Cut-backs begin to bite

[rhinochopig]

singlecoil said:

singlecoil said:

It's in the nature of cutbacks that there will be less services provided by those agencies that are cut back than previously. Every now and then we will find ourselves in situations where we are directly affected by this.

So, OP, what exactly is your point? That there should be no cutbacks? Public borrowing should increase?

I daresay you don't want to respond to this, just quoting it to make sure you had seen it, as I am interested to know what your point is, and what you think the solution is.

Most rural stations are retained anyway - i.e. voluntary with minimal remuneration. They just put it down to training; it's what we typically do in rural communities, we help each other out. And as for a waste of taxes - think of it as compensation for having almost zero infrastructure.

[singlecoil]

rhinochopig said:

singlecoil said:

singlecoil said:

It's in the nature of cutbacks that there will be less services provided by those agencies that are cut back than previously. Every now and then we will find ourselves in situations where we are directly affected by this.

So, OP, what exactly is your point? That there should be no cutbacks? Public borrowing should increase?

I daresay you don't want to respond to this, just quoting it to make sure you had seen it, as I am interested to know what your point is, and what you think the solution is.

Most rural stations are retained anyway - i.e. voluntary with minimal remuneration. They just put it down to training; it's what we typically do in rural communities, we help each other out. And as for a waste of taxes - think of it as compensation for having almost zero infrastructure.

Well, you quoted me, but I'm guessing you meant to quote someone else?

[RedLeicester]

Ipswich B.C. may indeed have a flood team. They do not have either of these:

crankedup said:

Environment Flood Agency

crankedup said:

Flood Team Agency

crankedup said:

What neck of the woods do you live in? It clearly does not offer the same services as my patch.

I live in a wonderful area called The Countryside, where we have all sorts of services who turn up and do their jobs when it their responsibility to do so. If it isn't their responsibility, they also happily say so, and don't then turn up. Nothing in those services has changed for over 10 years.

crankedup said:

The Farmers used to be paid for ditch clearing but Thatcher stopped the payments. Farmers can still clear ditches if they want to. Where's your argument? I clear my ditch for same obvious reasons.

Argument? Oh for pity's sake, must everything be an argument for you to be happy? I offered a clarification of duties, responsibilities and areas of service, along with a short political history lesson.

crankedup said:

I do not live in an area susceptible to flooding, my flooding was related to an idiot who couldn't be bothered to clear his drainage system.

Lucky then that you won't, and never have required the services you so ably and merrily denigrate.

crankedup said:

I dare say many people on this forum would be angry if they had just endured what we were subjected to. So keep paying in money and receive no services, the Tory way.

Goodness me, truly incapable of reading any sentence other than your own, and assuming all else is Tory? Remarkable. I dare say most people on this forum are completely foxed by your meandering, manipulation of perceived "truth", and insistence on bringing some ill-informed politicking and no small amount of virulent blame culture into a fairly straight forward issue. Quite what any of this has to do with cuts, labour, conservatives or unicorns is still entirely beyond me, and clearly you.

[scdan4]

You posted about this donks ago.

What did you think would happen when it rained?

Didn't you find out about the problem when it rained lightly and it flooded slightly (prepared to be wrong about that)

Extrapolating... what happens when there is a downpour?




I cannot see how this is anyones fault but your neighbours (who clearly doesn't care) and indeed, anyones problem but your own (sadly, would not wish it on anyone, it sounds ste)

But, if your drainage is blocked you clear it as priority one, argue about it later. (i.e. Ask him to fix - get a no. Turn up with minidigger and fix it for him, whether he gets shouty at you, or makes you a cuppa)

[NailedOn]

Hey Crankedup. I am sorry you had a problem with serious flooding. I lived in the countryside a while ago and when the water takes over, it is a huge force. Pretty frightening as a matter of fact.
I've seen a fair few of your posts and you sound like a decent bloke with an ar&e for a neighbour.
I don't go with your politics on this one but you have my sympathy for a right old mare of a situation. I hope it turns out fine.

[Deva Link]

crankedup said:

Thanks for a intelligent reply, the problem we believe is now resolved, but I am taking on board your suggestion. Cheers

Who resolved the problem?

[whoami]

crankedup said:

iBad feelings living here now and so we are selling up.

