Discussion
Mr GrimNasty said:
Man is part of 'nature', whatever man does is part of nature.
It is only your pretentious superior sensitivities that class it as barbaric - which you consider 'wrong'.
Foxes get ripped apart by packs of wolves in 'nature'.
Fox hunting should never have been banned - it is typical of how a deranged PC screaming minority can impose their will through the democratic process simply because the other 95% just don't care so MPs support the politically correct outcome.
But should the government waste any more time on this farce now it has been banned, absolutely not.
by your crazy logic you could say that if pack of thieves broke into your house, stabbed you and stole your car it was natural because was are nature and they were doing it for the thrill of the chaseIt is only your pretentious superior sensitivities that class it as barbaric - which you consider 'wrong'.
Foxes get ripped apart by packs of wolves in 'nature'.
Fox hunting should never have been banned - it is typical of how a deranged PC screaming minority can impose their will through the democratic process simply because the other 95% just don't care so MPs support the politically correct outcome.
But should the government waste any more time on this farce now it has been banned, absolutely not.
Mr GrimNasty said:
Fox hunting should never have been banned - it is typical of how a deranged PC screaming minority can impose their will through the democratic process simply because the other 95% just don't care so MPs support the politically correct outcome.
I know that polls aren't really to be trusted, but didn't the last one show that 84% of those polled were against fox hunting?justinio said:
Lol I've never in my life seen a bull ravage a chicken coop or slaughter lambs. So, how that compares to fox hunting I've no idea.
A 'sport' where an animal is killed in a needlessly cruel way, nope, you're right. Literally no comparison. 
If people want to chase about the countryside on horses, no problem.
If they want to then shoot the fox, no problem.
It is tearing the fox to pieces with dogs when there are more humane methods of dispatch that I have an issue with.
kingston12 said:
Goaty Bill 2 said:
stuff
That is a very good explanation of the issues. A lot of this is going to depend on upbringing and norms.From my perspective, I don't like the fact that people get a 'thrill' from the chase or the kill, in fact I find it quite disturbing. I would do regardless of who was doing it - toffs on horseback wearing red tunics or oiks on mopeds wearing tracksuits.
I don't feel the same way about shooting, even if it is just for sport rather than food, but I can understand why people wouldn't like that either.
Your point is however clear and taken at it's value.
I think if people had lived next to the farmer that rises in the dark of a mid summer 'morning' to continue work on his tractor/thresher for the day's work to come, or to repair the fences for their cattle or sheep or chicken coups, then see them driving that same tractor home in the dark with the headlights on, then going to feed or muck out the chickens, sheep, cattle, they might have a greater appreciation of what these people do.
If my fifth generation neighbour farmer should tell me that be believes that having the hunt on his land is more beneficial (not forgetting free), to the reduction of foxes, as compared to spending his day shooting them (foxes I mean) or paying someone to shoot them, then I am going to take his word for it.
The likelihood of his being correct are far greater than the the chances of a London urbanite animal rights protester 'knowing' 'better'.
As for the urbanite country dweller; if you don't like what country folk do, stay out of the country. It really isn't that hard, and they generally prefer to stay out of cities.
A little mutual respect for each side's values and experiences is all that's required.
Goaty Bill 2 said:
Having seen both in action, I will state my open preference for the red coat brigade.
Your point is however clear and taken at it's value.
I think if people had lived next to the farmer that rises in the dark of a mid summer 'morning' to continue work on his tractor/thresher for the day's work to come, or to repair the fences for their cattle or sheep or chicken coups, then see them driving that same tractor home in the dark with the headlights on, then going to feed or muck out the chickens, sheep, cattle, they might have a greater appreciation of what these people do.
If my fifth generation neighbour farmer should tell me that be believes that having the hunt on his land is more beneficial (not forgetting free), to the reduction of foxes, as compared to spending his day shooting them (foxes I mean) or paying someone to shoot them, then I am going to take his word for it.
The likelihood of his being correct are far greater than the the chances of a London urbanite animal rights protester 'knowing' 'better'.
As for the urbanite country dweller; if you don't like what country folk do, stay out of the country. It really isn't that hard, and they generally prefer to stay out of cities.
A little mutual respect for each side's values and experiences is all that's required.
How are they coping with the old Defender being discontinued, and the new one looking so modern?Your point is however clear and taken at it's value.
I think if people had lived next to the farmer that rises in the dark of a mid summer 'morning' to continue work on his tractor/thresher for the day's work to come, or to repair the fences for their cattle or sheep or chicken coups, then see them driving that same tractor home in the dark with the headlights on, then going to feed or muck out the chickens, sheep, cattle, they might have a greater appreciation of what these people do.
