Class - Is it still relevant?

[Digga]

jdw1234 said:

I find the upperclass and lower class don't care (and are the most fun).

This I agree with wholeheartedly.

One of the friendliest "stranger's" houses I've stayed in was 'almost' royalty, within the royal's close social circle and fairly well known in their own right.

Locally Cannock, not so much a town as a collection of mining villages (locals seldom describe themselves as being 'from Cannock' but rather from whichever pit village/suburb) is unashamedly working class and, in my extensive experience a very cheerful, carefree and friendly place.

[SpeedMattersNot]

Digga said:

jdw1234 said:

I find the upperclass and lower class don't care (and are the most fun).

This I agree with wholeheartedly.

One of the friendliest "stranger's" houses I've stayed in was 'almost' royalty, within the royal's close social circle and fairly well known in their own right.

Locally Cannock, not so much a town as a collection of mining villages (locals seldom describe themselves as being 'from Cannock' but rather from whichever pit village/suburb) is unashamedly working class and, in my extensive experience a very cheerful, carefree and friendly place.

Great for mtb'ing too

[Ozzie Osmond]

Digga said:

One of the friendliest "stranger's" houses I've stayed in was 'almost' royalty, within the royal's close social circle and fairly well known in their own right.

We're all very impressed by your close connections with the aristocracy.

Why the British love so much to brown-nose around these people and lap up their nonsense is beyond understanding.

[otolith]

jdw1234 said:

otolith said:

Class is the mechanism by which those who are descended from successful people maintain the delusion that they are superior to those who have achieved success for themselves. When the landowner can no longer sneer at the merchant's lack of wealth, he needs to find a new reason to despise him.

Really?

I find the upperclass and lower class don't care (and are the most fun).

It is the nasty middle that worry about it.

You mean to say that the people who think that their social class makes them most superior and the people who have no aspiration are those most content with the concept?

Who would have thought it?

I think, though, that you only have to look at the hostile comments about David Cameron's background to see that class most certainly is an issue for many people who would describe themselves as working class.

[mrmr96]

DeadMeat_UK said:

mrmr96 said:

1) Upper Class (butler)
2.1) Middle Class (waitrose/marks and spencer/john lewis/german and british cars)
2.2) Working Class (sainsburys/tesco/primark/french cars)
3) Non-Working Class (asda/morrisons/ocean finance/german or french cars with bits stuck on)

EFA

Haha, very good.

[jdw1234]

otolith said:

jdw1234 said:

otolith said:

Class is the mechanism by which those who are descended from successful people maintain the delusion that they are superior to those who have achieved success for themselves. When the landowner can no longer sneer at the merchant's lack of wealth, he needs to find a new reason to despise him.

Really?

I find the upperclass and lower class don't care (and are the most fun).

It is the nasty middle that worry about it.

You mean to say that the people who think that their social class makes them most superior and the people who have no aspiration are those most content with the concept?

Who would have thought it?

I think, though, that you only have to look at the hostile comments about David Cameron's background to see that class most certainly is an issue for many people who would describe themselves as working class.

Bottle of sauce for over here!!!

[otolith]

jdw1234 said:

otolith said:

jdw1234 said:

otolith said:

Class is the mechanism by which those who are descended from successful people maintain the delusion that they are superior to those who have achieved success for themselves. When the landowner can no longer sneer at the merchant's lack of wealth, he needs to find a new reason to despise him.

Really?

I find the upperclass and lower class don't care (and are the most fun).

It is the nasty middle that worry about it.

You mean to say that the people who think that their social class makes them most superior and the people who have no aspiration are those most content with the concept?

Who would have thought it?

I think, though, that you only have to look at the hostile comments about David Cameron's background to see that class most certainly is an issue for many people who would describe themselves as working class.

Bottle of sauce for over here!!!

I have no chips, I'm merely making sociological observations.

An interesting comment and assumption from you, though - perhaps you have less detached impartiality than you wish to admit?

[Digga]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Digga said:

One of the friendliest "stranger's" houses I've stayed in was 'almost' royalty, within the royal's close social circle and fairly well known in their own right.

We're all very impressed by your close connections with the aristocracy.

Why the British love so much to brown-nose around these people and lap up their nonsense is beyond understanding.

For the purpose of disambiguation, I'm in no way connected, either to them or anyone else of distinushed lineage. I was a guest. Very big difference. However, since I judge people as I find them, my orignal point still stands.

Clearly, from your very chippy response, you've not had the experience, so don't knock it.

[jdw1234]

otolith said:

jdw1234 said:

otolith said:

jdw1234 said:

otolith said:

Class is the mechanism by which those who are descended from successful people maintain the delusion that they are superior to those who have achieved success for themselves. When the landowner can no longer sneer at the merchant's lack of wealth, he needs to find a new reason to despise him.

Really?

I find the upperclass and lower class don't care (and are the most fun).

It is the nasty middle that worry about it.

You mean to say that the people who think that their social class makes them most superior and the people who have no aspiration are those most content with the concept?

Who would have thought it?

I think, though, that you only have to look at the hostile comments about David Cameron's background to see that class most certainly is an issue for many people who would describe themselves as working class.

Bottle of sauce for over here!!!

I have no chips, I'm merely making sociological observations.

An interesting comment and assumption from you, though - perhaps you have less detached impartiality than you wish to admit?

Comment was meant in jest. I am just a common forelock tugger.

I just have never found class to be an issue. You often see examples of middle class "keeping up with the Joneses" nonsense though.

There are going to be knobs in all walks of life though - can't taint everyone with the same brush.

