45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. (Vol 4)
Discussion
coyft said:
Yes farcical that unemployment is the lowest this century, markets are at all time high, wages growing and illegal immigration dropping like a stone.
At the same time a president who is willing to talk to long term enemies in order to achieve peace.
The biggest farce is that the US has a politician who is doing what he said he would!
How good is the Trump economy really?At the same time a president who is willing to talk to long term enemies in order to achieve peace.
The biggest farce is that the US has a politician who is doing what he said he would!
said:
So what is the most honest way of talking about the Trump economy? It goes like this: The president inherited an economy that had come a long way toward healing. During his administration, the economy has continued growing at about the same rate it did before he took office, pushing incomes, employment and output to yet higher levels.
There are plenty of problems that remain in the United States, economic and otherwise, and the degree of credit the president deserves for the state of the economy is an open debate. But this is a bathtub that is already pretty full, and the water’s rising nicely.
There are plenty of problems that remain in the United States, economic and otherwise, and the degree of credit the president deserves for the state of the economy is an open debate. But this is a bathtub that is already pretty full, and the water’s rising nicely.
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump said:
11h
PM Justin Trudeau of Canada acted so meek and mild during our @G7 meetings only to give a news conference after I left saying that, “US Tariffs were kind of insulting” and he “will not be pushed around.” Very dishonest & weak. Our Tariffs are in response to his of 270% on dairy!
Trump claimed steel tarrifs were raised as a national security issue and thus he had the power to enact them by decree. Now he's saying they're in response to Canadian dairy, effectively claiming he has exceeded his authority, or at least misused it.PM Justin Trudeau of Canada acted so meek and mild during our @G7 meetings only to give a news conference after I left saying that, “US Tariffs were kind of insulting” and he “will not be pushed around.” Very dishonest & weak. Our Tariffs are in response to his of 270% on dairy!
coyft said:
V6Pushfit said:
Difficult to believe the farcical state of the US
The man in unhinged
Yes farcical that unemployment is the lowest this century, markets are at all time high, wages growing and illegal immigration dropping like a stone.The man in unhinged
At the same time a president who is willing to talk to long term enemies in order to achieve peace.
The biggest farce is that the US has a politician who is doing what he said he would!
As for unemployment - currently less workers than jobs. Yet immigration is bad? And wage growth is still poor, so it doesn't benefit a lot of workers.
Quite a lot of the stuff posted here is anti-Trump because it is Trump, but a lot of the opposite is true too.
glazbagun said:
Donald J. Trump
270% on dairy....?! @realDonaldTrump said:
11h
PM Justin Trudeau of Canada acted so meek and mild during our @G7 meetings only to give a news conference after I left saying that, “US Tariffs were kind of insulting” and he “will not be pushed around.” Very dishonest & weak. Our Tariffs are in response to his of 270% on dairy!
Trump claimed steel tarrifs were raised as a national security issue and thus he had the power to enact them by decree. Now he's saying they're in response to Canadian dairy, effectively claiming he has exceeded his authority, or at least misused it.PM Justin Trudeau of Canada acted so meek and mild during our @G7 meetings only to give a news conference after I left saying that, “US Tariffs were kind of insulting” and he “will not be pushed around.” Very dishonest & weak. Our Tariffs are in response to his of 270% on dairy!
How is that fair on the U.S.?
_dobbo_ said:
Don't bother, he won't answer. He just drops in occasionally to deliver Trump's own soundbites straight from Twitter then leaves again.
We agreed to ignore the troll, he comes in drops his trump is great hand grranade without backing anything up, then disappears when quenstioned over details.All his latest w
k spittle is that as yet, trump hasn't managed to totally fk the economy because he's been distracted by the inquiry into his and team trumps criminal activities.Pop to Pennsylvania however and the steel workers are very worried about trumps trade wars. They think rather than being protected they'll be out of work by the end of the year
Halb said:
vonuber said:
Has he got dementia or something?
he might be bi-polar, or have another condition.Hare Checklist:
glib and superficial charm
grandiose (exaggeratedly high) estimation of self
need for stimulation
pathological lying
cunning and manipulativeness
lack of remorse or guilt
shallow affect (superficial emotional responsiveness)
callousness and lack of empathy
parasitic lifestyle
poor behavioral controls
sexual promiscuity
early behavior problems
lack of realistic long-term goals
impulsivity
irresponsibility
failure to accept responsibility for own actions
many short-term marital relationships
juvenile delinquency
revocation of conditional release
criminal versatility
coyft said:
1) unemployment is the lowest this century
2) markets are at all time high
3) wages growing
4) illegal immigration dropping like a stone.
