CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 10)

[RSTurboPaul]

bodhi said:

Folks, I came up with a bit of a pet theory last night and I was wondering if you could indulge me for a couple of minutes - don't worry, there's no 5G or eternal lockdown content, more musing about natural factors which may determine how different countries handled the pandemic.

We know that Australia and New Zealand has very low levels of COVID and deaths from it, so well done to our antipodean friends. The Zero COVID lot will always hold them up as the proof that swift action works, however I think there is something else at play that isn't entirely being considered.

I cast my mind back to science class when I was growing up, and Aus/NZ were mentioned a lot back then in relation to the scare story of the time - the hole in the Ozone layer. Less ozone means less UV Filtration of sunlight, means more UV radiation hitting Earth below it.

There's been quite a bit of research looking into the effects of UV on Coronavirus - no, not the Orange Man injecting it into everyone - but in Israel, where they've been looking to see if COVID can be killed with UV light, with a view to building it into filtration systems. The results so far have been pretty impressive:

https://www.israel21c.org/you-can-kill-covid-with-...

So I started thinking what else UV is associated with, and got to the fairly grisly subject of skin cancer - too many harmful UV rays are well known to be a cause of this, so thought I'd do some more Googling and came up with the below:

https://www.wcrf.org/dietandcancer/cancer-trends/s...

Australia/New Zealand at the top of the pile, as you would expect if they are having issues with their UV filter in the sky. Interestingly the league table there almost seems to be a mirror image of how affected the same countries were with COVID.....

So whilst they did keep their numbers low, is it not the case that Australia / New Zealand were an incredibly harsh environment for the virus to survive - especially given the virus arrived in summer when everyone was outside enjoying the weather?

Ergo let's not shower too much praise on them, considering they were playing Call of COVID 2020 on the Easy Setting?

Feel free to tell me I'm talking nonsense, but the above seemed entirely sensible when it popped into my head at 1:30 this morning....

This video from Hugo Talks on the WEF's latest UV-lamp offerings is interesting...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROdlfKxSes0




Perhaps we shall soon all be bathed in the warm invisible barrage glow of added UV in every streetlamp and household lightbulb*?


(*For the electricians on here, yes, I am aware they are not 'bulbs' )

[Taylor James]

isaldiri said:

Taylor James said:

However, unless this is the first respiratory virus in history that doesn't affect fewer people in warmer months, expect more restrictions later in the year with the arrival of the Death Star airborne mutant variant (aka people start dying of flu and pneumonia in their tens of thousands like most years).

The only hope for a return to 2019 levels of normality is if the current group of
influencing scientists is changed or their terms of reference are changed.

You see I genuinely wonder why some people are seeming so desperately wishing for restrictions to return in winter for flu etc .... mainly it seems so they can say 'i told you so'.

Unlike some I still even at this point don't think people like Whitty and Vallance etc are doing or saying whatever they have out of some desire to destroy capitalist society or to setup whatever nefarious future planned for us by the not so secret group of 'elites' otherwise known as the WEF.

Restrictions look like they have been broadly set in place to preserve NHS capacity and in particular ICU/critical capacity. In a normal/mild flu winter, we have about 3k on average. In a bad flu winter that goes up to 3200-3300. In spring 2020 we had ~4500. By early nov with mainly only the north of England affected icu capacity was already at 3000 ish. At the high point of jan it was 5000+. Restrictions as implemented here were extremely crude and badly targeted of course but whether through lack of imagination or ability to think otherwise or more just plain political cowardice, nothing else other than blanket restrictions were considered.

That risk of very high numbers in icu isn't present anymore given the high levels of vaccination rollout in the elderly groups. Sure it's theoretically possible from modelling that if everyone gets infected again then high-ish numbers will start appearing in hospitals or dropping dead again but real life data (ie last summer) suggests that is very unlikely and by winter the over 50s will be long done and then there simply isn't that risk even if a severe flu winter happens again, especially as we've quite a few less vulnerable people to respiratory illnesses....

In my case it's a prediction not a wish and an alternative view to the one that we are on the path to normality. I don't know why the government and their chosen scientists are persisting with this so I don't attribute it to dark forces, Tony Blair or anything else. I just believe seasonality alone will reduce infections (as it would have without vaccinations) and that when infections rise again in the Autumn, together with deaths from apparently absent flu and pneumonia, restrictions will return. I don't make the prediction so that if I'm right I can say I told you so. I just make the prediction.

