New car sales 75% via PCP
Discussion
TLandCruiser said:
That's my point, I earn 55k a year and I would not want to pay £400 - £500 a month on a car, my old land cruiser keeps on ticking along and never needs anything other than a service. Someone said what's the difference between £500 a month and 50k every ten years?? Well I would not spend 50k cash on car either 
. I truely am intrigued how so many people can afford to the cars I see on the road near me. i'm still convinced people are more skint then they look to be.
Just shut up and keep your head down! These people are the reason you can go out and spent a few £k on a car that's fundamentally no different to a £30k Golf, other than being second hand, and not have to worry about spending 10s of thousands on cars that are a bit crap. Second hand cars are ridiculously cheap compared to new prices when you consider how reliable a lot of modern cars are. There's no 'real' reason for people to pay the premium, but the longer they do the better things are for those that don't.. I truely am intrigued how so many people can afford to the cars I see on the road near me. i'm still convinced people are more skint then they look to be.Re the airfields thing, no idea what's going on there but is it possible that it makes more sense to take out some of the over-supply and keep the price high on the remaining 90% of the market? Then ship the cars to a different market and hope no one notices you can buy 3 year old cars for pennies in Africa or some other wheeze.
Sheepshanks said:
walm said:
Or as I look at it... drop that £5k to £2k and get a free skiing holiday for you and the missus!!
....but the holiday's done in a week. You get to use the car for a year.Just an older, less expensive one!
If you don't want the holiday, I will offer you a house with rent £250 a month more expensive, than you currently pay.
paulrockliffe said:
Just shut up and keep your head down! These people are the reason you can go out and spent a few £k on a car that's fundamentally no different to a £30k Golf, other than being second hand, and not have to worry about spending 10s of thousands on cars that are a bit crap. Second hand cars are ridiculously cheap compared to new prices when you consider how reliable a lot of modern cars are. There's no 'real' reason for people to pay the premium, but the longer they do the better things are for those that don't.
Re the airfields thing, no idea what's going on there but is it possible that it makes more sense to take out some of the over-supply and keep the price high on the remaining 90% of the market? Then ship the cars to a different market and hope no one notices you can buy 3 year old cars for pennies in Africa or some other wheeze.
One of the things that screw our market is that our cars are Right hand driveRe the airfields thing, no idea what's going on there but is it possible that it makes more sense to take out some of the over-supply and keep the price high on the remaining 90% of the market? Then ship the cars to a different market and hope no one notices you can buy 3 year old cars for pennies in Africa or some other wheeze.
Adrian W said:
One of the things that screw our market is that our cars are Right hand drive
Certainly colleagues from elsewhere in Europe are always astonished at how low our used car prices are. Also high mileage (kms, of course) doesn't bother them.If we drove LHD cars and the cars were freely interchangeable it surely would significantly increase used prices here.
unrepentant said:
Here in the USA most of the major manufacturers own their own finance houses and leases are run through those sources. The 3 yr lease is usually the most attractive as it means that the dealer network has a prime stock of used inventory coming back to them still under warranty and ready for CPO status. I can't believe that the U.K. is any different?
For people who do low to mid range mileage and like a new car every 3 years leasing makes a huge amount of sense. For example, BMW 330i x drive. MSRP $43,395 plus tax. Lease for $558 per month (ave with cash down and tax rolled in) with 10k miles per year allowed. Or finance for 60 months at 2.91% = $835 per month. So after 36 months on the lease you've paid $20,088. On the loan you've paid $30,060 and owe $20,040. The car is worth $24k assuming a 55% residual. You've saved $6k by leasing , you haven't had to worry about depreciation and you're now driving a new car.
In reality if the buyer stays with the same brand he's probably flipped into a new lease after 30 or 32 months as most manufacturers offer early lease termination for repeat customers, making leasing even more attractive.
Maybe the U.K. is different but I can't think why,.
Best post on this thread, I reckon.For people who do low to mid range mileage and like a new car every 3 years leasing makes a huge amount of sense. For example, BMW 330i x drive. MSRP $43,395 plus tax. Lease for $558 per month (ave with cash down and tax rolled in) with 10k miles per year allowed. Or finance for 60 months at 2.91% = $835 per month. So after 36 months on the lease you've paid $20,088. On the loan you've paid $30,060 and owe $20,040. The car is worth $24k assuming a 55% residual. You've saved $6k by leasing , you haven't had to worry about depreciation and you're now driving a new car.
