Bring Back Winkie?
Discussion
Globs said:
I think we are in fairly good disagreement TBH!
We need to be cautious and get out while we still can.
Have you read the next step in the pipeline for us?
http://www.stevebaker.info/2011/10/the-horror-of-t...
Study it and then think about being cautious.
Yes, I've seen it and it is ridiculous. That thing is not good at all.We need to be cautious and get out while we still can.
Have you read the next step in the pipeline for us?
http://www.stevebaker.info/2011/10/the-horror-of-t...
Study it and then think about being cautious.
However, when you say this is "in the pipeline for us" , it isn't directly unless we were to join the EZ; but as he says, you wouldn't really want to live next door to it either.
We need to look at nailed on facts with all this stuff, ditch the hysteria & make rational decisions. There will not be a 100% perfect/ideal outcome, we just have to find the best one available & I'm far from convinced anybody knows what that is yet. In the end I also don't really mind what it is (specifically in the context of being in or out of the EU) as long as its the best result we can get.
Edited by IainZ on Monday 21st November 09:03
Globs said:
bigdog3 said:
Didn't recognise FED
Sorry - FED = Federal Reserve, should have been 'Fed.' !IainZ said:
All this "we need to leave and we need to leave now!!" b
ks is just reactionary , UKIP bandwagon jumping & opportunistic rhetoric. TBH It achieves little
Of course it's reactionary - it's a reaction against the theft of money and liberty by the EU.ks is just reactionary , UKIP bandwagon jumping & opportunistic rhetoric. TBH It achieves littleWhat do you expect people to do, give these arrogant greedy s
ts donations now?UKIP is fast becoming a bandwagon, and it's achieving quite a bit now thanks, people are reacting to the threat from the EU and their EMS horror and fast realising that UKIP is the only voice of sanity in the UK.
Not the only one in europe, you'll find around the EU now anti-EU parties gaining massive support, for instance the Austrian Freedom Party are now level pegging in the polls with the ruling socialists. As enough people switch away from the EU the main parties with their faces firmly in the EU trough are going to look rather stupid clinging to the monster come the elections.
I also notice the Spanish socialists got crushed in todays election. People are waking up to the cancer known as socialism.
Globs said:
IainZ said:
I don't think we are in violent disagreement as to the situation - but as above, I'm just inclined to be a bit more cautious as to how we deal with it.
I think we are in fairly good disagreement TBH!We need to be cautious and get out while we still can.
Have you read the next step in the pipeline for us?
http://www.stevebaker.info/2011/10/the-horror-of-t...
Study it and then think about being cautious.
Looks like an MP being a bit disingenuous... How unusual.
Mr Snap said:
0a said:
Mr Snap said:
Cameron wants Merkel to buy up bonds, using the ECB, which she won't do because it'll cause German inflation (which the German's have a 'slight' aversion to - please refer to 'causes of WW2'). But, if they don't, we're all basically fked. Merkel, essentially, wants a Tobin tax - meaning she wants the city to pay for the Eurozone crisis.
Winkie, on the other hand, did actually turn up for a scrap. He persuaded the Americans and the rest, to support the banks. Even right wing commentators have admitted he pulled off an amazing coup on that ocassion and that, in future, we'll begin to realise what he achieved. However much you may have hated him, he won one of the most important arguments of the century. CMD may have the right answer, but he hasn't got the cojones to win the argument.
If he doesn't pull his finger out, we're going to get stitched up by Merkel and the other members of the Eurozone. We're going to end up as second rate members of Europe, but at the same time paying for their mistakes.
That's receiving a fking good kicking in my books...