[CAH706]

Stuzza said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

That's hilarious... firstly the use of decimals to make the numbers seem bigger at first glance (OMG! It's three digits!) and second some of the changes; Tewkesbury up to 28.4 from 27.4/10000, West Oxfordshire up a whole 0.9 from 25.3/100000, ... and as for Guildford with a rate increasing by 0.7/100000 only nuking from orbit will do.

They will go into meltdown when there is an increase in cases (in some areas) following the schools going back and the massive uplift in testing. Of course we know some of those will be false positives and identifying cases does not increase the overall prevalence but it won't stop the media getting the tissues out!

[SCEtoAUX]

Stuzza said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

That's hilarious... firstly the use of decimals to make the numbers seem bigger at first glance (OMG! It's three digits!) and second some of the changes; Tewkesbury up to 28.4 from 27.4/10000, West Oxfordshire up a whole 0.9 from 25.3/100000, ... and as for Guildford with a rate increasing by 0.7/100000 only nuking from orbit will do.

It's not hilarious, it is utterly disgusting propaganda.

[bodhi]

RSTurboPaul said:

This video from Hugo Talks on the WEF's latest UV-lamp offerings is interesting...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROdlfKxSes0




Perhaps we shall soon all be bathed in the warm invisible barrage glow of added UV in every streetlamp and household lightbulb*?


(*For the electricians on here, yes, I am aware they are not 'bulbs' )

I just thought it was interesting an opened up all sorts of possibilities for UV filtration in HVAC systems for hospitals and other public buildings to stop future spread, plus further encouragement for us to get outside and enjoy the sunshine.

I was not expecting Anal Schwab and his mates to have taken a perfectly good idea and make it 1000x as sinister. Silly me I guess.

[johnboy1975]

MikeT66 said:

JHB tearing into Grant Shapps (or whatever he's called this week...).

Like watching a bulldog savage a limp and under-stuffed teddy bear.... but far more enjoyable.

Starts at 2:36:30

I saw that. She sounded genuinely angry However, she wasn't on the barricades herself, so how could GS join her? Metaphorically I guess would be her defence. And GS's seems to be that it's all going swimmingly (apparently we are the only country in the world to have a lockdown lifting plan - did I hear that right????)

But many many weasel words from GS about not everyone having had their 2nd jabs yet (which is a definite goalposts shift from Boris on 4th of Jan and GS himself when interviewed by JHB shortly after)

[RSTurboPaul]

bodhi said:

I was not expecting Anal Schwab and his mates to have taken a perfectly good idea and make it 1000x as sinister. Silly me I guess.

Noob.

[Jimmy No Hands]

A fruitful - largely lockdown free - Summer, on top of very rapidly growing apathy for the virus PLUS potentially 45m+ vaccinated by September will mean any, and I mean any real restrictions for Winter will be met with utter contempt I would imagine. HMG are aware of this ever spiralling lack of compliance even now with restrictions still in place.

Realistically, I think we'll have to endure shoddy distancing and potentially masks at most, and even then I suspect the number of "medically exempt" might magically rise.

Maybe I'm just blindly optimistic, but I can't foresee 'proper' restrictions again over winter.

[London424]

Pete102 said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Martial arts clubs. closed.
Ice rinks. closed/
cinema. closed.
tennis club. closed

etc.

This is very much NOT normal.

I feel quite sad for people whose lives aren’t much different or have minimal impact in the current situation to what it was like before.

[SCEtoAUX]

I cannot for the life of my understand what is going on now, and I found it pretty difficult before.

To all intents and purposes everyone who is at any kind of risk of dying from COVID has been vaccinated. There are a few that haven't, a few that don't want a vaccination and a few that can't have a vaccination. There is the matter of the second vaccination of course, but broadly speaking the main task of protecting the vulnerable (and something like another 10 million at current figures) is done.

COVID isn't going away any time soon, it will kill more people, but we've lived with diseases forever and people die from them. Vaccinations will continue though, even better ones will come along.

Of course opening schools and society in general will mean a rise in positive tests, but where are these additional deaths and hospitalisations going to come from?