In reality if the buyer stays with the same brand he's probably flipped into a new lease after 30 or 32 months as most manufacturers offer early lease termination for repeat customers, making leasing even more attractive.
Maybe the U.K. is different but I can't think why,.
TLandCruiser said:
That's my point, I earn 55k a year and I would not want to pay £400 - £500 a month on a car, my old land cruiser keeps on ticking along and never needs anything other than a service.
So you must be taking home in the region of 3K a month after deductions, and you reckon 400 a month to drive around in a nice new car all the time is unacceptably dear? It's 2017, it's not a lot. Dog Star said:
unrepentant said:
Here in the USA most of the major manufacturers own their own finance houses and leases are run through those sources. The 3 yr lease is usually the most attractive as it means that the dealer network has a prime stock of used inventory coming back to them still under warranty and ready for CPO status. I can't believe that the U.K. is any different?
For people who do low to mid range mileage and like a new car every 3 years leasing makes a huge amount of sense. For example, BMW 330i x drive. MSRP $43,395 plus tax. Lease for $558 per month (ave with cash down and tax rolled in) with 10k miles per year allowed. Or finance for 60 months at 2.91% = $835 per month. So after 36 months on the lease you've paid $20,088. On the loan you've paid $30,060 and owe $20,040. The car is worth $24k assuming a 55% residual. You've saved $6k by leasing , you haven't had to worry about depreciation and you're now driving a new car.
In reality if the buyer stays with the same brand he's probably flipped into a new lease after 30 or 32 months as most manufacturers offer early lease termination for repeat customers, making leasing even more attractive.
Maybe the U.K. is different but I can't think why,.
Best post on this thread, I reckon.For people who do low to mid range mileage and like a new car every 3 years leasing makes a huge amount of sense. For example, BMW 330i x drive. MSRP $43,395 plus tax. Lease for $558 per month (ave with cash down and tax rolled in) with 10k miles per year allowed. Or finance for 60 months at 2.91% = $835 per month. So after 36 months on the lease you've paid $20,088. On the loan you've paid $30,060 and owe $20,040. The car is worth $24k assuming a 55% residual. You've saved $6k by leasing , you haven't had to worry about depreciation and you're now driving a new car.
In reality if the buyer stays with the same brand he's probably flipped into a new lease after 30 or 32 months as most manufacturers offer early lease termination for repeat customers, making leasing even more attractive.
Maybe the U.K. is different but I can't think why,.
TLandCruiser said:
That's my point, I earn 55k a year and I would not want to pay £400 - £500 a month on a car, my old land cruiser keeps on ticking along and never needs anything other than a service.
So you must be taking home in the region of 3K a month after deductions, and you reckon 400 a month to drive around in a nice new car all the time is unacceptably dear? It's 2017, it's not a lot. but 90% of them are zero contribution and only BIK to pay at around £50 per month.
I need to get myself one of those! no insurance worries, no maintenance, and 40p per mile on fuel.
Problem with the No choice thing is, most of the cars are Kia Ceeds, but a few unfortunates get Astras, Focii or Insignias which have a contribution element ( another £50 or so ) even before speccing up options
You can opt out.. but @ £50 p/mo.. whats the point? i cant run my shed for less than that
TLandCruiser said:
That's my point, I earn 55k a year and I would not want to pay £400 - £500 a month on a car, my old land cruiser keeps on ticking along and never needs anything other than a service. Someone said what's the difference between £500 a month and 50k every ten years?? Well I would not spend 50k cash on car either . I truely am intrigued how so many people can afford to the cars I see on the road near me. i'm still convinced people are more skint then they look to be.