I suspect it's all positioning by Merkel trying to make herself look hard headed before the inevitable bond buying begins. It means she can wring as many reforms as possible out of other Euro countries (2 PM scalps to her so far), and ultimately when bond buying starts she can blame the damned UK for it. I can already see the headlines about those Bloody Brits selfishly tanking the Euro. ked. Merkel, essentially, wants a Tobin tax - meaning she wants the city to pay for the Eurozone crisis.Winkie, on the other hand, did actually turn up for a scrap. He persuaded the Americans and the rest, to support the banks. Even right wing commentators have admitted he pulled off an amazing coup on that ocassion and that, in future, we'll begin to realise what he achieved. However much you may have hated him, he won one of the most important arguments of the century. CMD may have the right answer, but he hasn't got the cojones to win the argument.
If he doesn't pull his finger out, we're going to get stitched up by Merkel and the other members of the Eurozone. We're going to end up as second rate members of Europe, but at the same time paying for their mistakes.
That's receiving a f
king good kicking in my books... Cameron is but a pawn in her game of national politics. He won’t get anything out of it at all.
But, who have we got now, who she wouldn't simply swat?
Is there anyone, on either front bench, who's remotely up to the job?
As it was CMD didnt do half bad, gave nothing away and maintain the status quo...which right now is the *best* that the UK can do. It aint good, hell no, but following our own austerity plans, our own economic plans, along an independant path to mainland Europe is the best thing Britain can do right now.
Mr Snap said:
Interesting. But, according to the paper shown at the top end, this doesn't apply to the UK but to the Eurozone.
Looks like an MP being a bit disingenuous... How unusual.
Looks like an MP being a bit disingenuous... How unusual.
ESM Treaty said:
(5) All euro area Member States will become ESM Members. As a consequence of joining the
euro area, a Member State of the European Union should become an ESM Member with full
rights and obligations, in line with those of the Contracting Parties.
:
(7) Member States of the European Union whose currency is not the euro ("non euro area
Member States") participating on an ad hoc basis alongside the ESM in a financial assistance
operation for euro area Member States will be invited to participate, as observers, in the ESM
meetings when this financial assistance and its monitoring will be discussed. They will have
access to all information in a timely manner and be properly consulted
It's there in black and white Snap, nothing hidden.euro area, a Member State of the European Union should become an ESM Member with full
rights and obligations, in line with those of the Contracting Parties.
:
(7) Member States of the European Union whose currency is not the euro ("non euro area
Member States") participating on an ad hoc basis alongside the ESM in a financial assistance
operation for euro area Member States will be invited to participate, as observers, in the ESM
meetings when this financial assistance and its monitoring will be discussed. They will have
access to all information in a timely manner and be properly consulted
Steve Baker (MP) is pointing out he doesn't like the tone and the wording - the total unaccountability and lack of recourse. As neighbours this affects us, and as the europhiles are desperate for us to join the Euro it would affect us directly if we joined - with a total loss of sovereignty over our economic outlook.
It's no more threatening that Hitler's army - I guess the total surrender of europe to a undemocratic entity doesn't bother you then?
I guess you are a LibDem(sic)?
DJRC said:
Mr Snap said:
0a said:
Mr Snap said:
Cameron wants Merkel to buy up bonds, using the ECB, which she won't do because it'll cause German inflation (which the German's have a 'slight' aversion to - please refer to 'causes of WW2'). But, if they don't, we're all basically fked. Merkel, essentially, wants a Tobin tax - meaning she wants the city to pay for the Eurozone crisis.
Winkie, on the other hand, did actually turn up for a scrap. He persuaded the Americans and the rest, to support the banks. Even right wing commentators have admitted he pulled off an amazing coup on that ocassion and that, in future, we'll begin to realise what he achieved. However much you may have hated him, he won one of the most important arguments of the century. CMD may have the right answer, but he hasn't got the cojones to win the argument.
If he doesn't pull his finger out, we're going to get stitched up by Merkel and the other members of the Eurozone. We're going to end up as second rate members of Europe, but at the same time paying for their mistakes.
That's receiving a fking good kicking in my books...
