Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result (Vol 2)
Discussion
Senior chap at Merrill Lynch saying today that the Eurozone is doomed. His theory is that it cannot continue with the current state and the southern countries including Italy will likely want out and Germany will not agree to subsidise such countries indefinitely. Think he spent some time in the IMF too. Interesting comments.
Troubleatmill said:
I am convinced the EU will deliberately propose a s
tty deal in the hope we buckle, backdown and stay in.
They will. What is sad though is that I was hoping after article 50 was triggered that those ardent Remainers would back down and realise they also need to help secure a good deal by accepting we are leaving and the focus now is all about the deal. Rather than do this, there is still a pretend game we can just reverse the whole thing while arguing that no one ever mentioned leaving the single market. tty deal in the hope we buckle, backdown and stay in.The more the EU looks across and see's people still talking about cancelling Brexit, the more they will join in by talking up a bad deal in the hope of encouraging such people.
Deptford Draylons said:
They will. What is sad though is that I was hoping after article 50 was triggered that those ardent Remainers would back down and realise they also need to help secure a good deal by accepting we are leaving and the focus now is all about the deal. Rather than do this, there is still a pretend game we can just reverse the whole thing while arguing that no one ever mentioned leaving the single market.
The more the EU looks across and see's people still talking about cancelling Brexit, the more they will join in by talking up a bad deal in the hope of encouraging such people.
So you think that by pointing out how crap brexit will be, the will of the people will chnange and it might be reversed? It is possible.The more the EU looks across and see's people still talking about cancelling Brexit, the more they will join in by talking up a bad deal in the hope of encouraging such people.
Remainers aren't making Davis look like a chump with his "no deal" crap - he's doing that all on his own.
Interesting he said to select committee last week that UK customs could be sorted in 18 months (nonsense), but french and belgian etc. another matter. No s
t.///ajd said:
Do you think flexciteers were fooling themselves? What makes you think your brexit is any less foolish than theirs? How many people were flexciteers?
You know it doesn't matter how many daft names/sub-categories you come up with, it won't change the result 
With the current EU stance of "no compromise on freedom of movement" then anyone even remotely saying that's what we should have is fooling themselves.
Personally I feel it would be possible for compromise here - for example, I'd be happy enough for like qualified EU citizens to be given priority for a definitive role over non-EU citizens. ("Role" would equal a proper, contributing job that cannot be satisfied from the current UK pool). But that would have to have some quid pro quo on trade.
However, the EU aren't budging. Yet.
Murph7355 said:
///ajd said:
Do you think flexciteers were fooling themselves? What makes you think your brexit is any less foolish than theirs? How many people were flexciteers?
You know it doesn't matter how many daft names/sub-categories you come up with, it won't change the result With the current EU stance of "no compromise on freedom of movement" then anyone even remotely saying that's what we should have is fooling themselves.
Personally I feel it would be possible for compromise here - for example, I'd be happy enough for like qualified EU citizens to be given priority for a definitive role over non-EU citizens. ("Role" would equal a proper, contributing job that cannot be satisfied from the current UK pool). But that would have to have some quid pro quo on trade.
However, the EU aren't budging. Yet.
Your last word suggests you think the EU might budge - which you say earlier people thinking that are fooling themselves.
Are you fooling yourself? Brexit gold.
Deptford Draylons said:
They will. What is sad though is that I was hoping after article 50 was triggered that those ardent Remainers would back down and realise they also need to help secure a good deal by accepting we are leaving and the focus now is all about the deal. Rather than do this, there is still a pretend game we can just reverse the whole thing while arguing that no one ever mentioned leaving the single market.
The more the EU looks across and see's people still talking about cancelling Brexit, the more they will join in by talking up a bad deal in the hope of encouraging such people.
I find this attitude really strange.The more the EU looks across and see's people still talking about cancelling Brexit, the more they will join in by talking up a bad deal in the hope of encouraging such people.
Millions of people are being forced out of the EU when they don't want to be, and believe it is bad for the UK. Why on earth should they suddenly change their beliefs?
If anything, it is the responsibility of the leavers to reasure and convince them that the UK is going to be OK.
Furthermore, in an effective democracy a strong opposition is a good thing to hold the Government to account. Shouldn't that work for Brexit or do leavers just want an easy ride now?
///ajd said:
Murph7355 said:
///ajd said:
Do you think flexciteers were fooling themselves? What makes you think your brexit is any less foolish than theirs? How many people were flexciteers?
You know it doesn't matter how many daft names/sub-categories you come up with, it won't change the result With the current EU stance of "no compromise on freedom of movement" then anyone even remotely saying that's what we should have is fooling themselves.
Personally I feel it would be possible for compromise here - for example, I'd be happy enough for like qualified EU citizens to be given priority for a definitive role over non-EU citizens. ("Role" would equal a proper, contributing job that cannot be satisfied from the current UK pool). But that would have to have some quid pro quo on trade.
However, the EU aren't budging. Yet.
Your last word suggests you think the EU might budge - which you say earlier people thinking that are fooling themselves.
Are you fooling yourself? Brexit gold.
Too many vultures circling not to.
PurpleMoonlight said:
I find this attitude really strange.