Whitty is toeing the line of keeping everyone scared because to opening everything up at a quicker pace, as is being unquestionably shown as appropriate by the figures, would leave this despicable Government with egg on their face.

[RSTurboPaul]

MikeT66 said:

JHB tearing into Grant Shapps (or whatever he's called this week...).

Like watching a bulldog savage a limp and under-stuffed teddy bear.... but far more enjoyable.

Starts at 2:36:30

Ha, nice.

I don't see anything in there he can really argue against - as always she makes accurate and evidence-based comments, to which the Govt person being interviewed has no real answers and can only fudge a response and/or move the goalposts (again).


I think I have a small crush on her

[Taylor James]

Jimmy No Hands said:

A fruitful - largely lockdown free - Summer, on top of very rapidly growing apathy for the virus PLUS potentially 45m+ vaccinated by September will mean any, and I mean any real restrictions for Winter will be met with utter contempt I would imagine. HMG are aware of this ever spiralling lack of compliance even now with restrictions still in place.

Realistically, I think we'll have to endure shoddy distancing and potentially masks at most, and even then I suspect the number of "medically exempt" might magically rise.

Maybe I'm just blindly optimistic, but I can't foresee 'proper' restrictions again over winter.

Have you seen how quiet it is out today compared to yesterday? It's like the absence of the flu. Amazingly, all those dogs that needed walking and people who needed to exercise yesterday, are all staying in today. All essential journeys seem to have been suspended as well. A glance out of the window will tell you why. It's bloody freezing with a howling wind and icy rain. The reaction to WFH and stay in if you can throughout next winter will be a resounding 'jolly good'.

[RSTurboPaul]

SCEtoAUX said:

I cannot for the life of my understand what is going on now, and I found it pretty difficult before.

To all intents and purposes everyone who is at any kind of risk of dying from COVID has been vaccinated. There are a few that haven't, a few that don't want a vaccination and a few that can't have a vaccination. There is the matter of the second vaccination of course, but broadly speaking the main task of protecting the vulnerable (and something like another 10 million at current figures) is done.

COVID isn't going away any time soon, it will kill more people, but we've lived with diseases forever and people die from them. Vaccinations will continue though, even better ones will come along.

Of course opening schools and society in general will mean a rise in positive tests, but where are these additional deaths and hospitalisations going to come from?

Whitty is toeing the line of keeping everyone scared because to opening everything up at a quicker pace, as is being unquestionably shown as appropriate by the figures, would leave this despicable Government with egg on their face.

If it is going to take three months to get Vaccine Passports working in the EU (as per Merkel's comment's on Youtube somewhere), current restrictions would conveniently take us through to just when they are available...


IMO Govt doesn't want to release us from lockdown without the 'green pass' being rolled out because (as with implementing lockdowns just after infection curves peak) it would clearly show nothing they are doing has any effect and people would not then accept imposition of restrictions (lockdown or 'freedom passes') later, while also stopping them from putting in place a key piece of electronic population control / Digital ID infrastructure.


I am aware isaldiri disagrees but I can see no other reason to maintain restrictions in the face of soon-to-be double-digit deaths per day, even considering the usual SAGE apocalypse predictions. There are too many countries across the world implementing it, and the few countries not doing it being openly denegrated so harshly, to not be something coordinated going on IMO.

Edited by RSTurboPaul on Wednesday 10th March 12:28

[rival38]

@ Jimmy No Hands

I struggle to agree. We have seen that 90%;of people DO comply with guidelines & laws. The non compliant others are easy to paint as selfish and hence be scapegoated.

No reason why the church of the NHS will not be screaming for the respite lockdown delivers to it. Nobody has had Flue for a year, and barely anybody has had a cold. As a population our immune systems are at a low ebb. Autumn and winter could essily see a big resurgence in Flue, bacterial pneumonia and other nasties.

Then we have the spectre of ‘new varient’ disease......which may be able to sidestep the vaccinated and may be more deadly......allegedly.

Autumn lockdowns are being pre marketed by SAGE ( Marr show last weekend ) and Whitty this week.

If HMG had any confidence in the vaccine or that their experimental lockdown strategy had worked, why would they be adding another £15B to the £22B already squandered on T&T.

The frantic seach for ‘cases’ is now taking place in schools.

I dont think we are even past the end of the beginning. The mood music does not imply that at all.

