CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 11)
Discussion
king hell 
isaldiri said:
A resurgence that is to a huge degree mitigated compared to spring and winter 2020 primarily due to the vaccinations? that, when it happens, would be a fairly reasonable outcome and one that we can probably live with going forward I'd suggest even if it disappoints some people that their seeming desperation to being locked down again doesn't come true.
I admire your optimism.JuanCarlosFandango said:
Interesting
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
Especially 32
The resurgence in both hospitalisations and deaths is dominated by those that have received two doses of the vaccine, comprising around 60% and 70% of the wave respectively. This can be attributed to the high levels of uptake in the most at-risk age groups, such that immunisation failures account for more serious illness than unvaccinated individuals.
Of course they go on to explain that dying with the vaccine is not the same as dying of the vaccine. What a foolish notion that would be!
Yes. But one might have thought that dear old Auntie and co in MSM would at least be interested in the facthttps://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
Especially 32
The resurgence in both hospitalisations and deaths is dominated by those that have received two doses of the vaccine, comprising around 60% and 70% of the wave respectively. This can be attributed to the high levels of uptake in the most at-risk age groups, such that immunisation failures account for more serious illness than unvaccinated individuals.
Of course they go on to explain that dying with the vaccine is not the same as dying of the vaccine. What a foolish notion that would be!
the majority of deaths - in fact the vast majority on a cohort size adjusted basis - are among the vaccinated.
Worthy of a mention perhaps.
No, keep up the long covid Booker Prize winning work of fiction
hyphen said:
Park run are doing the government research event 5k in Surrey. I got an email and thought why not.
Then read what they want me to do. Plus they want me to pay £15 for the privilege... nah, I'm alright ta
Other than confirming we live among willing bell-ends, what on earth would such a farce tell us? Then read what they want me to do. Plus they want me to pay £15 for the privilege... nah, I'm alright ta
Park run test event said:
Please note that you, and any spectators who come to watch you, will need to agree to and do the following in order to take part:? ?
Take a Covid-19 lateral flow test on Friday 14 May. You’ll be sent more details of how to order a home lateral flow test kit, or book a test at your local test centre, once you’ve signed up
Provide evidence that your lateral flow test was negative to gain entry to the event
Take pre- and post-event home PCR tests, carried out to inform the research. Further information on booking these tests will be sent to attendees prior to the event
Download the official NHS Test and Trace app on your phone ahead of arrival at the event
Wear a face covering before and after the event (subject to confirmation)
Complete a short post-event questionnaire?
Participants only: complete the Reunion 5K in less than 60 minutes
Take a Covid-19 lateral flow test on Friday 14 May. You’ll be sent more details of how to order a home lateral flow test kit, or book a test at your local test centre, once you’ve signed up
Provide evidence that your lateral flow test was negative to gain entry to the event
Take pre- and post-event home PCR tests, carried out to inform the research. Further information on booking these tests will be sent to attendees prior to the event
Download the official NHS Test and Trace app on your phone ahead of arrival at the event
Wear a face covering before and after the event (subject to confirmation)
Complete a short post-event questionnaire?
Participants only: complete the Reunion 5K in less than 60 minutes
hyphen said:
Park run are doing the government research event 5k in Surrey. I got an email and thought why not.
Then read what they want me to do. Plus they want me to pay £15 for the privilege... nah, I'm alright ta
Utterly nuts.Then read what they want me to do. Plus they want me to pay £15 for the privilege... nah, I'm alright ta
Park run test event said:
Please note that you, and any spectators who come to watch you, will need to agree to and do the following in order to take part:? ?
Take a Covid-19 lateral flow test on Friday 14 May. You’ll be sent more details of how to order a home lateral flow test kit, or book a test at your local test centre, once you’ve signed up
Provide evidence that your lateral flow test was negative to gain entry to the event
Take pre- and post-event home PCR tests, carried out to inform the research. Further information on booking these tests will be sent to attendees prior to the event
Download the official NHS Test and Trace app on your phone ahead of arrival at the event
Wear a face covering before and after the event (subject to confirmation)
Complete a short post-event questionnaire?