I suspect it's all positioning by Merkel trying to make herself look hard headed before the inevitable bond buying begins. It means she can wring as many reforms as possible out of other Euro countries (2 PM scalps to her so far), and ultimately when bond buying starts she can blame the damned UK for it. I can already see the headlines about those Bloody Brits selfishly tanking the Euro. ked. Merkel, essentially, wants a Tobin tax - meaning she wants the city to pay for the Eurozone crisis.Winkie, on the other hand, did actually turn up for a scrap. He persuaded the Americans and the rest, to support the banks. Even right wing commentators have admitted he pulled off an amazing coup on that ocassion and that, in future, we'll begin to realise what he achieved. However much you may have hated him, he won one of the most important arguments of the century. CMD may have the right answer, but he hasn't got the cojones to win the argument.
If he doesn't pull his finger out, we're going to get stitched up by Merkel and the other members of the Eurozone. We're going to end up as second rate members of Europe, but at the same time paying for their mistakes.
That's receiving a f
king good kicking in my books... Cameron is but a pawn in her game of national politics. He won’t get anything out of it at all.
But, who have we got now, who she wouldn't simply swat?
Is there anyone, on either front bench, who's remotely up to the job?
As it was CMD didnt do half bad, gave nothing away and maintain the status quo...which right now is the *best* that the UK can do. It aint good, hell no, but following our own austerity plans, our own economic plans, along an independant path to mainland Europe is the best thing Britain can do right now.
CMD - giving nothing away doesn't require much effort, but it's not an achievement. We need someone who has the force to persuade the Germans that they have to refloat the Euro themselves, whether they like it or not. I can't see anyone on either front bench capable of the job.
Mr Snap said:
DJRC said:
Mr Snap said:
0a said:
Mr Snap said:
Cameron wants Merkel to buy up bonds, using the ECB, which she won't do because it'll cause German inflation (which the German's have a 'slight' aversion to - please refer to 'causes of WW2'). But, if they don't, we're all basically fked. Merkel, essentially, wants a Tobin tax - meaning she wants the city to pay for the Eurozone crisis.
Winkie, on the other hand, did actually turn up for a scrap. He persuaded the Americans and the rest, to support the banks. Even right wing commentators have admitted he pulled off an amazing coup on that ocassion and that, in future, we'll begin to realise what he achieved. However much you may have hated him, he won one of the most important arguments of the century. CMD may have the right answer, but he hasn't got the cojones to win the argument.
If he doesn't pull his finger out, we're going to get stitched up by Merkel and the other members of the Eurozone. We're going to end up as second rate members of Europe, but at the same time paying for their mistakes.
That's receiving a fking good kicking in my books...
I suspect it's all positioning by Merkel trying to make herself look hard headed before the inevitable bond buying begins. It means she can wring as many reforms as possible out of other Euro countries (2 PM scalps to her so far), and ultimately when bond buying starts she can blame the damned UK for it. I can already see the headlines about those Bloody Brits selfishly tanking the Euro. ked. Merkel, essentially, wants a Tobin tax - meaning she wants the city to pay for the Eurozone crisis.Winkie, on the other hand, did actually turn up for a scrap. He persuaded the Americans and the rest, to support the banks. Even right wing commentators have admitted he pulled off an amazing coup on that ocassion and that, in future, we'll begin to realise what he achieved. However much you may have hated him, he won one of the most important arguments of the century. CMD may have the right answer, but he hasn't got the cojones to win the argument.
If he doesn't pull his finger out, we're going to get stitched up by Merkel and the other members of the Eurozone. We're going to end up as second rate members of Europe, but at the same time paying for their mistakes.
That's receiving a f
king good kicking in my books... Cameron is but a pawn in her game of national politics. He won’t get anything out of it at all.
But, who have we got now, who she wouldn't simply swat?
Is there anyone, on either front bench, who's remotely up to the job?
As it was CMD didnt do half bad, gave nothing away and maintain the status quo...which right now is the *best* that the UK can do. It aint good, hell no, but following our own austerity plans, our own economic plans, along an independant path to mainland Europe is the best thing Britain can do right now.