1) Labour force participation rate stuck at ~63% as people give up looking for work and drop out of society2) markets are at all time high
3) wages growing
4) illegal immigration dropping like a stone.
2) Price of shares is rising but earnings are not.. This indicates a bubble rather than an increase in economic performance.
3) Real terms wage growth of 0.6% according to April figures.. That's not a big number so it's vulnerable to inflation but good that it is positive.
4) You're probably right but immigration is a subject that I find hard to give a poop about so someone else can look up the stats.
Overall the headline figures for the US economy are in good shape but there's nothing there to indicate that Trump has done anything exceptional. If he had done nothing at all then I would expect the numbers to look broadly similar.
I've never seen any decent statistics to support the idea Trump is good for the economy yet it is a core belief of the whole MAGA philosophy, a tenant of faith that disturbingly large parts of the media and public lack the curiosity or critical thinking to evaluate properly.
I'm becoming convinced that it has more to do with validation than economics. American (and British) politics have become so tribal that people have become emotionally invested in the idea that their team has it all figured out while the opposing team is dangerous / going to ruin the country / evil / corrupt / etc. Validating these years of emotional input towards a cause has become more important to people than facts or empirical study.
To an extent it may always have been thus but in the age of modern media it is becoming a dangerous vulnerability for unscrupulous journalists and enemies of democracy to exploit. Democratic governments have also been incredibly lax about improving public trust in politicians which is allowing this exploit to fester.
Byker28i said:
_dobbo_ said:
Don't bother, he won't answer. He just drops in occasionally to deliver Trump's own soundbites straight from Twitter then leaves again.
We agreed to ignore the troll, he comes in drops his trump is great hand grranade without backing anything up, then disappears when quenstioned over details.All his latest w
k spittle is that as yet, trump hasn't managed to totally fk the economy because he's been distracted by the inquiry into his and team trumps criminal activities.Pop to Pennsylvania however and the steel workers are very worried about trumps trade wars. They think rather than being protected they'll be out of work by the end of the year
*Sorry not supporters, just people who eulogise everything he says or does but apparently aren't supporters.
coyft said:
What is there to back up? Unemployment is the lowest it’s been this century. The markets are at an all time high. He is meeting with North Korea to try and negotiate their disarmament. He is making good on his pledges.
His pledges are, on the whole, despicable. He deserves zero credit for achieving them. As stated many, many times, the economy is simply following the same trajectory established over the previous 7 or 8 years. It would in all likelihood be doing just fine if he'd done nothing. And all he has done that could be deemed positive (in the short term) is enact a tax policy which will come home to roost bigly when he's safely out of the frame.As the article I posted up the page states, over the last 70 years 60% of the time a president could have said the markets are at an all time high. Trump might be a messiah to you, but he's just riding the wave set in motion by the predecessor he despises. I'm willing to bet this multiple bankrupt knows f
k all about how to run an economy, and America will find that out the hard way.Edited by minimoog on Sunday 10th June 14:01
Lots to agree with here.
@RadioFreeTom said:
It's not that I disagree about policy with Trump supporters. It's that I know they don't give a st about policy. There's no way to have a policy argument with people whose eyes are always looking up to the television for a cue from Dear Leader about what to say next.
As @JVLast once said, Trumpism is non-falsifiable. Whatever Trump does is right. There are no principled arguments to be had, because if Trump changes his mind or tweets something off the wall, Trumpers change their position immediately.
This would basically be a cult except for one thing: most Trumpers do not believe their own bullst. Yes, some of them really are stupid enough to think Trump is a good man and all that crap, but most of them are only interested in Trump as a vehicle of social disruption.
Trump's smarter enablers see him as an equalizer, a way to put them on an equal footing with "elites" - oh, that word - who they think look down on them. Thing is, the elites *do* look down on them. For good reason. Most of Trump's sycophants are second raters, at best.
For them, Trump is their shot. They know he's, um, emotionally disordered, to use @Peter_Wehner's term, but they don't care: this is their one chance to grab the car keys and throw a kegger before Mom and Dad get back home. That makes talking with them about policy impossible.
So if it seems like I don't engage Trump's enablers on the merits of this or that Trump policy, it's because I can't take Trump's "policies" any more seriously than Trump or his minions do. It's either pure stupidity or pure careerism, and either way, it's a waste of time.
Yes, there are people in government trying to hold everything together. I salute them and hope they can keep the ship afloat. But they can't make policy either. They can issue directives and hope for the best, mostly hoping Trump doesn't notice and overrule them via tweet.
I think we'd all be less exhausted if the Trumpers would just admit that what they value from Trump is the social leveling effect he has, forcing intelligent people to respond endlessly to stupid comments and bad ideas, than continue pretending they care about "policy."