Millions of people are being forced out of the EU when they don't want to be, and believe it is bad for the UK. Why on earth should they suddenly change their beliefs?
If anything, it is the responsibility of the leavers to reasure and convince them that the UK is going to be OK.
Furthermore, in an effective democracy a strong opposition is a good thing to hold the Government to account. Shouldn't that work for Brexit or do leavers just want an easy ride now?
Don't you find it reassuring when the PH massive whoop about killing the EU and whizzing over the cliff with no deal?Millions of people are being forced out of the EU when they don't want to be, and believe it is bad for the UK. Why on earth should they suddenly change their beliefs?
If anything, it is the responsibility of the leavers to reasure and convince them that the UK is going to be OK.
Furthermore, in an effective democracy a strong opposition is a good thing to hold the Government to account. Shouldn't that work for Brexit or do leavers just want an easy ride now?
PurpleMoonlight said:
///ajd said:
Don't you find it reassuring when the PH massive whoop about killing the EU and whizzing over the cliff with no deal?
I hatred for the EU on PH is not a fair reflection of society in general I feel.In some parts of the country it's much worse.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Deptford Draylons said:
They will. What is sad though is that I was hoping after article 50 was triggered that those ardent Remainers would back down and realise they also need to help secure a good deal by accepting we are leaving and the focus now is all about the deal. Rather than do this, there is still a pretend game we can just reverse the whole thing while arguing that no one ever mentioned leaving the single market.
The more the EU looks across and see's people still talking about cancelling Brexit, the more they will join in by talking up a bad deal in the hope of encouraging such people.
I find this attitude really strange.The more the EU looks across and see's people still talking about cancelling Brexit, the more they will join in by talking up a bad deal in the hope of encouraging such people.
Millions of people are being forced out of the EU when they don't want to be, and believe it is bad for the UK. Why on earth should they suddenly change their beliefs?
If anything, it is the responsibility of the leavers to reasure and convince them that the UK is going to be OK.
Furthermore, in an effective democracy a strong opposition is a good thing to hold the Government to account. Shouldn't that work for Brexit or do leavers just want an easy ride now?
Deptford Draylons said:
I'm talking MP's, those that voted for a referendum to take place and then voted for article 50. The government has the right to set its course and leave the EU and SM. Trying to re-fight the whole referendum is just actively inviting the EU to offer a worse deal and create division in the slim hope that everyone is just somehow going to cancel Brexit and come running back to the EU. Not going to happen.
Pity the vanity of May ruined her advantage then.It's still the job of the opposition to hold the Government to account, and not simply rubber stamp everything it wants to do.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Pity the vanity of May ruined her advantage then.
It's still the job of the opposition to hold the Government to account, and not simply rubber stamp everything it wants to do.
Should be an interesting challenge for santa Corbyn.It's still the job of the opposition to hold the Government to account, and not simply rubber stamp everything it wants to do.
How far to question the govt without derailing the brexit process.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Deptford Draylons said:
I'm talking MP's, those that voted for a referendum to take place and then voted for article 50. The government has the right to set its course and leave the EU and SM. Trying to re-fight the whole referendum is just actively inviting the EU to offer a worse deal and create division in the slim hope that everyone is just somehow going to cancel Brexit and come running back to the EU. Not going to happen.
Pity the vanity of May ruined her advantage then.It's still the job of the opposition to hold the Government to account, and not simply rubber stamp everything it wants to do.
Deptford Draylons said:
Yep, but not to overturn Brexit. That is what many really want to happen, even if they have a hard time admitting it.
They can't do that because A50 has been triggered.They can only make the legislative process in the UK difficult. We will be out in 2 years even if our laws are not ready unless the rEU agree to postpone.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Deptford Draylons said:
Yep, but not to overturn Brexit. That is what many really want to happen, even if they have a hard time admitting it.
They can't do that because A50 has been triggered.They can only make the legislative process in the UK difficult. We will be out in 2 years even if our laws are not ready unless the rEU agree to postpone.
Deptford Draylons said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
Deptford Draylons said:
Yep, but not to overturn Brexit. That is what many really want to happen, even if they have a hard time admitting it.
They can't do that because A50 has been triggered.They can only make the legislative process in the UK difficult. We will be out in 2 years even if our laws are not ready unless the rEU agree to postpone.
It is not unreasonable to expect the brexit outcome to be subject to some scrutiny and accountability - and if its poo, then it should rightly be flushed down the toilet.
That's why so many hardcore brexiteers are so afraid of the outcome being subject to further democracy - they know their victory was snatched on the back of some flimsy lies that are unlikely to work in the same way today.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Deptford Draylons said:
Yep, but not to overturn Brexit. That is what many really want to happen, even if they have a hard time admitting it.
They can't do that because A50 has been triggered.They can only make the legislative process in the UK difficult. We will be out in 2 years even if our laws are not ready unless the rEU agree to postpone.
The reason the Lib Dems are going to do that is they want to scupper Brexit full stop.
The reason Labour are going to do this is to use the process to force another general election later this year.
What is right for the country wont enter into this, its going to be pure politics, if May cant hold her party together through this we will effectively have a vote of no confidence which will either force a change of leader, or a general election, or both.
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