CMD - giving nothing away doesn't require much effort, but it's not an achievement. We need someone who has the force to persuade the Germans that they have to refloat the Euro themselves, whether they like it or not. I can't see anyone on either front bench capable of the job.
Actually giving nothing away is an achievement. Germany in the shape of The Frau would like nothing better to draw Britain into this or hit London with taxes, either way so long as she gets more money out of the Britain. Resisting that right now should be the headline item in British foreign policy.
You also thoroughly misunderstand both German politics and European politics. Merkel cannot do anything involving giving more Germany money away. Her Parliament will not back her to do that, she no longer has the political capital at home. She used the last of it up in the last vote which was just to expand the size of the Stability fund *in theory* but not how to fund it. Next year she is already unlikely to win the election because of the money given away by Germany so far and she is under every last % of pressure that Mr Bruni can bring to bear to ensure she does not deviate from the current path because the French economy is staring down the gun barrel.
There is not a damn thing anybody in the UK could say to The Frau that would shift her in any way shape or form from her current position, because she cant move.
Mr Snap said:
I disagree, even Peter Oborn, the right wing Telegraph commentator, said that he was a force to be reckoned with - a flawed man, who made awful mistakes, but a formidable operator who got things right when it really mattered.
Yes, signing the Lisbon Treaty in virtual secrecy and backing out of a referendum was a masterstroke.Perhaps you could give us some other examples of him getting things right when it really mattered? Not joining the Euro, you say? Down to his own control freakery I'm afraid. He'd hankered after the CoE job so long he was buggered if he was going to give away the power.
He did however - virtually - give away our gold reserves, another example of getting it right I assume? He was interviewed just before the last GE and questioned about his acumen in the decision. He smuggly stated he'd used the receipts to purchase Euro denominated assets and these had greatly risen in value. The stupid gurning t
t sat there not realising the only reason the Euro assets had risen was because his hopeless spendthrift policies had sent the value of Sterling down the tubes. Sadly the interviewer was similarly too stupid to spot the flaw in his grand plan... Andy Zarse said:
Mr Snap said:
I disagree, even Peter Oborn, the right wing Telegraph commentator, said that he was a force to be reckoned with - a flawed man, who made awful mistakes, but a formidable operator who got things right when it really mattered.
Yes, signing the Lisbon Treaty in virtual secrecy and backing out of a referendum was a masterstroke.Perhaps you could give us some other examples of him getting things right when it really mattered?
And then there was the illegal deal that broke Lloyds TSB, a formerly competent bank, to do the socialist thing of spreading the pain, and making sure his scottish banking chums got their(our) money.
DJRC said:
Mr Snap said:
DJRC said:
Mr Snap said:
0a said:
Mr Snap said:
Cameron wants Merkel to buy up bonds, using the ECB, which she won't do because it'll cause German inflation (which the German's have a 'slight' aversion to - please refer to 'causes of WW2'). But, if they don't, we're all basically fked. Merkel, essentially, wants a Tobin tax - meaning she wants the city to pay for the Eurozone crisis.
Winkie, on the other hand, did actually turn up for a scrap. He persuaded the Americans and the rest, to support the banks. Even right wing commentators have admitted he pulled off an amazing coup on that ocassion and that, in future, we'll begin to realise what he achieved. However much you may have hated him, he won one of the most important arguments of the century. CMD may have the right answer, but he hasn't got the cojones to win the argument.
If he doesn't pull his finger out, we're going to get stitched up by Merkel and the other members of the Eurozone. We're going to end up as second rate members of Europe, but at the same time paying for their mistakes.
That's receiving a fking good kicking in my books...