For myself, I am resigned that Trump will be president for as long as he's president. How it ends is up to the voters. But I don't see the need to engage in the cynical bullsttery of arguing policy with people who will change their minds on anything in nanoseconds.
And for the love of God, don't tell me about what Trump's Real 'Muricans in the Heartland want. I know what they want: more government action, including money, delivered with a smile, inflated respect, and pity, earned or not. Those are utterly pointless discussions too.
Trump is going to do what Trump is going to do. He's not liberal or conservative. It's all just the blurted thoughts of an angry, frightened man who won an office he didn't really want. We have to get through it, but we don't have to pretend we're arguing about real things.
t about policy. There's no way to have a policy argument with people whose eyes are always looking up to the television for a cue from Dear Leader about what to say next. As @JVLast once said, Trumpism is non-falsifiable. Whatever Trump does is right. There are no principled arguments to be had, because if Trump changes his mind or tweets something off the wall, Trumpers change their position immediately.
This would basically be a cult except for one thing: most Trumpers do not believe their own bulls
t. Yes, some of them really are stupid enough to think Trump is a good man and all that crap, but most of them are only interested in Trump as a vehicle of social disruption. Trump's smarter enablers see him as an equalizer, a way to put them on an equal footing with "elites" - oh, that word - who they think look down on them. Thing is, the elites *do* look down on them. For good reason. Most of Trump's sycophants are second raters, at best.
For them, Trump is their shot. They know he's, um, emotionally disordered, to use @Peter_Wehner's term, but they don't care: this is their one chance to grab the car keys and throw a kegger before Mom and Dad get back home. That makes talking with them about policy impossible.
So if it seems like I don't engage Trump's enablers on the merits of this or that Trump policy, it's because I can't take Trump's "policies" any more seriously than Trump or his minions do. It's either pure stupidity or pure careerism, and either way, it's a waste of time.
Yes, there are people in government trying to hold everything together. I salute them and hope they can keep the ship afloat. But they can't make policy either. They can issue directives and hope for the best, mostly hoping Trump doesn't notice and overrule them via tweet.
I think we'd all be less exhausted if the Trumpers would just admit that what they value from Trump is the social leveling effect he has, forcing intelligent people to respond endlessly to stupid comments and bad ideas, than continue pretending they care about "policy."
For myself, I am resigned that Trump will be president for as long as he's president. How it ends is up to the voters. But I don't see the need to engage in the cynical bulls
ttery of arguing policy with people who will change their minds on anything in nanoseconds. And for the love of God, don't tell me about what Trump's Real 'Muricans in the Heartland want. I know what they want: more government action, including money, delivered with a smile, inflated respect, and pity, earned or not. Those are utterly pointless discussions too.
Trump is going to do what Trump is going to do. He's not liberal or conservative. It's all just the blurted thoughts of an angry, frightened man who won an office he didn't really want. We have to get through it, but we don't have to pretend we're arguing about real things.
said:
most of them are only interested in Trump as a vehicle of social disruption.
Trump's smarter enablers see him as an equalizer, a way to put them on an equal footing with "elites" - oh, that word - who they think look down on them. Thing is, the elites *do* look down on them. For good reason. Most of Trump's sycophants are second raters, at best.
This bit in particular rings very true of his fanbois here. Trump's smarter enablers see him as an equalizer, a way to put them on an equal footing with "elites" - oh, that word - who they think look down on them. Thing is, the elites *do* look down on them. For good reason. Most of Trump's sycophants are second raters, at best.
coyft said:
What is there to back up? Unemployment is the lowest it’s been this century. The markets are at an all time high.
You have been given a link by midenginedcoupe and a post from me above showing that neither of the indicators you mention show anything other than a continuation of Obama era economics, I have gone in to detail earlier in the thread as to why unemployment and share prices give an incomplete picture.That you chose not to engage on these topics is up to you but I would be interested to know your reasoning. I do not believe that you lack the intelligence or ability so it's got to be something else.
Was I anywhere near the mark in my above post?:
Tartan Pixie said:
I'm becoming convinced that it has more to do with validation than economics. American (and British) politics have become so tribal that people have become emotionally invested in the idea that their team has it all figured out while the opposing team is dangerous / going to ruin the country / evil / corrupt / etc. Validating these years of emotional input towards a cause has become more important to people than facts or empirical study.
coyft said:
minimoog said:
His pledges are, on the whole, despicable. He deserves zero credit for achieving them.
Sorry fella but that’s how democracy works.Edited by minimoog on Sunday 10th June 14:01
That article above is spot on. It describes Trump as a social vandal. He wants to break things - and he appeals to those of a similar bent. It's blindingly obvious.
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