If my fifth generation neighbour farmer should tell me that be believes that having the hunt on his land is more beneficial (not forgetting free), to the reduction of foxes, as compared to spending his day shooting them (foxes I mean) or paying someone to shoot them, then I am going to take his word for it.
The likelihood of his being correct are far greater than the the chances of a London urbanite animal rights protester 'knowing' 'better'.
As for the urbanite country dweller; if you don't like what country folk do, stay out of the country. It really isn't that hard, and they generally prefer to stay out of cities.
A little mutual respect for each side's values and experiences is all that's required.
Goaty Bill 2 said:
Having seen both in action, I will state my open preference for the red coat brigade.
Your point is however clear and taken at it's value.
I think if people had lived next to the farmer that rises in the dark of a mid summer 'morning' to continue work on his tractor/thresher for the day's work to come, or to repair the fences for their cattle or sheep or chicken coups, then see them driving that same tractor home in the dark with the headlights on, then going to feed or muck out the chickens, sheep, cattle, they might have a greater appreciation of what these people do.
If my fifth generation neighbour farmer should tell me that be believes that having the hunt on his land is more beneficial (not forgetting free), to the reduction of foxes, as compared to spending his day shooting them (foxes I mean) or paying someone to shoot them, then I am going to take his word for it.
The likelihood of his being correct are far greater than the the chances of a London urbanite animal rights protester 'knowing' 'better'.
As for the urbanite country dweller; if you don't like what country folk do, stay out of the country. It really isn't that hard, and they generally prefer to stay out of cities.
A little mutual respect for each side's values and experiences is all that's required.
Don't consider myself a Townie & farmers don't pay to have foxes shot, they have people beating their doors down for rights to shoot their land.Your point is however clear and taken at it's value.
I think if people had lived next to the farmer that rises in the dark of a mid summer 'morning' to continue work on his tractor/thresher for the day's work to come, or to repair the fences for their cattle or sheep or chicken coups, then see them driving that same tractor home in the dark with the headlights on, then going to feed or muck out the chickens, sheep, cattle, they might have a greater appreciation of what these people do.
If my fifth generation neighbour farmer should tell me that be believes that having the hunt on his land is more beneficial (not forgetting free), to the reduction of foxes, as compared to spending his day shooting them (foxes I mean) or paying someone to shoot them, then I am going to take his word for it.
The likelihood of his being correct are far greater than the the chances of a London urbanite animal rights protester 'knowing' 'better'.
As for the urbanite country dweller; if you don't like what country folk do, stay out of the country. It really isn't that hard, and they generally prefer to stay out of cities.
A little mutual respect for each side's values and experiences is all that's required.
budgie smuggler said:
justinio said:
Lol I've never in my life seen a bull ravage a chicken coop or slaughter lambs. So, how that compares to fox hunting I've no idea.
A 'sport' where an animal is killed in a needlessly cruel way, nope, you're right. Literally no comparison. If people want to chase about the countryside on horses, no problem.
If they want to then shoot the fox, no problem.
It is tearing the fox to pieces with dogs when there are more humane methods of dispatch that I have an issue with.
There are so many pressing issues to deal with - the NHS, education, Putin, Islamist terrorism, climate change, etc, etc, and THIS is what people choose to get upset and waste time on?
I don't care whether fox hunting is banned or not.
There is an argument that hunting with hounds weeds out the weaker /older foxes and so benefits the breed. Unless we are going to be investing into care homes for retired foxes their fate in nature is pretty savage too.
In the USA they have introduced wolves to Yellowstone park torip the deer apart keep the deer population down and this is seen as a good thing by naturalists. We don't have wolves in the UK to control wild animal populations and hunting with a rifle cannot discriminate between old infirm animals and young ones.
But, I don't much care either way.
I don't care whether fox hunting is banned or not.
There is an argument that hunting with hounds weeds out the weaker /older foxes and so benefits the breed. Unless we are going to be investing into care homes for retired foxes their fate in nature is pretty savage too.
In the USA they have introduced wolves to Yellowstone park to
But, I don't much care either way.
rgw2012 said:
If you had a cat or dog would you ever let it out in the garden or would you chastise anyone who owns one for doing so because you get upset when nature takes its course? Would you rather the owners shot the birds/mice/hedgehogs they tear to bits or are you happy that its nature?
That's getting desperate!We own dogs & cats, the dogs have never torn anything to shreds like most dogs I suspect.
Quite how you are comparing cats doing what comes naturally to them and hunters consciously deciding to hunt down & rip foxes apart with packs of hounds is beyond me.
ks into one post.
LordHaveMurci said:
rgw2012 said:
If you had a cat or dog would you ever let it out in the garden or would you chastise anyone who owns one for doing so because you get upset when nature takes its course? Would you rather the owners shot the birds/mice/hedgehogs they tear to bits or are you happy that its nature?