Once you've found a new place, why not give the ambulance service a call to help with your removal?

[MOTORVATOR]

Cranky I think you may believe you pay for these services when you don't. Have you compared your water rates with a similar property on mains drainage?

[crankedup]

London424 said:

crankedup said:

RedLeicester said:

crankedup said:

Environment Flood Agency

crankedup said:

Flood Team Agency

Neither of these things exist. You are aware I'm sure however that MAFF and DETR, the two agencies who would have been involved in events such as yours were decimated and then amalgamated into one amorphous blob in.... 2001.... now remind me who was in power at the time? Oooh Evil Thatcher!

crankedup said:

Open watercourses used to be maintained by local farmers under a Government paid scheme. That scheme was stopped during the 1980's by Thatchers Government, we now have road flooding due to blocked drains/pipes all over Norfolk and Suffolk areas.

Open watercourses are still maintained by farmers as ever was. Thankfully much like in many instances currently, it was realised that farmers would maintain the watercourses irrespective of whether they were paid or not, as it was abundantly clear it was in their interests to do so - after all they wouldn't want their crops or livestock under water, thusly why should taxpayers fund them to do something they would do anyway? What a wise cost saving to the taxpayer! Evil evil naughty Thatcher. Before you start, they were responsible for clearing THEIR watercourses, not those of private landowners or gardens, much less municipal or parochial land, all of which fell and still falls under the remit of the local government agencies.

Oh and of course let us not fail to forget the Environment Agency, that most noble of institutions which was given extra power, authority and remit when it was formed in 1996, taking the remit of the NRA, the same old body which would have overseen your own issues, and giving it teeth. Then in '98 all the inspectors, of which there were hundreds of area operatives around the country, were all recalled to London to work on their almighty new flood maps. So what do we have now? Inaccurate maps made with a blue marker pen in a shiny building miles from the actual location resulting in flooding where it says there will be none, and other houses finding themselves with punitive insurance bills because the same marker pen says they'll flood even though they're on a hill. Remind me who was sorting the deck chairs on the titanic in '98? Oh yes! Nasty evil evil nasty Thatcher!

By all means rail against the government of the day, but do be careful with your history and your data - being blinded by political bias ultimately fails to resolve your issues, and does little more than serve to enrage you beyond reason and logic. All governments do ridiculous and crazy things, and often they do things that seem ridiculous or crazy at the time but with the benefit of hindsight and a lack of bias or prejudice can be shown to have been rather prescient and wise. Or preposterous. Blaming them or individuals when the reasoning and evidential data is staring you in the face is simple myopia.

What neck of the woods do you live in? It clearly does not offer the same services as my patch.
Ipswich B.C. do have a Environmental Flood team.

The Farmers used to be paid for ditch clearing but Thatcher stopped the payments. Farmers can still clear ditches if they want to. Where's your argument? I clear my ditch for same obvious reasons.

I do not live in an area susceptible to flooding, my flooding was related to an idiot who couldn't be bothered to clear his drainage system.

I dare say many people on this forum would be angry if they had just endured what we were subjected to. So keep paying in money and receive no services, the Tory way.

1. We don't have a Tory government.

2. You have a neighbour problem...not a government services problem.

If your house was on fire or you were being raped I'm sure you would have been helped.

Note you didn't address the points I had raised in response to your former reply. When did I say I EXPECT help from Public Service?

[crankedup]

andymadmak said:

crankedup said:

What neck of the woods do you live in? It clearly does not offer the same services as my patch.
Ipswich B.C. do have a Environmental Flood team.

yes but is that team for "natural disasters (for want of a better description) or for people like your neighbour who can't be arsed to keep their own drains clear?

crankedup said:

The Farmers used to be paid for ditch clearing but Thatcher stopped the payments. Farmers can still clear ditches if they want to. Where's your argument? I clear my ditch for same obvious reasons.

As has been pointed out, Mrs Thatcher stopped paying farmers for stuff they were going to do anyway, without payment.
Are you suggesting that a farmer would have cleared your neighbours drains?

crankedup said:

I do not live in an area susceptible to flooding, my flooding was related to an idiot who couldn't be bothered to clear his drainage system.