I suspect it's all positioning by Merkel trying to make herself look hard headed before the inevitable bond buying begins. It means she can wring as many reforms as possible out of other Euro countries (2 PM scalps to her so far), and ultimately when bond buying starts she can blame the damned UK for it. I can already see the headlines about those Bloody Brits selfishly tanking the Euro. ked. Merkel, essentially, wants a Tobin tax - meaning she wants the city to pay for the Eurozone crisis.Winkie, on the other hand, did actually turn up for a scrap. He persuaded the Americans and the rest, to support the banks. Even right wing commentators have admitted he pulled off an amazing coup on that ocassion and that, in future, we'll begin to realise what he achieved. However much you may have hated him, he won one of the most important arguments of the century. CMD may have the right answer, but he hasn't got the cojones to win the argument.
If he doesn't pull his finger out, we're going to get stitched up by Merkel and the other members of the Eurozone. We're going to end up as second rate members of Europe, but at the same time paying for their mistakes.
That's receiving a f
king good kicking in my books... Cameron is but a pawn in her game of national politics. He won’t get anything out of it at all.
But, who have we got now, who she wouldn't simply swat?
Is there anyone, on either front bench, who's remotely up to the job?
As it was CMD didnt do half bad, gave nothing away and maintain the status quo...which right now is the *best* that the UK can do. It aint good, hell no, but following our own austerity plans, our own economic plans, along an independant path to mainland Europe is the best thing Britain can do right now.
CMD - giving nothing away doesn't require much effort, but it's not an achievement. We need someone who has the force to persuade the Germans that they have to refloat the Euro themselves, whether they like it or not. I can't see anyone on either front bench capable of the job.
Actually giving nothing away is an achievement. Germany in the shape of The Frau would like nothing better to draw Britain into this or hit London with taxes, either way so long as she gets more money out of the Britain. Resisting that right now should be the headline item in British foreign policy.
You also thoroughly misunderstand both German politics and European politics. Merkel cannot do anything involving giving more Germany money away. Her Parliament will not back her to do that, she no longer has the political capital at home. She used the last of it up in the last vote which was just to expand the size of the Stability fund *in theory* but not how to fund it. Next year she is already unlikely to win the election because of the money given away by Germany so far and she is under every last % of pressure that Mr Bruni can bring to bear to ensure she does not deviate from the current path because the French economy is staring down the gun barrel.
There is not a damn thing anybody in the UK could say to The Frau that would shift her in any way shape or form from her current position, because she cant move.
I don't disagree with you regarding Merkel's position vis a vis the German parliament. The point is, that this position needs to be overturned. The Germans wanted the Euro; they and the French pushed it forward into countries that couldn't cope and now they're reaping the whirlwind. If they won't allow anyone to drop out of the Euro, they should at least back it themselves and not expect us to do it for them. And we need someone tough enough to take that argument into the heart of Europe and make it stick and, I'm sorry, but I don't think Dave is the man for the job. He isn't a big enough beast.
Hague might have the bottle but I'm not convinced.
A lot of people here seem to think Farrage is the man of the moment. But, as far as I'm concerned, he strikes me as a kind of mirror image of Tony Benn - amusing to listen to and with important things to say, but also a complete and utter fruitcake, whom I could never vote for. Besides, he's a one man band, UKIP doesn't have the manpower or the quality in depth to run a government.
Andy Zarse said:
Mr Snap said:
I disagree, even Peter Oborn, the right wing Telegraph commentator, said that he was a force to be reckoned with - a flawed man, who made awful mistakes, but a formidable operator who got things right when it really mattered.
Yes, signing the Lisbon Treaty in virtual secrecy and backing out of a referendum was a masterstroke.Perhaps you could give us some other examples of him getting things right when it really mattered? Not joining the Euro, you say? Down to his own control freakery I'm afraid. He'd hankered after the CoE job so long he was buggered if he was going to give away the power.
He did however - virtually - give away our gold reserves, another example of getting it right I assume? He was interviewed just before the last GE and questioned about his acumen in the decision. He smuggly stated he'd used the receipts to purchase Euro denominated assets and these had greatly risen in value. The stupid gurning t
t sat there not realising the only reason the Euro assets had risen was because his hopeless spendthrift policies had sent the value of Sterling down the tubes. Sadly the interviewer was similarly too stupid to spot the flaw in his grand plan... Mr Snap said:
A lot of people here seem to think Farrage is the man of the moment. But, as far as I'm concerned, he strikes me as a kind of mirror image of Tony Benn - amusing to listen to and with important things to say, but also a complete and utter fruitcake, whom I could never vote for.