That's getting desperate!We own dogs & cats, the dogs have never torn anything to shreds like most dogs I suspect.
Quite how you are comparing cats doing what comes naturally to them and hunters consciously deciding to hunt down & rip foxes apart with packs of hounds is beyond me.
You stating that "hunters consciously deciding to hunt down & rip foxes apart with packs of hounds" shows how you are missing the point. The fox is not imprisoned in any way and can get away from a chasing pack of hounds who are chasing the fox because that's what they do naturally - same as a cat or dog hunting and killing a prey (that is also free to run away) in someone's back garden that has been let out by their owner.
Glad you haven't experienced any killings by your cat or dog (to your knowledge anyway), but it is a natural and common occurrence. You clearly haven't read how dogs viciously attack their prey, be that another animal or a child or surprise, surprise a fox. Just because you don't think your animals have done it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen regularly by others animals but I suspect you choose to turn a blind eye to it for convenience of argument.
WCZ said:
+1
it's vile, I can't fathom how people enjoy it or any form of hunting for entertainment.
It has nothing to do with it being a class issue as some people are making it out to be.
Does it matter that you can't fathom how people enjoy it and that you find it vile? I.e. does killing an animal become more wrong if someone enjoys the kill rather than killing the animal reluctantly?it's vile, I can't fathom how people enjoy it or any form of hunting for entertainment.
It has nothing to do with it being a class issue as some people are making it out to be.
Ayahuasca said:
There are so many pressing issues to deal with - the NHS, education, Putin, Islamist terrorism, climate change, etc, etc, and THIS is what people choose to get upset and waste time on?
I don't care whether fox hunting is banned or not.
There is an argument that hunting with hounds weeds out the weaker /older foxes and so benefits the breed. Unless we are going to be investing into care homes for retired foxes their fate in nature is pretty savage too.
In the USA they have introduced wolves to Yellowstone park torip the deer apart keep the deer population down and this is seen as a good thing by naturalists. We don't have wolves in the UK to control wild animal populations and hunting with a rifle cannot discriminate between old infirm animals and young ones.
But, I don't much care either way.
You forgot the 're' as in reintroduced... After they were all killed by government predator programmes which should never have happened.I don't care whether fox hunting is banned or not.
There is an argument that hunting with hounds weeds out the weaker /older foxes and so benefits the breed. Unless we are going to be investing into care homes for retired foxes their fate in nature is pretty savage too.
In the USA they have introduced wolves to Yellowstone park to
But, I don't much care either way.
Goaty Bill 2 said:
Having seen both in action, I will state my open preference for the red coat brigade.
Your point is however clear and taken at it's value.
I think if people had lived next to the farmer that rises in the dark of a mid summer 'morning' to continue work on his tractor/thresher for the day's work to come, or to repair the fences for their cattle or sheep or chicken coups, then see them driving that same tractor home in the dark with the headlights on, then going to feed or muck out the chickens, sheep, cattle, they might have a greater appreciation of what these people do.
If my fifth generation neighbour farmer should tell me that be believes that having the hunt on his land is more beneficial (not forgetting free), to the reduction of foxes, as compared to spending his day shooting them (foxes I mean) or paying someone to shoot them, then I am going to take his word for it.
The likelihood of his being correct are far greater than the the chances of a London urbanite animal rights protester 'knowing' 'better'.
As for the urbanite country dweller; if you don't like what country folk do, stay out of the country. It really isn't that hard, and they generally prefer to stay out of cities.
A little mutual respect for each side's values and experiences is all that's required.
If it is more effective then why don't they hunt the foxes every day in this method? Why is it only an annual event, to kill one fox? Or did these hunts happen every weekend in the past (I don't believe they did, I might be wrong?)Your point is however clear and taken at it's value.
I think if people had lived next to the farmer that rises in the dark of a mid summer 'morning' to continue work on his tractor/thresher for the day's work to come, or to repair the fences for their cattle or sheep or chicken coups, then see them driving that same tractor home in the dark with the headlights on, then going to feed or muck out the chickens, sheep, cattle, they might have a greater appreciation of what these people do.
If my fifth generation neighbour farmer should tell me that be believes that having the hunt on his land is more beneficial (not forgetting free), to the reduction of foxes, as compared to spending his day shooting them (foxes I mean) or paying someone to shoot them, then I am going to take his word for it.
The likelihood of his being correct are far greater than the the chances of a London urbanite animal rights protester 'knowing' 'better'.
As for the urbanite country dweller; if you don't like what country folk do, stay out of the country. It really isn't that hard, and they generally prefer to stay out of cities.
A little mutual respect for each side's values and experiences is all that's required.
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