Precisely, and as such, nothing whatsoever to do with the Government. (or Mrs Thatcher. )

crankedup said:

I dare say many people on this forum would be angry if they had just endured what we were subjected to.

I dare say you're right. But I suspect very few would have pointed the finger of blame at the Government,....not for the original problem, nor for the fact that "free people with free kit providing a free service" were not available to you to sort out your problem.

crankedup said:

So keep paying in money and receive no services, the Tory way.

And there you go again! You seem to think that somebody else (ie, the taxpayer) should have paid for the mess your neighbour caused to be cleared up or to avert the disaster that might have happened as a result of your neighbour.
If I may say so, it's precisely because so many people expect their arses to be wiped for them in this way that there is not enough money for the truly vulnerable and disadvantaged. You do know that if a water pipe or drain breaks on your land it is YOUR responsibility to fix it? - not the water company, not the council, not the taxpayer...you! T'was ever thus.
What services do you honestly think you paid for that would have covered your problem?

And the Tory way is to try to get value for money, not piss endless amounts cash from the mythical magic money tree in every direction.

1. The team are specifically for addressing flooding issues, howsoever caused. In my case a neighbours blocked drainage pipe. The team have the legislative powers to enforce those responsible to clear and keep clear water courses which fall within any persons property or adjacent to boundary of property. In this case an order has been issued to my offending neighbour to that effect. Failure for them to comply will lead to criminal negligence prosecution by this Flood team. (formal name unknown)

2. No, its a good general point I was making as a related issues, next time you see road flooding have a look to see if its a farmers ditch blocked. My guess is that it will be. So many fields are being 'set aside' for which the farmers receive payment for, why would they spend cash clearing those ditches to those fields, most cases they don't.

3. But if you read the whole thread you will see that I have made references to field drains which are neglected. When we get the super heavy rain it washes through those field drains and ends up blocking piped drains with all the debris.

4. I was seeking assistance from the Public Services too HELP us resolve a serious problem. My point of the post is to highlight one area of cut-backs where it is impacting upon front line services. Years back in the same situation the local Council would have been out assisting a tax payer. Please do remember that the Public Services or contractors do not provide anything FREE in terms of labour or equipment, it is all paid for by tax payers like me and you. The service I refer used to be free at point of delivery last time I was involved in a similar situation many years ago elsewhere in the Country.

5. If you read the thread before jumping down my throat you will read how I go about accepting my responsibilities. My drains are kept clean and free flowing, my septic tank private system has just passed(yesterday) an inspection by the Environment Agency. I maintain all of my areas of property, like most ordinary home-owners would.

6. You are entirely wrong to comment that situations like that in this thread are nothing to do with the Government. Thatchers Government, as I have already mentioned, began the deterioration of the water-courses within the U.K. by her Government refusing to pay farmers to clear open water-courses. This is now resulting in a knock-on effect of localised flash flooding. I am not suggesting that partially blocked water-courses are 100% the cause of this flooding but certainly a significant contribution. Of course I agree that very few would have involved historical evidence that leads up to situations such as I have experienced recently. At the same time very few in this forum may not acknowledge the deterioration of our basic infrastructure such as the electric generation which is now reaching end of life without planed replacements ready. Our road infrastructure and rail network. Clean water supply threatened when rain stops falling for six months. Its all part of the decline of the U.K. basic infrastructure due to past Governments refusal to look past the next G.E. IMO.

One last point, do you live in the rural countryside? I suspect not judging from your considerations to my points made in this thread.

[crankedup]

RedLeicester said:

Ipswich B.C. may indeed have a flood team. They do not have either of these:

crankedup said:

Environment Flood Agency

crankedup said:

Flood Team Agency

crankedup said:

What neck of the woods do you live in? It clearly does not offer the same services as my patch.

I live in a wonderful area called The Countryside, where we have all sorts of services who turn up and do their jobs when it their responsibility to do so. If it isn't their responsibility, they also happily say so, and don't then turn up. Nothing in those services has changed for over 10 years.

crankedup said:

The Farmers used to be paid for ditch clearing but Thatcher stopped the payments. Farmers can still clear ditches if they want to. Where's your argument? I clear my ditch for same obvious reasons.