Participants only: complete the Reunion 5K in less than 60 minutes
Take a Covid-19 lateral flow test on Friday 14 May. You’ll be sent more details of how to order a home lateral flow test kit, or book a test at your local test centre, once you’ve signed up
Provide evidence that your lateral flow test was negative to gain entry to the event
Take pre- and post-event home PCR tests, carried out to inform the research. Further information on booking these tests will be sent to attendees prior to the event
Download the official NHS Test and Trace app on your phone ahead of arrival at the event
Wear a face covering before and after the event (subject to confirmation)
Complete a short post-event questionnaire?
Participants only: complete the Reunion 5K in less than 60 minutes
Or you could just go for a run. Around the same public park, starting 5 minutes before or after.
isaldiri said:
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Interesting
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
Especially 32
The resurgence in both hospitalisations and deaths is dominated by those that have received two doses of the vaccine, comprising around 60% and 70% of the wave respectively. This can be attributed to the high levels of uptake in the most at-risk age groups, such that immunisation failures account for more serious illness than unvaccinated individuals.
Of course they go on to explain that dying with the vaccine is not the same as dying of the vaccine. What a foolish notion that would be!
For goodness sake, did you actually read the pdf you quoted from or simply cutting out a part that you think proves something? https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
Especially 32
The resurgence in both hospitalisations and deaths is dominated by those that have received two doses of the vaccine, comprising around 60% and 70% of the wave respectively. This can be attributed to the high levels of uptake in the most at-risk age groups, such that immunisation failures account for more serious illness than unvaccinated individuals.
Of course they go on to explain that dying with the vaccine is not the same as dying of the vaccine. What a foolish notion that would be!
Those are not deaths of the vaccine or even with. It's modelling of people who might die if the virus makes a resurgence later. Vaccinated (older) people are still overwhelmingly going to make up that group.
The interesting bit from that government roadmaps is they expect social distancing and other measures to continue. The "almost certain to save lives", is oh so assertive.
So err that roadmap report is not expecting "normality" from autumn onwards.
paulw123 said:
Bit in the news about the ‘free’ tests available on the NHS. Anyone taking 2 LF tests a week with no symptoms deserves a slap.
I would agree with you. However, in order for my wife to see her mum who is in a care home ( and hadn’t seen her since September) she has to have a PCR and a LFT every week.I could be tested twice a week for some volunteer driving that I do but have declined to do so. The day it becomes compulsory, that will be day that I stop volunteering!
gumshoe said:
It is the modelling for the expected path along this roadmap. They expect that it is highly likely (and unless you have been asleep, it really means we're being readied for it) there to be a next wave, and that the next wave will kill a bunch of people, 70% of which have already been vaccinated. Ergo, they expect some people to die irrespective, and it is expected to be the elderly and incredibly frail for whom society has fought with a heavy toll to keep alive for another x months but even the vaccine won't be able to help as they are likely on their way out and a fall let alone covid would take them out.
The interesting bit from that government roadmaps is they expect social distancing and other measures to continue. The "almost certain to save lives", is oh so assertive.
So err that roadmap report is not expecting "normality" from autumn onwards.
So? The interesting bit from that government roadmaps is they expect social distancing and other measures to continue. The "almost certain to save lives", is oh so assertive.
So err that roadmap report is not expecting "normality" from autumn onwards.
it's not just highly likely a further wave will happen. It's pretty much guaranteed. And one after that at some point. That also means some people will die.
The probability of that further wave however seriously threatening healthcare/critical capacity or cause large numbers of excess deaths is very greatly reduced now. Unlike some I'm not quite so desperate to be locked up again such that I'm desperately wishing it happens again so until or unless it can be shown that hospital/icu capacity is going to be under pressure to a significant fraction of what was seen in Jan 2021, I'm not quite as convinced as some about what is going to happen in future.