The people you mention having a go at David Cameron appear to be public sector workers rather than working class (subject to sentence before about making wild assumptions ;-)).

[otolith]

jdw1234 said:

Comment was meant in jest. I am just a common forelock tugger.

I just have never found class to be an issue. You often see examples of middle class "keeping up with the Joneses" nonsense though.

There are going to be knobs in all walks of life though - can't taint everyone with the same brush.

I agree, and conversely I've met nice people from all sorts of backgrounds. What I dislike is the idea of prejudice, whether based on race, colour, class or whatever, and it seems to me that being able to pigeonhole people without going to the trouble of getting to know them is the whole reason for the existence of the concept of class.

jdw1234 said:

The people you mention having a go at David Cameron appear to be public sector workers rather than working class (subject to sentence before about making wild assumptions ;-)).

Not sure about that, I see it a lot in other forums I read and I don't think all of the complainants are civil servants. It's interesting, though, that Tony Blair's similarly privileged upbringing was never seen in the same light by these people.

[turbobloke]

otolith said:

jdw1234 said:

Comment was meant in jest. I am just a common forelock tugger.

I just have never found class to be an issue. You often see examples of middle class "keeping up with the Joneses" nonsense though.

There are going to be knobs in all walks of life though - can't taint everyone with the same brush.

I agree, and conversely I've met nice people from all sorts of backgrounds. What I dislike is the idea of prejudice, whether based on race, colour, class or whatever, and it seems to me that being able to pigeonhole people without going to the trouble of getting to know them is the whole reason for the existence of the concept of class.

jdw1234 said:

The people you mention having a go at David Cameron appear to be public sector workers rather than working class (subject to sentence before about making wild assumptions ;-)).

Not sure about that, I see it a lot in other forums I read and I don't think all of the complainants are civil servants. It's interesting, though, that Tony Blair's similarly privileged upbringing was never seen in the same light by these people.

Bliar still manages to annoy diehard chippy toytown trots as he accumulates wealth, it's almost worth not despising Bliar quite so much, almost.

The political class, a statement by Mr Speaker Gorbals Mick:

somebody imitating a moneygrabbing parasite said:

I didn't come into politics not to take what's owed to me

[otolith]

turbobloke said:

Bliar still manages to annoy diehard chippy toytown trots as he accumulates wealth, it's almost worth not despising Bliar quite so much, almost.

There was a comment on R4 yesterday about PCS union leader Mark Serwotka hating Labour even more than he hates the Tories - but the internal politics of the Left always have been bitter and vicious. These folk who make a big deal of Cameron's Eton/Oxford education but who were never vocal about Blair's Fettes/Oxford education are rank and file Daily Mirror / Daily Record readers, I would say.

[ukwill]

otolith said:

There was a comment on R4 yesterday about PCS union leader Mark Serwotka hating Labour even more than he hates the Tories - but the internal politics of the Left always have been bitter and vicious. These folk who make a big deal of Cameron's Eton/Oxford education but who were never vocal about Blair's Fettes/Oxford education are rank and file Daily Mirror / Daily Record readers, I would say.

Not to forget the glorious Graun. That bastion of leftist absurdity. Whose hacks are almost all privately educated...

[crankedup]

Esseesse said:

I think there is a working and middle class. There's a huge gulf between people from families who grow up expecting to do something probably manual - work in wilkos, tyre fitter, cleaner etc and families who may not (but if they don't probably would like to) privately educate their kids and send them through higher education. I suppose it mostly comes from expectations, but I don't think you can lump the 2 together as 'everyone else', they're like chalk and cheese.

Blue collar = manual worker
White collar = Office worker

When it comes to apply pay packets it is impossible to attribute which group may be of higher class to either group. Class by wealth simply is not part of the equation.

[Digga]

crankedup said:

When it comes to apply pay packets it is impossible to attribute which group may be of higher class to either group.

Totally. In the good times, skilled manual workers - the top-end brickies, welders etc. - will easily earn double the average and potentially more.

[Ozzie Osmond]

Digga said:

I judge people as I find them.

Clearly, from your very chippy response, you've not had the experience, so don't knock it.

Regrettably, you make a significant error of judgment. Been there, done that. Not fooled.

[Digga]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Digga said:

I judge people as I find them.

Clearly, from your very chippy response, you've not had the experience, so don't knock it.

Regrettably, you make a significant error of judgment. Been there, done that. Not fooled.

Well you'll nonetheless have to allow that the upper classes, like every other section of society, is likely to have its fair share of good 'uns, just as it will likely also have its proper entitlement of shysters. Very dangerous and unwise to tar whole chunks of the class system with the same brush.

[Olf]

My take on this is that class has largely been eliminated as a discriminator in the work place. Possible exceptions are the armed forces and 'city' type work, high finance, insurance, etc, and finally land management.

Elsewhere the work place is pretty (class) egalitarian.

In private life (weekends, socials, holidays etc), it's a different world. The old divides still very much exist.

[Rude-boy]

Ozzie Osmond said:

Regrettably, you make a significant error of judgment. Been there, done that. Not fooled.

I am just a little baffled by your distaste for them though. Almost sounds as though you were soundly buggered by one of them once and have never lost the sore spot

Seriously why are you s o anti? I have been around people from all walks of life and judge each as I find them. It has yet to require more than a little modification in some cases over the years and I’d treat a lord the same as a prole. About the only difference is that my first choice for lunch in town with a prole would not be to suggest the Savoy Grill and with a lord my first choice would not be MaccyD’s.

[DSM2]

If you read the thread about Phil the Greek, you will see the answer is clearly yes and many are apparently quite happy to perpetuate it.