I haven't heard a single thing he has said that suggests he is a fruitcake.I think you are confusing people who disagree with your world view with 'fruitcakes'.
In the EU speeches he is clearly the only sane man in the room.
Perhaps you can give me an example of why you think he is a 'fruitcake'.
Mr Snap said:
Besides, he's a one man band, UKIP doesn't have the manpower or the quality in depth to run a government.
Actually UKIP contested almost every seat in the country and polled 8% of the vote.It's not a one man band, it's a serious alternative to voting for the Lib/Lab/Con/EU party.
As for manpower and depth - we have a civil service to run the country, and the executive decisions for the past 20 years have been questionable to say the least. You imply that Major, Bliar, Winky and Cameron have more quality and depth. I have yet to see any evidence that they have more quality and depth than the average 5 year old.
Mr Snap said:
I think you're reading more in to what I said than I intended. Of course Brown is a nobody today - just like any ex PM. But my impression was - I repeat, my impression - that on, maybe, the only thing he ever got right he was listened to, by Merkel and Obama and the rest. Maybe he was a total psychotic but he got it right once and I don't think he got his way then by being smarmy. Nor do I think it was luck, he was for that one thing the right person at the right time. Just like Margaret was bang on right about some things (but horribly wrong on other things).
I don't disagree with you regarding Merkel's position vis a vis the German parliament. The point is, that this position needs to be overturned. The Germans wanted the Euro; they and the French pushed it forward into countries that couldn't cope and now they're reaping the whirlwind. If they won't allow anyone to drop out of the Euro, they should at least back it themselves and not expect us to do it for them. And we need someone tough enough to take that argument into the heart of Europe and make it stick and, I'm sorry, but I don't think Dave is the man for the job. He isn't a big enough beast.
Hague might have the bottle but I'm not convinced.
Er nobody listened to Brown in Europe or America despite what we are told in the UK for the rather simple reason that Europe could not do what the UK did in "saving" the banks and half the problem is they cant do it now either. I don't disagree with you regarding Merkel's position vis a vis the German parliament. The point is, that this position needs to be overturned. The Germans wanted the Euro; they and the French pushed it forward into countries that couldn't cope and now they're reaping the whirlwind. If they won't allow anyone to drop out of the Euro, they should at least back it themselves and not expect us to do it for them. And we need someone tough enough to take that argument into the heart of Europe and make it stick and, I'm sorry, but I don't think Dave is the man for the job. He isn't a big enough beast.
Hague might have the bottle but I'm not convinced.
You also cant overturn the German parliament. They have elections next year. You know the populace would like their say and all that. I know democracy isnt flavour of the month at the moment, but I humbly suggest if you try that route in Germany, esp fronted by a tough big beast one man show then you really will produce the biggest f
k up in Europe since 1945.But also what do you mean? Take what argument into Europe and make it stick? That we in the UK arent going to fund them or bail them out? Well er...thats exactly what we have told them. What more do you want?
Globs said:
Mr Snap said:
A lot of people here seem to think Farrage is the man of the moment. But, as far as I'm concerned, he strikes me as a kind of mirror image of Tony Benn - amusing to listen to and with important things to say, but also a complete and utter fruitcake, whom I could never vote for.
I haven't heard a single thing he has said that suggests he is a fruitcake.I think you are confusing people who disagree with your world view with 'fruitcakes'.
In the EU speeches he is clearly the only sane man in the room.
Perhaps you can give me an example of why you think he is a 'fruitcake'.
Mr Snap said:
Besides, he's a one man band, UKIP doesn't have the manpower or the quality in depth to run a government.
Actually UKIP contested almost every seat in the country and polled 8% of the vote.It's not a one man band, it's a serious alternative to voting for the Lib/Lab/Con/EU party.
