Public Sector

[anonymous-user]

tangent police said:

st a brick! How are they planning to deal with that little lot?

they arn't. according to the government, and unsuprisingly the TUC, because these are future liabilites they do not need to be funded now....

[Elroy Blue]

Guybrush said:

the rest are really parasites.

Really, so all the private sector b(w)ankers that have sucked up billions in taxpayers money, continue to pay themselves billions in bonuses and are quite open about all the ways they avoid paying tax are worthwhile contributors!

I know someone who has a business that has a turnover of a million pounds plus and pays himself a handsome salary. He pays considerably less tax than I do (virtually none). He is quite open about how he fiddles things. Talk about head in the sand. It is seemingly ok to f*ck over the system, in fact it's positively encouraged. However, work in the public sector (that'll be the Police/Fire/Ambulance/Nurses/Doctors/Armed Forces etc etc) and you're a parasite.

You'll forgive me if I think you're a c@ck!

[Dupont666]

Elroy Blue said:

Guybrush said:

the rest are really parasites.

Really, so all the private sector b(w)ankers that have sucked up billions in taxpayers money, continue to pay themselves billions in bonuses and are quite open about all the ways they avoid paying tax are worthwhile contributors!

I know someone who has a business that has a turnover of a million pounds plus and pays himself a handsome salary. He pays considerably less tax than I do (virtually none). He is quite open about how he fiddles things. Talk about head in the sand. It is seemingly ok to f*ck over the system, in fact it's positively encouraged. However, work in the public sector (that'll be the Police/Fire/Ambulance/Nurses/Doctors/Armed Forces etc etc) and you're a parasite.

You'll forgive me if I think you're a c@ck!

SO all you can remember in the last decade or so is the pittance of an amount that was paid to save RBS, what about the hundreds of billions in taxs raise by those wkers in the past decade that those parasite have fking wasted...

You'll forgive me if i think you are a narrow minded tw@t, you do realise that RBS will pay it all back and then some? When are you parasites going to do something like that and actually give something back instead of take... take... take???

In the boom times public sectors got pay rises... for doing what?? It was the wkers bring the money in... go figure!!

NHS, teachers and the like are excused from the take take take comment...

[Futuo]

oyster said:

Serious question...

Where do you draw the line at what jobs are actually necessary in the public sector?

Can we all survive without them with a decent standard of living, if yes then they are not essential.

Nurse/Doctor - essential
Ethnic Diversity type bod – superfluous
Policeman – essential
Bin inspector – superfluous

Should not be that hard to sort the wheat from the chaff.

Elroy Blue said:

However, work in the public sector (that'll be the Police/Fire/Ambulance/Nurses/Doctors/Armed Forces etc etc) and you're a parasite.

And what of those in the public sector that aren't any of those things?

Take the CSA for example, a complete waste of taxpayers’ money, Merseyside area (just by coincidence I think not). They still have not got into the black yet, it would have been cheaper had they never been set up in the first place, complete parasites to a man/woman. Utter waste of time; sack the lot of them for gross incompetence with no redundancy or pension.

[Elroy Blue]

Utter tosh! My pay never kept up with the private sector (and I pay all my taxes!) So the bail out of the b(w)ankers is a 'pitiful amount'. Really, I must be looking at another figure than you. Why is the country bankrupt again!

You conveniently ignore the mass avoidance of tax, screwing the system and banking vast bonuses! Now you've f*cked everything up, find someone else to blame (Hitler was very good at that!)

There's a thread on PH talking about Police Officers having to deal with fatals. I must remember that as a Public sector worker, I'm actually a 'Parasite', who makes no contribution to the country!

[Deva Link]

Futuo said:

Take the CSA for example, a complete waste of taxpayers’ money, Merseyside area (just by coincidence I think not). They still have not got into the black yet, it would have been cheaper had they never been set up in the first place, complete parasites to a man/woman. Utter waste of time; sack the lot of them for gross incompetence with no redundancy or pension.

I realise that that's just a cheap soundbite, but it's important to realise that the CSA isn't just about the money - it's about holding fathers responsible.

It isn't cost effective to prosecute people in court but should everything from parking to murder be dealt with by fixed penalty?

Or treating old people in hospital - let's just bring back Harold Shipman, he saved the NHS millions.

[anonymous-user]

Elroy Blue said:

You conveniently ignore the mass avoidance of tax

give it a fvcking rest. EVERY banker i know is PAYE, including bonus.

Edited by fbrs on Friday 26th February 17:50

[a_bread]

Elroy Blue said:

Guybrush said:

the rest are really parasites.

Really, so all the private sector b(w)ankers that have sucked up billions in taxpayers money, continue to pay themselves billions in bonuses and are quite open about all the ways they avoid paying tax are worthwhile contributors!

