45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. (Vol 6)
Discussion
Byker28i said:
I don't think searching for words helps.
What we have is 108 pages of how Putin used the Oligarchs to reach out to the trump campaign, who multiple times said yes give us that assistance.
...snip
Yeah I was probably a bit harsh as Mueller has done some sterling work, possibly because I'm used to maths related papers which tend to be quite strict about the application of scientific method. EG, if I was investigating collusion between a light switch and a light bulb it would not be enough for me to say there is a connection between the two, I would need to expand my investigation to include the power source and the force traveling along the wires before I could credibly start to explain how the collusion functions.What we have is 108 pages of how Putin used the Oligarchs to reach out to the trump campaign, who multiple times said yes give us that assistance.
...snip
Mueller has done a great job of connecting the Russian switch to the American bulb and much has been brought to light by doing this, however Russia's motive force and the means by which it is applied is outside Mueller's remit therefore the report falls short of what I would consider proper application of the scientific method.
The fololowing are examples of the sort of questions required to answer what collusion is, why collusion happened and other questions that any scientist would have had at the top of their paper if they were asked to investigate collusion between two entities:
Russia's often stated foreign policy goals are likely to be primary motivating factors in any collusion event so what are these goals and how does supporting the Trump campaign help bring them about?
Trump's actions regarding sanctions, his demeanor at Helsinki and general subservience to Putin merit the question 'How important is Russian money to the Trump Organisation and what damage would it do to him if that money were withdrawn?'
I get that lawyers and lawmakers have their own strictures that I lack the experience to understand and that I'm largely just getting annoyed that the world doesn't work in the way I think it should, which is always an exercise in futility and arrogance. I do however remain a firm believer in the scientific method and think that in the case of Trump and Russia its application would be helpful.
Wrathalanche said:
I think Barr's press conference is going to go down as a bit of a historical gaffe. It was nothing but spin, and when faced with questions from the assembled press, he would say "you'll need to read the report"..... why the hell throw a press conference on the subject then?!
Combined with the fact that what is presented in the report very clearly goes well beyond how he characterised it, I think his credibility in congress will be shockingly poor.
Barr is confirming the view point he was bought in to shield Trump. Especially when you look at the sentence Mueller wrote in the report, and what actually Barr quoted. Decided to leave out the Russia did want a Trump presidency.Combined with the fact that what is presented in the report very clearly goes well beyond how he characterised it, I think his credibility in congress will be shockingly poor.
Setting the narrative for Trump to start his claims
hidetheelephants said:
Given the deutsche bank subpoena that is being argued over isn't the 'follow the money' bit of the investigation in play elsewhere? Mueller seems to have made a point of spreading the joy to a wide array of state-level prosecutors, presumably for the purpose of preventing any one failure shutting things down and to ensure that he stood a chance of getting his report out well before the 2020 primaries.
The media need to give their collective heads a wobble; this s
t belongs on farcegramchat and sad internetz backwaters like here, not on the 6pm bulletin. It's a fking meme, not news.
As per my reply to Byker I'm mostly just being grumpy because I'm not used to reading legal documents and find the experience a bit jarring compared to the papers I usually read. Guess we'll have to wait and see what the oversight and other committees turn up.The media need to give their collective heads a wobble; this s
t belongs on farcegramchat and sad internetz backwaters like here, not on the 6pm bulletin. It's a fking meme, not news.Ructions said:
Byker28i said:
he's really not enjoying his easter break, today he was at Trump International Golf Club in West Palm Beach, FL.
It's not a Presidency, it's a Kleptocracy.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tpvxsJAZPk
paulguitar said:
Yes indeed, it seems that this is really the start of things, rather than the end. Mueller wrote this:
"Congress may apply the obstruction laws to the President's corrupt exercise of the powers of office accords with our constitutional system of checks and balances and the principle that no person is above the law."
This. "Congress may apply the obstruction laws to the President's corrupt exercise of the powers of office accords with our constitutional system of checks and balances and the principle that no person is above the law."
I have spent the best part of the last couple of years wondering why it’s taken so long to reach this (individual) conclusion. Trumps obstruction was, to me, in plain sight. It was there in his tweets, in his interviews. Offering pardons to prospective witnesses not to testify/bend the truth? How f
king obvious does it have to be?The man is unfit to be the president. I have not capitalised the ‘p’ as he has removed ALL the importance of the role. He seems to have turned the position into that of a mafia don, and I have said before I think he’s disappointed he wasn’t born a Gambino or Genovese.