As for manpower and depth - we have a civil service to run the country, and the executive decisions for the past 20 years have been questionable to say the least. You imply that Major, Bliar, Winky and Cameron have more quality and depth. I have yet to see any evidence that they have more quality and depth than the average 5 year old.
And I wouldn't have voted for Tony Benn for the same reasons. Nor for Brown, if I'd had the chance.
As to Ukip contesting so many seats. I don't have figures but, prior to the demise of Screaming Lord Such, the Official Monster Raving Looney Party managed to contest hundreds of seats, too. So what? A load of middle aged blokes who get aerated about Eurocrats isn't a fully functioning political party, it's just a bunch of aerated middle aged blokes. Meanwhile, their children are probably voting Green. I'm interested in politics but, apart from UKips anti-european views, I know nothing about them or their views on other issues. They fail to make the political weather and I can't really see them breaking the current stranglehold of the Lib/Lab/Con status quo.
Oh, and your figures are wrong. The House of Commons says you got 3.1% of the votes. I tend to believe them, not you. http://electionresources.org/uk/house.php?election...
Mr Snap said:
Maybe I didn't express myself well. I meant that Farrage sounds fine but he looks a bit weird. To my eyes he looks shifty and, call me shallow,
You seem to be retracting the 'fruitcake' accusation, good. You may not like the way he looks, but he's one of a small handful of elected people actually fighting your corner.Calling him names is a strange way of thanking him.
Mr Snap said:
As to Ukip contesting so many seats. I don't have figures but, prior to the demise of Screaming Lord Such, the Official Monster Raving Looney Party managed to contest hundreds of seats, too. So what? A load of middle aged blokes who get aerated about Eurocrats isn't a fully functioning political party, it's just a bunch of aerated middle aged blokes. Meanwhile, their children are probably voting Green. I'm interested in politics but, apart from UKips anti-european views, I know nothing about them or their views on other issues.
You are very opinionated about something you admit you know nothing about.A touch of the europhile hysteria at a party not towing the official line?
Mr Snap said:
They fail to make the political weather and I can't really see them breaking the current stranglehold of the Lib/Lab/Con status quo.
Parties don't break strangleholds, this is a democracy - you have to vote for parties to get elected. I appreciate this concept may be new to you as someone who is into the EU, but it really is down to people voting.Mr Snap said:
Oh, and your figures are wrong. The House of Commons says you got 3.1% of the votes. I tend to believe them, not you. http://electionresources.org/uk/house.php?election...
Yes I see, I wonder why I thought it was 8%, perhaps I was thinking of the total non Lib/Lab/Con/EU block vote.I would tend to think of UKIP as not having much chance but for the rapid increase in their popularity, and the fact tha same is happening all over europe. Austria the anti-EU oarty is currently ahead of the government, and there are many european countries with fast growing anti-Eu (pro democracy) movements. The tide has turned against the EU, politically their support is ebbing away, faster now as their true colours are revealed. Greece and Italy must have seemed a great idea to the cabal but it has sparked a sea change of conscience in europe. Europeans are waking up to the EU, and not liking what they see.
Mr Snap said:
Oh, and your figures are wrong. The House of Commons says you got 3.1% of the votes. I tend to believe them, not you. http://electionresources.org/uk/house.php?election...
I think Globs was using the alternative voting metric, under which any vote officially deemed to have been spoiled by the voter scrawling 'W*nkers' in wax crayon and/or smearing fecal matter on the voting slip should actually be counted as a vote for UKIP.
Farage does indeed have a grandly theatrical, evangelistic style, which invokes frenzied devotion from his small band of acolytes - but then, so did the likes of Jim Jones and David Koresh. My advice to the folks in the UKIP HQ compound would be that if the orange squash starts tasting a bit funny, or Nigel is seen lugging a can of unleaded and a Zippo around with him, to scarper - toot sweet, as the continentals say.
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