been very though in the different roles ive done and get cross when in a medical setting others appear dismissive and not really thinking about what they are seeing/doing despite a concerned party highlighting a particular issue and giving it to them on a plate they still dismiss it or you as being silly.

we also had more than our fair share of issue with 2 of our daughters 1 had great care at GOS and the other had poor mental health care when hospitalised with an eating disorder. That a painful story. My views are tainted by our own experiences but to bring it back on topic this was well before covid.

Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 11th May 21:05

Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 11th May 21:09

Edited by superlightr on Wednesday 11th May 21:10

[nick30]

superlightr said:

Deep stuff

[f

Totally amazing you can see a light at the end of the tunnel. I send a million emojis to your wife dude! Seriously big hand slap bro. Keep positive for your girls.

[ooid]

Sorry to hear about this, but how many years ago did that event happen? As far as I’m aware, NHS offer now free optional Preeclampsia and HEELP screening during pregnancy. They also become quite sensitive and screen through loads of checks. I’m also aware, the service and resources really depends on the location. I have had to visit Newham London Hospital a few years ago, and it was nothing but hell.

[GSE]

Boringvolvodriver said:

B'stard Child said:

I think they had a plan in place for a pandemic but they got spooked - either by China or possibly Italy - then headed down a pack mentality road - governments following each other like sheep (or rather unwilling to tread a different path for fear of getting it wrong)

In doing so they had to tell some little lies - they then have had to cover those lies. Now they can't tell the truth because they have to believe what they did was the right thing.

When have politicians ever told the truth anyway.................

With the added complication that they do not want the public to work out that what they did was a complete and utter over reaction and the the little lies were actually pretty big lies.

I don’t think we will ever find out the truth

And they acted like gangsters ...

... twisting your arm to get jabbed, or we'll ban you from going anywhere, or you'll lose your job ...
... pressurizing the media into towing the company line ...
... subjecting us to lock downs and ridiculous mask laws for 2 years ...
... running psyops to brainwash the public into conforming ...
... following The Science ™...
... taking advantage where they can, jobs for the boys ...
... partying & breaking their own laws right in the middle of it all, laughing at us...

The next election will be interesting. I can't see me voting for ANY of the current lot ever again...

[vixen1700]

Had to go for a test today for a booking tomorrow and it was in one of the private health company locations (big shopfront in shopping mall) and it was like something out of The Twilight Zone.

Total normality of the outside world then walking into a place that resembled Wuhan with everybody running around in head to toe PPE, along with a nice retro 2020 one-way system.

I just walked out thinking that people are making an absolute fortune proving people aren't sick. fking genius!

Express service had my PCR test back in about an hour: Negative.

[J210]

Have we had this yet

"SAGE models were too 'scary' and held too much weight... says lockdown architect behind them! No10 Covid expert admits death forecasts were 'eye watering' and should have considered economy"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10804993/...

[anonymous-user]

J210 said:

Have we had this yet

"SAGE models were too 'scary' and held too much weight... says lockdown architect behind them! No10 Covid expert admits death forecasts were 'eye watering' and should have considered economy"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10804993/...

So he’s sorry, we’ll that’s OK then. NOT!

These fkers don’t deserve to go anywhere near public policy modelling and advice ever again imo.

[Roderick Spode]

garyhun said:

J210 said:

Have we had this yet

"SAGE models were too 'scary' and held too much weight... says lockdown architect behind them! No10 Covid expert admits death forecasts were 'eye watering' and should have considered economy"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10804993/...

So he’s sorry, we’ll that’s OK then. NOT!

These fkers don’t deserve to go anywhere near public policy modelling and advice ever again imo.

Nah, we are fixing to hand it all over wholesale to the WHO for future pandemics. I'm sure that will end spectacularly well.

[poo at Paul's]

GSE said:

And they acted like gangsters ...

... twisting your arm to get jabbed, or we'll ban you from going anywhere, or you'll lose your job ...
... pressurizing the media into towing the company line ...
... subjecting us to lock downs and ridiculous mask laws for 2 years ...
... running psyops to brainwash the public into conforming ...
... following The Science ™...
... taking advantage where they can, jobs for the boys ...
... partying & breaking their own laws right in the middle of it all, laughing at us...

The next election will be interesting. I can't see me voting for ANY of the current lot ever again...

And yet, 178k deaths here in UK, with population of 65million odd. USA, 1 million deaths with population of 330 million odd. Similar death tolls overall both had moments of "draconian" measures, but in reality, they were very limited to short periods or populations. Pubs were shut a bit, but let's not pretend we havent all been able to pretty much go about our lives for last 2 years.

How do you think places like Brazil really fared? Or India? What about China? I cant help but believe we lost fewer people in the "West" as a result of the measures undertaken and lifestyles we lead / chose to lead. And look how the Chinese are faring now. We have been allowed to carry on as normal with no restrictions in England for 9 months now. Where would you rather live, UK or China, India, Brazil?
It wasnt perfect, but I think most people accept that whilst not enjoyable and with a large financial cost, it did serve a purpose to reduce deaths and serious illness overall.
You may not agree, or you may, but state the cost was too high. But whilst you wont vote for "any of them" (which means you cannot really vote at all as they ALL went along with it, lest we forget), but many will see that it did serve a purpose

[Donbot]

cough Sweden cough

[NerveAgent]

Donbot said:

cough Sweden cough

Come on, that’s rule one - Sweden must only be compared with its neighbours with half the population

[Boringvolvodriver]

And of course we will never know for sure what would have happened if we hadn't had the restrictions in place.......unless we model it of course!

I am not convinced about the last 2 years being normal either unless your normal is not going out or not being allowed to see family in your own home or visiting people in hospital or only having a handful of people at a funeral where you can't comfort your own mother.

[Donbot]

Boringvolvodriver said:

And of course we will never know for sure what would have happened if we hadn't had the restrictions in place.......unless we model it of course!

I am not convinced about the last 2 years being normal either unless your normal is not going out or not being allowed to see family in your own home or visiting people in hospital or only having a handful of people at a funeral where you can't comfort your own mother.

If nothing else lockdowns have highlighted who the recluses are.

[GSE]

poo at Paul's said:

And yet, 178k deaths here in UK, with population of 65million odd. USA, 1 million deaths with population of 330 million odd. Similar death tolls overall both had moments of "draconian" measures, but in reality, they were very limited to short periods or populations. Pubs were shut a bit, but let's not pretend we havent all been able to pretty much go about our lives for last 2 years.

How do you think places like Brazil really fared? Or India? What about China? I cant help but believe we lost fewer people in the "West" as a result of the measures undertaken and lifestyles we lead / chose to lead. And look how the Chinese are faring now. We have been allowed to carry on as normal with no restrictions in England for 9 months now. Where would you rather live, UK or China, India, Brazil?
It wasnt perfect, but I think most people accept that whilst not enjoyable and with a large financial cost, it did serve a purpose to reduce deaths and serious illness overall.
You may not agree, or you may, but state the cost was too high. But whilst you wont vote for "any of them" (which means you cannot really vote at all as they ALL went along with it, lest we forget), but many will see that it did serve a purpose

I don't deny that lockdown was 'easier' in the UK compared to other countries. Did we save more lives pro-rata compared to other countries? Who knows, the answer lies within lies damn lies and statistics somewhere, we'll probably never know. I have to say though that I disagreed with pretty much all of the governments response right from the start (yes I know, with hindsight...) particularly their removal of personal freedom and the incessant coercion to get jabbed. I feel now that I couldn't vote for anyone that supported those actions.

[carinaman]

Wasn't preeclampsia the subject of one of those public information plot lines on The Archers?