Probably. My brother actually fell out with me when I called him out on his bulls. I truely am intrigued how so many people can afford to the cars I see on the road near me. i'm still convinced people are more skint then they look to be.
t trying to portray this facade of 'success' online. He was looking to save £100 on servicing his new m235i by taking it to an independent rather than to BMW and people on a forum were saying "It'll affect the value when you come to sell" and he was arguing the absolute toss with them saying "no it won't, it didn't when I sold my last car". I had to point out that he never sold his last car, he simply handed it back to BMW like he'll hand this one back and the lack of FSH will be their problem, not his. He went fking garrity.Why a grown middle aged man nearing 50 feels it necessary to lie through his teeth to win an argument with strangers on the internet I'll never know. Who is it impressing?
PurpleTurtle said:
What I've never really understood about the whole PCP deal in the residual value/deposit required for a new car.
Let's take a simple example. £30k car, £5k deposit, £299/month over 3 years. Doesn't exceed mileage. At the end of that 3 years, Mr Customer can either give the keys back and walk away, or strike another PCP deal. Where does he get his next deposit though? Does he need to have saved another £5k, in addition to his monthly payments, or does he have enough value in the car he's been running?
Surely his initial deposit £5,000 + (36 x £299) = £15,764 just covers the depreciation?
The car is worth (roughly) 50% residual after three years, yes?
Whenever I hear people harping on about PCP they always focus on the monthly payment. Surely they're missing the 'new deposit required every time' element. Is my man maths wrong?
You are exactly right.Let's take a simple example. £30k car, £5k deposit, £299/month over 3 years. Doesn't exceed mileage. At the end of that 3 years, Mr Customer can either give the keys back and walk away, or strike another PCP deal. Where does he get his next deposit though? Does he need to have saved another £5k, in addition to his monthly payments, or does he have enough value in the car he's been running?
Surely his initial deposit £5,000 + (36 x £299) = £15,764 just covers the depreciation?
The car is worth (roughly) 50% residual after three years, yes?
Whenever I hear people harping on about PCP they always focus on the monthly payment. Surely they're missing the 'new deposit required every time' element. Is my man maths wrong?
Put 3k deposit down and PCP a car for £250pm for three years then hand it back. (for example)
You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see it has not cost you £250pm, but in reality 305.50pm (average) when you factor in the deposit which you'll never get back.
Total cost = £11,000
SystemParanoia said:
You can opt out.. but @ £50 p/mo.. whats the point? i cant run my shed for less than that
This is it with the "run a shed/nearly new". Our other car is a V70 AWD, it's a great car and I love it, it satisfies my spannering urges and also does winter duties. However if I was to run that every day it would need things doing. It would need tyres, nore frequent servicing, taxing. It would also use about £150 a month more in fuel.When you add up all this stuff then leasing a new car really isn't that much more expensive and then there's the time and convenience aspect of it.
Similarly buying a 15K used car and bunging 30K miles on it a year - the savings aren't much over PCP/lease with depreciation, repairs etc. And you're still driving round in an old car.
I spent 25 years doing the barge, used thing then became converted to simply renting the things - wouldn't do it any other way now. On my 5th now.
SystemParanoia said:
Im sorry, but if my brother were like that i'd spend every waking moment winding him up!
I love it when peoples buttons are easy to press
Me and our younger brother used to all the time but he can't take banter, he absolutely doesn't do criticism, even if he's blatantly in the wrong. His response is to unfriend you on Facebook and block you, very grown up. I love it when peoples buttons are easy to press
For example, a while back he DOX'd some poor f
ker online. He posted some photos up on social media of ripped bin bags down his back alley and accused some poor fker of fly tipping outside an old ladies house. Posted up the guy's address and place of work trying to get it to go viral (he'd been through the rubbish and found his utility bills). I said to our younger brother "some poor fk has put his bins out and cats have ripped it open", so we messaged the guy and sure enough that was what happened (except it had been seagulls), the guy was mortified that his personal details had been plastered all over social media. I gave him my brothers address so he could resolve the matter and my brother, again, went garrity I'd done that. Blocked!It's all a bit sad really.
Dog Star said:
unrepentant said:
Here in the USA most of the major manufacturers own their own finance houses and leases are run through those sources. The 3 yr lease is usually the most attractive as it means that the dealer network has a prime stock of used inventory coming back to them still under warranty and ready for CPO status. I can't believe that the U.K. is any different?