Ethical psychotherapy versus the unethical applied psychology of SPI-B and the UK Government
https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/ethical-psychothe...
https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/ethical-psychothe...
isaldiri said:
gumshoe said:
It is the modelling for the expected path along this roadmap. They expect that it is highly likely (and unless you have been asleep, it really means we're being readied for it) there to be a next wave, and that the next wave will kill a bunch of people, 70% of which have already been vaccinated. Ergo, they expect some people to die irrespective, and it is expected to be the elderly and incredibly frail for whom society has fought with a heavy toll to keep alive for another x months but even the vaccine won't be able to help as they are likely on their way out and a fall let alone covid would take them out.
The interesting bit from that government roadmaps is they expect social distancing and other measures to continue. The "almost certain to save lives", is oh so assertive.
So err that roadmap report is not expecting "normality" from autumn onwards.
So? The interesting bit from that government roadmaps is they expect social distancing and other measures to continue. The "almost certain to save lives", is oh so assertive.
So err that roadmap report is not expecting "normality" from autumn onwards.
it's not just highly likely a further wave will happen. It's pretty much guaranteed. And one after that at some point. That also means some people will die.
The probability of that further wave however seriously threatening healthcare/critical capacity or cause large numbers of excess deaths is very greatly reduced now. Unlike some I'm not quite so desperate to be locked up again such that I'm desperately wishing it happens again so until or unless it can be shown that hospital/icu capacity is going to be under pressure to a significant fraction of what was seen in Jan 2021, I'm not quite as convinced as some about what is going to happen in future.
However, you're quoting my post and mentioning lockdowns, I never mentioned lockdowns, so maybe that's your own angst at the situation hijacking your comprehension of my text above. It certainly is not what I wrote.
I personally think anyone who has watched the actions of this government over the last 12 months can without guilt be suspicious of their intentions.
It would be deaf to the message being relayed by the modelling report if one ignored the fact that they will seek to justify further "interventions". My point was the expectation is clear that "interventions" will continue or be ressurected near the end of this year.
gumshoe said:
Who is wishing for it to happen? I haven't read one person say that here, but you're convinced they have and you're on here more than me so maybe you have.
However, you're quoting my post and mentioning lockdowns, I never mentioned lockdowns, so maybe that's your own angst at the situation hijacking your comprehension of my text above. It certainly is not what I wrote.
I personally think anyone who has watched the actions of this government over the last 12 months can without guilt be suspicious of their intentions.
It would be deaf to the message being relayed by the modelling report if one ignored the fact that they will seek to justify further "interventions". My point was the expectation is clear that "interventions" will continue or be ressurected near the end of this year.
And maybe it is your angst at the situation that seems to prevent you from getting the main point of my earlier post. However, you're quoting my post and mentioning lockdowns, I never mentioned lockdowns, so maybe that's your own angst at the situation hijacking your comprehension of my text above. It certainly is not what I wrote.
I personally think anyone who has watched the actions of this government over the last 12 months can without guilt be suspicious of their intentions.
It would be deaf to the message being relayed by the modelling report if one ignored the fact that they will seek to justify further "interventions". My point was the expectation is clear that "interventions" will continue or be ressurected near the end of this year.
""The probability of that further wave however seriously threatening healthcare/critical capacity or cause large numbers of excess deaths is very greatly reduced now""
Any further "interventions" are not going to be anything on the scale of what we have seen over the past year as a direct result of the impact of all the vaccinations and such. I likewise think anyone who has watched the actions of the government over the last 12 months can think they are also a complete bunch of lying tossers without needing to go to extremes of believing some of the stuff that has been bandied about the thread regularly either.
isaldiri said:
gumshoe said:
Who is wishing for it to happen? I haven't read one person say that here, but you're convinced they have and you're on here more than me so maybe you have.
However, you're quoting my post and mentioning lockdowns, I never mentioned lockdowns, so maybe that's your own angst at the situation hijacking your comprehension of my text above. It certainly is not what I wrote.
I personally think anyone who has watched the actions of this government over the last 12 months can without guilt be suspicious of their intentions.
It would be deaf to the message being relayed by the modelling report if one ignored the fact that they will seek to justify further "interventions". My point was the expectation is clear that "interventions" will continue or be ressurected near the end of this year.