Argument? Oh for pity's sake, must everything be an argument for you to be happy? I offered a clarification of duties, responsibilities and areas of service, along with a short political history lesson.

crankedup said:

I do not live in an area susceptible to flooding, my flooding was related to an idiot who couldn't be bothered to clear his drainage system.

Lucky then that you won't, and never have required the services you so ably and merrily denigrate.

crankedup said:

I dare say many people on this forum would be angry if they had just endured what we were subjected to. So keep paying in money and receive no services, the Tory way.

Goodness me, truly incapable of reading any sentence other than your own, and assuming all else is Tory? Remarkable. I dare say most people on this forum are completely foxed by your meandering, manipulation of perceived "truth", and insistence on bringing some ill-informed politicking and no small amount of virulent blame culture into a fairly straight forward issue. Quite what any of this has to do with cuts, labour, conservatives or unicorns is still entirely beyond me, and clearly you.

IMO the public services should have been available to assist somebody faced with the predicament I found myself in. As it was caused by a private owned piped water-course the public service should take legal action and sue that private owner for costs involved.
I have not denigrated any Public Service!! I have stated that they are not available to provide assistance in the situation I was faced with, what is wrong with people like you who seem to have a need to exaggerate a post to suit your own agenda?

Other posters disagree, surprise surprise. You cannot see it has anything to do with cuts implying no cuts to public services have occurred prior to ten years past - that is just plain wrong. Budget cuts to P.S. have been prevalent since 1974 and continue today.

Most unfair and unreasonable suggesting that I did nothing to help myself in the situation I found myself in regarding flooding. If you had only read the thread properly you will have noticed that I said that I spent two days attempting to clear my neighbours drainage for him for the benefit of reducing flood risk. We hired a water-pump but it proved to be inadequate and no other pumps were available owing to others in the County also having flooding issues and trying as I to help themselves.

I would like a quid for every poster in here that has denigrated various Governments, of all colours, over the past few years. I suggest you get of your high horse mate, before you fall off and hurt yourself.

[London424]

crankedup said:

IMO the public services should have been available to assist somebody faced with the predicament I found myself in. As it was caused by a private owned piped water-course the public service should take legal action and sue that private owner for costs involved.
I have not denigrated any Public Service!! I have stated that they are not available to provide assistance in the situation I was faced with, what is wrong with people like you who seem to have a need to exaggerate a post to suit your own agenda?

Other posters disagree, surprise surprise. You cannot see it has anything to do with cuts implying no cuts to public services have occurred prior to ten years past - that is just plain wrong. Budget cuts to P.S. have been prevalent since 1974 and continue today.

Most unfair and unreasonable suggesting that I did nothing to help myself in the situation I found myself in regarding flooding. If you had only read the thread properly you will have noticed that I said that I spent two days attempting to clear my neighbours drainage for him for the benefit of reducing flood risk. We hired a water-pump but it proved to be inadequate and no other pumps were available owing to others in the County also having flooding issues and trying as I to help themselves.

I would like a quid for every poster in here that has denigrated various Governments, of all colours, over the past few years. I suggest you get of your high horse mate, before you fall off and hurt yourself.

They were available to help. They told you how much it would cost but you didn't want to pay.

I understand your reasons why, but that is because you gave a cock for a neighbour.

[crankedup]

scdan4 said:

You posted about this donks ago.

What did you think would happen when it rained?

Didn't you find out about the problem when it rained lightly and it flooded slightly (prepared to be wrong about that)

Extrapolating... what happens when there is a downpour?




I cannot see how this is anyones fault but your neighbours (who clearly doesn't care) and indeed, anyones problem but your own (sadly, would not wish it on anyone, it sounds ste)

But, if your drainage is blocked you clear it as priority one, argue about it later. (i.e. Ask him to fix - get a no. Turn up with minidigger and fix it for him, whether he gets shouty at you, or makes you a cuppa)

I know it all sounds simple, believe me it wasn't. I spent two days trying to clear my neighbours blocked drain pipe. His drain runs underneath his garage and part of his house. These people refused to acknowledge the pipe was partially blocked. In hindsight I should have taken firmer action beforehand and I regret not doing so. In the interest of good quite neighbourly living conditions I kept to quite about it in the past. I hadn't realized that public service assistance in a practical way was unavailable, I know now!