It was a very sad day for America when he was elected, and it has gone downhill since.
And as for the AG with his embarrassing sycophantic statements, I give up I really do.
Seventy said:
paulguitar said:
Yes indeed, it seems that this is really the start of things, rather than the end. Mueller wrote this:
"Congress may apply the obstruction laws to the President's corrupt exercise of the powers of office accords with our constitutional system of checks and balances and the principle that no person is above the law."
This. "Congress may apply the obstruction laws to the President's corrupt exercise of the powers of office accords with our constitutional system of checks and balances and the principle that no person is above the law."
I have spent the best part of the last couple of years wondering why it’s taken so long to reach this (individual) conclusion. Trumps obstruction was, to me, in plain sight. It was there in his tweets, in his interviews. Offering pardons to prospective witnesses not to testify/bend the truth? How f
king obvious does it have to be?The man is unfit to be the president. I have not capitalised the ‘p’ as he has removed ALL the importance of the role. He seems to have turned the position into that of a mafia don, and I have said before I think he’s disappointed he wasn’t born a Gambino or Genovese.
It was a very sad day for America when he was elected, and it has gone downhill since.
And as for the AG with his embarrassing sycophantic statements, I give up I really do.
Trump is very much like a pig on a truffle hunt. He doesn't particularly care what he smashes, or covers in faeces as he hurtles around as long as he gets the adulation he craves. It's those that are guiding him from behind that are the real culprits.
This is a step up:
Elizabeth Warren said:
The Mueller report lays out facts showing that a hostile foreign government attacked our 2016 election to help Donald Trump and Donald Trump welcomed that help. Once elected, Donald Trump obstructed the investigation into that attack.
Mueller put the next step in the hands of Congress: “Congress has authority to prohibit a President’s corrupt use of his authority in order to protect the integrity of the administration of justice.” The correct process for exercising that authority is impeachment.
To ignore a President’s repeated efforts to obstruct an investigation into his own disloyal behavior would inflict great and lasting damage on this country, and it would suggest that both the current and future Presidents would be free to abuse their power in similar ways.
The severity of this misconduct demands that elected officials in both parties set aside political considerations and do their constitutional duty. That means the House should initiate impeachment proceedings against the President of the United States.
Not betting on it coming to anything much though.Mueller put the next step in the hands of Congress: “Congress has authority to prohibit a President’s corrupt use of his authority in order to protect the integrity of the administration of justice.” The correct process for exercising that authority is impeachment.
To ignore a President’s repeated efforts to obstruct an investigation into his own disloyal behavior would inflict great and lasting damage on this country, and it would suggest that both the current and future Presidents would be free to abuse their power in similar ways.
The severity of this misconduct demands that elected officials in both parties set aside political considerations and do their constitutional duty. That means the House should initiate impeachment proceedings against the President of the United States.
minimoog said:
This is a step up:
Nope. Because;Elizabeth Warren said:
The Mueller report lays out facts showing that a hostile foreign government attacked our 2016 election to help Donald Trump and Donald Trump welcomed that help. Once elected, Donald Trump obstructed the investigation into that attack.
Mueller put the next step in the hands of Congress: “Congress has authority to prohibit a President’s corrupt use of his authority in order to protect the integrity of the administration of justice.” The correct process for exercising that authority is impeachment.
To ignore a President’s repeated efforts to obstruct an investigation into his own disloyal behavior would inflict great and lasting damage on this country, and it would suggest that both the current and future Presidents would be free to abuse their power in similar ways.
The severity of this misconduct demands that elected officials in both parties set aside political considerations and do their constitutional duty. That means the House should initiate impeachment proceedings against the President of the United States.
Not betting on it coming to anything much though.Mueller put the next step in the hands of Congress: “Congress has authority to prohibit a President’s corrupt use of his authority in order to protect the integrity of the administration of justice.” The correct process for exercising that authority is impeachment.
To ignore a President’s repeated efforts to obstruct an investigation into his own disloyal behavior would inflict great and lasting damage on this country, and it would suggest that both the current and future Presidents would be free to abuse their power in similar ways.
The severity of this misconduct demands that elected officials in both parties set aside political considerations and do their constitutional duty. That means the House should initiate impeachment proceedings against the President of the United States.
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