And maybe it is your angst at the situation that seems to prevent you from getting the main point of my earlier post. However, you're quoting my post and mentioning lockdowns, I never mentioned lockdowns, so maybe that's your own angst at the situation hijacking your comprehension of my text above. It certainly is not what I wrote.
I personally think anyone who has watched the actions of this government over the last 12 months can without guilt be suspicious of their intentions.
It would be deaf to the message being relayed by the modelling report if one ignored the fact that they will seek to justify further "interventions". My point was the expectation is clear that "interventions" will continue or be ressurected near the end of this year.
""The probability of that further wave however seriously threatening healthcare/critical capacity or cause large numbers of excess deaths is very greatly reduced now""
Any further "interventions" are not going to be anything on the scale of what we have seen over the past year as a direct result of the impact of all the vaccinations and such. I likewise think anyone who has watched the actions of the government over the last 12 months can think they are also a complete bunch of lying tossers without needing to go to extremes of believing some of the stuff that has been bandied about the thread regularly either.
If they are going to open everything without restrictions from June 21st, and keep it all open come what may this winter, they might just as well have reopened on April 1st. There's a reason for the delay. There must be. Unless Boris "pile 'em up high" is really going to save every covid life possible, even if that comes with the fallout of a greater amount of unnecessary other deaths. Which, politically, makes no sense
On a slightly different note everyone's "favourite" E list celeb comedian is moaning on twitter about the wrong type of demonstrations.
https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/138632716418...
Just over a month apart too.
https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/138632716418...
Just over a month apart too.
Harrison Bergeron said:
On a slightly different note everyone's "favourite" E list celeb comedian is moaning on twitter about the wrong type of demonstrations.
https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/138632716418...
Just over a month apart too.
Little Sue betrays the ease with which she is manipulated! https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/138632716418...
Just over a month apart too.
johnboy1975 said:
isaldiri said:
gumshoe said:
Who is wishing for it to happen? I haven't read one person say that here, but you're convinced they have and you're on here more than me so maybe you have.
However, you're quoting my post and mentioning lockdowns, I never mentioned lockdowns, so maybe that's your own angst at the situation hijacking your comprehension of my text above. It certainly is not what I wrote.
I personally think anyone who has watched the actions of this government over the last 12 months can without guilt be suspicious of their intentions.
It would be deaf to the message being relayed by the modelling report if one ignored the fact that they will seek to justify further "interventions". My point was the expectation is clear that "interventions" will continue or be ressurected near the end of this year.
And maybe it is your angst at the situation that seems to prevent you from getting the main point of my earlier post. However, you're quoting my post and mentioning lockdowns, I never mentioned lockdowns, so maybe that's your own angst at the situation hijacking your comprehension of my text above. It certainly is not what I wrote.
I personally think anyone who has watched the actions of this government over the last 12 months can without guilt be suspicious of their intentions.
It would be deaf to the message being relayed by the modelling report if one ignored the fact that they will seek to justify further "interventions". My point was the expectation is clear that "interventions" will continue or be ressurected near the end of this year.
""The probability of that further wave however seriously threatening healthcare/critical capacity or cause large numbers of excess deaths is very greatly reduced now""
Any further "interventions" are not going to be anything on the scale of what we have seen over the past year as a direct result of the impact of all the vaccinations and such. I likewise think anyone who has watched the actions of the government over the last 12 months can think they are also a complete bunch of lying tossers without needing to go to extremes of believing some of the stuff that has been bandied about the thread regularly either.
If they are going to open everything without restrictions from June 21st, and keep it all open come what may this winter, they might just as well have reopened on April 1st. There's a reason for the delay. There must be. Unless Boris "pile 'em up high" is really going to save every covid life possible, even if that comes with the fallout of a greater amount of unnecessary other deaths. Which, politically, makes no sense
Expect more conferences ASAP
Harrison Bergeron said:
On a slightly different note everyone's "favourite" E list celeb comedian is moaning on twitter about the wrong type of demonstrations.
https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/138632716418...
Just over a month apart too.
Wtf is Chris Rose? https://twitter.com/ArchRose90/status/138632716418...
Just over a month apart too.
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