In the past after significant rain the water would back up and the road may get some surface water. Within a couple of days the problem would resolve itself. What has happened is the rain last year has brought the water table extremely high. Any heavy rain falling now immediately runs off the local fields into any low point. It eventually finds its way into the water-courses rather than naturally seeping into the subground and away into natural aquifers.
This is the reason why the extreme situation we had to deal (a months rain fell in 12 hours apparently) with was the first really serious flood since we have lived here, which is ten years. Other events being minor inconveniences in comparison.

Our house will have a black spot for a flooding issue on it now by the Environment Agency. We are obtaining a copy of the report by the Borough Council of Ipswich flood team, this will indicate the problem was localised to this blocked pipe and has now been resolved. Any re-occurrence will result in criminal negligence action against the owners of this blocked pipe.
We did manage to rod out the blockage, or at least my next door neighbours pal managed to rod the blockage. My next door neighbour was also affected and had been affected, now and again, for twenty years apparently. Its been a lesson in life for us, and we are pensioners but still learning, if we have the slightest problem with drainage in future good neighbours are irrelevant from now on.

We are considering moving house, the new owners can be assured that a re-occurrence is extremely unlikely now that positive action has now been taken over the issue. Of course nothing can be warranted and anything is possible, like all things in life I guess.

[crankedup]

MOTORVATOR said:

Cranky I think you may believe you pay for these services when you don't. Have you compared your water rates with a similar property on mains drainage?

TBH no I haven't and I had not considered that either. Its a fair point and it is very likely I pay a lot less than people who pay waste water sewage rates. So perhaps I need to row back

[Deva Link]

crankedup said:

IMO the public services should have been available to assist somebody faced with the predicament I found myself in.

They were, weren't they?

OK, you had a bit of trouble navigating through the various organisations but eventually one came out, assessed the problem and leaned on the neighbour for you.

[crankedup]

Deva Link said:

crankedup said:

Thanks for a intelligent reply, the problem we believe is now resolved, but I am taking on board your suggestion. Cheers

Who resolved the problem?

My next door neighbours pal and an old guy who had local knowledge of the pipe outlet. (My next door neighbour was also affected). This old guy told us where the pipe actually was located and it was not where I had been working six weeks prior to clear the pipe. The younger guy (Arnold Swartnegger type) dug out about 18 inches of muck and debris which had covered the offending item and then used about 10 / 15m of rods. Eventually a chunk of wood dislodged and the pipe then gushed forth and the water rapidly began to recede, much to all our relief! I have now costed in a brilliant slap up meal out for my neighbours and their pal/wife. The flood agency had ordered the neighbours of the offending pipe to pay for the pipe to be jetted through, I believe this is still to be ongoing as other minor debris may still be in the pipe, such as small tree roots growing through.
I wouldn't wish any of this on my worst enemy, even if you have a co-operative and reasonable neighbours it is still extremely stressful. How those people feel when they see their home completely ruined I can empathise with.

[crankedup]

London424 said:

crankedup said:

IMO the public services should have been available to assist somebody faced with the predicament I found myself in. As it was caused by a private owned piped water-course the public service should take legal action and sue that private owner for costs involved.
I have not denigrated any Public Service!! I have stated that they are not available to provide assistance in the situation I was faced with, what is wrong with people like you who seem to have a need to exaggerate a post to suit your own agenda?

Other posters disagree, surprise surprise. You cannot see it has anything to do with cuts implying no cuts to public services have occurred prior to ten years past - that is just plain wrong. Budget cuts to P.S. have been prevalent since 1974 and continue today.

Most unfair and unreasonable suggesting that I did nothing to help myself in the situation I found myself in regarding flooding. If you had only read the thread properly you will have noticed that I said that I spent two days attempting to clear my neighbours drainage for him for the benefit of reducing flood risk. We hired a water-pump but it proved to be inadequate and no other pumps were available owing to others in the County also having flooding issues and trying as I to help themselves.

I would like a quid for every poster in here that has denigrated various Governments, of all colours, over the past few years. I suggest you get of your high horse mate, before you fall off and hurt yourself.

They were available to help. They told you how much it would cost but you didn't want to pay.

I understand your reasons why, but that is because you gave a cock for a neighbour.