For people who do low to mid range mileage and like a new car every 3 years leasing makes a huge amount of sense. For example, BMW 330i x drive. MSRP $43,395 plus tax. Lease for $558 per month (ave with cash down and tax rolled in) with 10k miles per year allowed. Or finance for 60 months at 2.91% = $835 per month. So after 36 months on the lease you've paid $20,088. On the loan you've paid $30,060 and owe $20,040. The car is worth $24k assuming a 55% residual. You've saved $6k by leasing , you haven't had to worry about depreciation and you're now driving a new car.
In reality if the buyer stays with the same brand he's probably flipped into a new lease after 30 or 32 months as most manufacturers offer early lease termination for repeat customers, making leasing even more attractive.
Maybe the U.K. is different but I can't think why,.
Best post on this thread, I reckon.For people who do low to mid range mileage and like a new car every 3 years leasing makes a huge amount of sense. For example, BMW 330i x drive. MSRP $43,395 plus tax. Lease for $558 per month (ave with cash down and tax rolled in) with 10k miles per year allowed. Or finance for 60 months at 2.91% = $835 per month. So after 36 months on the lease you've paid $20,088. On the loan you've paid $30,060 and owe $20,040. The car is worth $24k assuming a 55% residual. You've saved $6k by leasing , you haven't had to worry about depreciation and you're now driving a new car.
In reality if the buyer stays with the same brand he's probably flipped into a new lease after 30 or 32 months as most manufacturers offer early lease termination for repeat customers, making leasing even more attractive.
Maybe the U.K. is different but I can't think why,.
TLandCruiser said:
That's my point, I earn 55k a year and I would not want to pay £400 - £500 a month on a car, my old land cruiser keeps on ticking along and never needs anything other than a service.
So you must be taking home in the region of 3K a month after deductions, and you reckon 400 a month to drive around in a nice new car all the time is unacceptably dear? It's 2017, it's not a lot. I just find the concept that a brand new car is worth 2x a 3-year-old one mad.
Given the extremely high level of reliability these days I simply cannot justify twice the cost for what, to me, is EXACTLY the same car!!
walm said:
I still feel my point still stands which is while clearly MANY can happily afford £400 a month out of their take-home of £3k or whatever... is it really worth 2x what you can get for £200 a month.
I just find the concept that a brand new car is worth 2x a 3-year-old one mad.
Given the extremely high level of reliability these days I simply cannot justify twice the cost for what, to me, is EXACTLY the same car!!
Clearly you aren't concerned about image.I just find the concept that a brand new car is worth 2x a 3-year-old one mad.
Given the extremely high level of reliability these days I simply cannot justify twice the cost for what, to me, is EXACTLY the same car!!
A much discussed topic on ph but always interesting to listen to peoples views.
People are talking about low used prices, I don't see it. Golf r's should be 10 a penny, they're still over 20k. I was looking at 335d tourings, they are all £25k up at 2 years old, sometimes 3. If you got one at a decent discount there's no lease or pcp that would be anywhere near as cheap as that, but of course that assumes a private individual can sell for retail, which they generally can't.
My point is that a new car suddenly becomes more attractive with incentives/warranty/discounts etc etc.
Only the individual can answer to affordability, I was would have scoffed at someone not able to afford £400+ per month, now with a wife, a mortgage and a 20 week old priorities are very different and I can't see me singing up to anything like that again.
That said my local dealership is offering a vw cc tdi gt, 2 years old, on a pcp at £219 with no deposit. The difference in fuel between my daily shed at 30mpg and the cc at 55mpg would pay a large chunk of the payment and I'd be in a much nicer car. I've a couple of classics I tend to use during the summer months so it doesn't completely add up for me but I could see how it would for many.
People need to look at the total interest charges and divide them by the length of the agreement to find the true cost per month of the finance. This can be an eye opener.
People are talking about low used prices, I don't see it. Golf r's should be 10 a penny, they're still over 20k. I was looking at 335d tourings, they are all £25k up at 2 years old, sometimes 3. If you got one at a decent discount there's no lease or pcp that would be anywhere near as cheap as that, but of course that assumes a private individual can sell for retail, which they generally can't.