Autumn and winter scapegoating will be targeted at the ‘selfish non vaccinated’ as well as the ‘selfish rule breakers’

I would love to be wrong, but I fear much ugliness ahead.

Edited by rival38 on Wednesday 10th March 12:30

[Digga]

Taylor James said:

Amazingly, all those dogs that needed walking and people who needed to exercise yesterday, are all staying in today. All essential journeys seem to have been suspended as well. A glance out of the window will tell you why. It's bloody freezing with a howling wind and icy rain. The reaction to WFH and stay in if you can throughout next winter will be a resounding 'jolly good'.

I've owned dogs for 18 years. I live in an AONB and on a normal week would personally be walking them at the very least once a day, normally twice, though sometimes Mrs takes them without me. This come wind, rain, ice, snow gale forced winds eve. Draw the lines at electrical storms as we're a long way up a very open hillside.

It's ever been the case that we wonder what/where all the other dogs do for exercise when the weather is st.

[poo at Paul's]

Taylor James said:

Have you seen how quiet it is out today compared to yesterday? It's like the absence of the flu. Amazingly, all those dogs that needed walking and people who needed to exercise yesterday, are all staying in today. All essential journeys seem to have been suspended as well. A glance out of the window will tell you why. It's bloody freezing with a howling wind and icy rain. The reaction to WFH and stay in if you can throughout next winter will be a resounding 'jolly good'.

You are right! it's miserable out there, and there are no people out and about in our local walking areas apart from some very determined locals! All the cars abandonned on the verges have not materialised today for some reason!

I too think there will be some form of lockdown after xmas next year, WFH / Stay at home orders etc, even some schools restricited or closed. If used wisely to counter the effects of both winter covid and winter health service pressures, whilst not ideal for anyone, i think you have to accept it.

[RSTurboPaul]

rival38 said:

Autumn and winter scapegoating will be targeted at the ‘selfish non vaccinated’ as well as the ‘selfish rule breakers’

I would love to be wrong, but I fear much ugliness ahead.

This.

[grumbledoak]

RSTurboPaul said:

If it is going to take three months to get Vaccine Passports working in the EU (as per Merkel's comment's on Youtube somewhere), current restrictions would conveniently take us through to just when they are available...


IMO Govt doesn't want to release us from lockdown without the 'green pass' being rolled out because (as with implementing lockdowns just after infection curves peak) it would clearly show nothing they are doing has any effect and people would not then accept imposition of restrictions (lockdown or 'freedom passes') later., while also stopping them from putting in place a key piece of electronic population control.


I am aware isaldiri disagrees but I can see no other reason to maintain restrictions in the face of soon-to-be double-digit deaths per day, even considering the usual SAGE apocalypse predictions.

It isn’t just the pharmaceuticals making hay.

Digital ID will be rammed through.

And the population are being trained to believe that lockdowns are acceptable, necessary, and that they work. Because the government will want to use them again.

[isaldiri]

bodhi said:

I cast my mind back to science class when I was growing up, and Aus/NZ were mentioned a lot back then in relation to the scare story of the time - the hole in the Ozone layer. Less ozone means less UV Filtration of sunlight, means more UV radiation hitting Earth below it.

Australia/New Zealand at the top of the pile, as you would expect if they are having issues with their UV filter in the sky. Interestingly the league table there almost seems to be a mirror image of how affected the same countries were with COVID.....

So whilst they did keep their numbers low, is it not the case that Australia / New Zealand were an incredibly harsh environment for the virus to survive - especially given the virus arrived in summer when everyone was outside enjoying the weather?

Ergo let's not shower too much praise on them, considering they were playing Call of COVID 2020 on the Easy Setting?

I don't think it's likely UV or lack thereof explains the difference to Oz/NZ unfortunately as most maybe all transmission pretty much takes place indoors where that extra UV due to lack of ozone wouldn't be around. UV/vit d levels might make a (slight) difference to disease severity but not incidence I still tjink. Chile in the south has recorded relatively high levels of covid too so it's I think very unlikely to the major differentiating factor.

[V88Dicky]

Jimmy No Hands said:

Back to university next week for me. They want us to (voluntarily) do tests every week, twice a week, even if showing no symptoms.

I have a growing collection of LFDs in my work bag, going to have to find somewhere else to stow them