The fire officer told me the pumps would cost 500 pounds an hour. He then went onto to tell me it would be about eight hours pumping required. Further he advised us not to take it on as the ground water levels were so high the pumped water would flow back again within hours. I was also involved with my immediate next door neighbour who could not afford such a cost, therefore it would all fall onto my wallet. In the event I could not claim against my house insurance because the house was not actually flooded. My actions would have prevented the flooding (nice for the insurance company) So I would have been better off financially to have stood back and watched our home flood, the emergency services would then pump out our home for as long as it took at no cost to us. We chose to continue struggling to prevent home flood, as I am sure many would.
Do I hate my opposite neighbour now, well they enjoyed a special occasion barbie with us and others last September, they are not invited to this years party!

One thing comes to mind, I can see the POV from some that the Public Services had no business to assist us in the situation we found ourselves in. However, think of this when your car catches fire on your private driveway and you call the fire service or your wife calls them perhaps.

[toppstuff]

I live in similar circumstances. I am surrounded by fields, with drainage ditches all around my property.

Right now with all of the rain, the ditches are so full of water the house looks like it has a moat !

I also have a scruffy, unkempt neighbour down the lane who does not maintain his property very well.

Last Autumn I rented a mini digger and cleared all the ditches around me. I paid a guy two weeks ago to help me service all of them with a spade and shovel by hand to keep them clear.

I expect no help from anyone.

Neither should the OP. If he chooses to live in a rural area where drainage depends on ditches around or on your land, it comes with the lifestyle.

Blaming it on cutbacks is frankly ridiculous.

The OP clearly has a very well established mindset and simply sees everything through a lens that vindicates his view of the world. Odd. And wrong.

Its got nothing to do with politics. Its got nothing to do with Maggie, or the Tories.

When we had major flash flooding in 2007, bad enough to make dozens of families homeless in our area, I dashed home and with pickaxes and lump hammers, we had to break down walls and paving to redirect waterflow.

It is your problem. You live there. Take personal responsibility and stop expecting others to help you.

This thread demeans you. I can't for the life of me understand how you turn a local issue with your neighbour into a polemic about the government.

I'n sorry you are having aggravation, but come on...

Edited by toppstuff on Saturday 16th March 13:41

[mondeoman]

toppstuff said:

I live in similar circumstances. I am surrounded by fields, with drainage ditches all around my property.

Right now with all of the rain, the ditches are so full of water the house looks like it has a moat !

I also have a scruffy, unkempt neighbour down the lane who does not maintain his property very well.

Last Autumn I rented a mini digger and cleared all the ditches around me. I paid a guy two weeks ago to help me service all of them with a spade and shovel by hand to keep them clear.

I expect no help from anyone.

Neither should the OP. If he chooses to live in a rural area where drainage depends on ditches around or on your land, it comes with the lifestyle.

Blaming it on cutbacks is frankly ridiculous.

The OP clearly has a very well established mindset and simply sees everything through a lens that vindicates his view of the world. Odd. And wrong.

Its got nothing to do with politics. Its got nothing to do with Maggie, or the Tories.

When we had major flash flooding in 2007, bad enough to make dozens of families homeless in our area, I dashed home and with pickaxes and lump hammers, we had to break down walls and paving to redirect waterflow.

It is your problem. You live there. Take personal responsibility and stop expecting others to help you.

This thread demeans you. I can't for the life of me understand how you turn a local issue with your neighbour into a polemic about the government.

I'n sorry you are having aggravation, but come on...

Edited by toppstuff on Saturday 16th March 13:41

I like the cut of your jib sir!

[crankedup]

Deva Link said:

crankedup said:

IMO the public services should have been available to assist somebody faced with the predicament I found myself in.

They were, weren't they?

OK, you had a bit of trouble navigating through the various organisations but eventually one came out, assessed the problem and leaned on the neighbour for you.

Yes, they did, but didn't help at all in reality so far as the immediate crisis was concerned or any form of practical assistance. I was lucky as I mentioned earlier assistance became available through Camerons Big Society idea. A complete day on the telephone attempting to find what Authorities do what, or in this case don't do. Well its not to good is it, hardly a clear and concise route to the differing Agencies and Public Services.