My point is that a new car suddenly becomes more attractive with incentives/warranty/discounts etc etc.
Only the individual can answer to affordability, I was would have scoffed at someone not able to afford £400+ per month, now with a wife, a mortgage and a 20 week old priorities are very different and I can't see me singing up to anything like that again.
That said my local dealership is offering a vw cc tdi gt, 2 years old, on a pcp at £219 with no deposit. The difference in fuel between my daily shed at 30mpg and the cc at 55mpg would pay a large chunk of the payment and I'd be in a much nicer car. I've a couple of classics I tend to use during the summer months so it doesn't completely add up for me but I could see how it would for many.
People need to look at the total interest charges and divide them by the length of the agreement to find the true cost per month of the finance. This can be an eye opener.
Oakey said:
walm said:
I still feel my point still stands which is while clearly MANY can happily afford £400 a month out of their take-home of £3k or whatever... is it really worth 2x what you can get for £200 a month.
I just find the concept that a brand new car is worth 2x a 3-year-old one mad.
Given the extremely high level of reliability these days I simply cannot justify twice the cost for what, to me, is EXACTLY the same car!!
Clearly you aren't concerned about image.I just find the concept that a brand new car is worth 2x a 3-year-old one mad.
Given the extremely high level of reliability these days I simply cannot justify twice the cost for what, to me, is EXACTLY the same car!!
(Massive badge snob - hence why I drive a Datsun
)I find my non-dated plate throws enough confusion that unless there is a very obvious new model launch, only the overly-bearded can tell the genuine age of my cars...
Let's face it, outside the rarefied air of PH and teenage boys, no one has a clue.
Lots of muppets asking if my red Lotus was a Ferrari FFS.
Almost no one noticing that my rep-mobile black 3 series had a 420bhp V8.
walm said:
I still feel my point still stands which is while clearly MANY can happily afford £400 a month out of their take-home of £3k or whatever... is it really worth 2x what you can get for £200 a month??
It isn't though, is it? You've got tyres, tax, servicing and general wear and tear to pay for. What's that work out at if you want to keep your car in tip top condition and do 15K a year. 100 a month sound fair? Some electronic box goes pop and your savings have completely been wiped out.So now you're driving a 3 year old car to save 100 a month AND you still have to deal with all the above time-wise.
For me at least it's a no-brainer. If things change as per the OP then I'll go back to buying older cars, but at the moment the ball is, for me, firmly in the lease court.
Dog Star said:
SystemParanoia said:
You can opt out.. but @ £50 p/mo.. whats the point? i cant run my shed for less than that
This is it with the "run a shed/nearly new". Our other car is a V70 AWD, it's a great car and I love it, it satisfies my spannering urges and also does winter duties. However if I was to run that every day it would need things doing. It would need tyres, nore frequent servicing, taxing. It would also use about £150 a month more in fuel.When you add up all this stuff then leasing a new car really isn't that much more expensive and then there's the time and convenience aspect of it.
Similarly buying a 15K used car and bunging 30K miles on it a year - the savings aren't much over PCP/lease with depreciation, repairs etc. And you're still driving round in an old car.
I spent 25 years doing the barge, used thing then became converted to simply renting the things - wouldn't do it any other way now. On my 5th now.
£50 or £100 per mth with no deposit, no worries about exceeding any arbitrary mileage limits, no servicing and no insurance.
http://www.whatcar.com/car-leasing/deals/honda/civ...
lay down £1k deposit + £150 p/mo ( 6+23 ) up the wall, including having to insure and service the thing, on top of still having to pay for fuel too... and then times it by x2 as I cant treat myself to a new car and force the wife to keep on shedding!
Finally at @ 8k p/a we'll never be able to go on holiday ever again, or visit friends, or have any kind of private life as we would exceed the mileage, unless we get the mileage of the car "adjusted" every year.
sheds cost between £2-£500 with 12mths MOT.. if they last the year great! ill have saved up another 500 for next year, rinse and repeat.
I cant see myself finding a "spare" £2k every 2 years ontop of £300+ p/mo ( more than my mortgage! ) when i have kids to raise and home improvements to fund.
Edited by SystemParanoia on Friday 6th January 10:34
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