Sucked up billions? 20% of the City lost their jobs. Try replicating that throughout the rest of the private sector (most of the private sector aren't bankers), let alone the public sector and imagine the riots on the street. I'm not saying poor old bankers let's have sympathy for them amid their job cuts, but most of them don't earn massive amounts, there are a lot fewer of them now, and a lot of those associated with structured credit / securitisation are now no longer employed. A bank is like a collection of businesses involved in a wide array of activities. Many are profitable, some aren't (although those that aren't tend not to exist for long).

Much of the money associated with a so-called "bail out" is the acquisition of assets, not purely money thrown at banks/bankers. A lot of which can be sold off later and probably recouped, and more.

Elroy Blue said:

I know someone who has a business that has a turnover of a million pounds plus and pays himself a handsome salary. He pays considerably less tax than I do (virtually none). He is quite open about how he fiddles things. Talk about head in the sand. It is seemingly ok to f*ck over the system, in fact it's positively encouraged. However, work in the public sector (that'll be the Police/Fire/Ambulance/Nurses/Doctors/Armed Forces etc etc) and you're a parasite.

You'll forgive me if I think you're a c@ck!

What's wrong if it's within the law? Tax avoidance (not evasion) is nothing other than minimising your tax bill given the rules given the rules that exist at the time.

If taxation is not purely about revenue generation but also about behaviour modification (as governments, especially left wing ones, claim) then participants must be expected to act in such a way as to minimise their tax bill.

My problem with the public sector is that it costs a whole lot more than it did 10 years ago and doesn't deliver any more than it used to. This is not the fault of front line staff in Police / Fire / Ambulance / Nurses / Doctors / Armed Forces etc, but the fact that so many bureaucratic non-jobs have been created. New, pointless tiers of management etc. Plus a lot of the increased cost of hte public sector has gone into pay rises that outpace those in the private sector. This is not the result of market forces but the result of the government being weak kneed in the face of union militancy.

Not only are these non jobs unproductive, but they reduce the productivity of others. If you create a diversity committee or a gender awareness committee, the people on it need to show they have done something. So they introduce form filling, meetings, and courses, for other people in the public sector who would otherwise be getting on with their productive jobs (nursing, policing, etc). This is somehow considered important because the government would rather deliver services that are more diverse or gender-aware but at greater cost, rather than deliver services more productively. I blame Harriet Harman and her ilk.

[Johnnytheboy]

There was a union rep for the PCS on Today programme today complaining about everyone in the PS not getting a big pay rise or some such.

Why are they always scousers?

[Dupont666]

Elroy Blue said:

Utter tosh! My pay never kept up with the private sector (and I pay all my taxes!) So the bail out of the b(w)ankers is a 'pitiful amount'. Really, I must be looking at another figure than you. Why is the country bankrupt again!

You conveniently ignore the mass avoidance of tax, screwing the system and banking vast bonuses! Now you've f*cked everything up, find someone else to blame (Hitler was very good at that!)

There's a thread on PH talking about Police Officers having to deal with fatals. I must remember that as a Public sector worker, I'm actually a 'Parasite', who makes no contribution to the country!

What do you actually do that is equivilent to the private sector job to state that you never got a rise?

This country is bankrupt due to the governemnt, the government waste alone last year was in excess of 100billion, that is fking up the country.

I like that... mass tax avoidance and then complaining at the bonuses.... you do realise that if the bonus is paid 40% (not including supertax) is paid in tax for more parasites...

Did the bankers fk up the pensions?
Did the bankers fk up the benefits system?
Did the bankers fk up healthcare to such an extent that an illegal immigrant takes precidence over my own mother who was complaining of shortness of breath and turned into blood clots on the lungs.
Did the bankers fk up the education system making the kids coming out of it now the dumbest around?
Did the bankers create worthless jobs?
Did the bankers create an extra layer of management that means all projects don come in on time and cost the taxpayers more money?

You bring up the parasite and then compare it with policeman/fireman/NHS staff/teachers and you know bloody well that they are not the parasites being mentioned.... but good job on the blinkers.

Private sector exists to make a profit otherwise it fails and then noone has a job... public sector... well who gives a st after all its the private sector that pays for it so waste as much as you like.

Thats the difference, private sector is efficent and effective and has to be to survive, the public sector can do what it wants and that needs to change.

[Futuo]

Elroy Blue said:

I must remember that as a Public sector worker, I'm actually a 'Parasite', who makes no contribution to the country!

What do you actually do? Would anybody other than you notice if you stopped working?

Deva Link said:

I realise that that's just a cheap soundbite, but it's important to realise that the CSA isn't just about the money - it's about holding fathers responsible.

Financially responsible I think you'll find, they have failed in their mission which ever way you look at it so should all be released to pursue employment elsewhere.

[bobbylondonuk]

for avoidance of doubt...any and every private sector worker will gladly pay more taxes if needed to get the following the best quality of life in return for best quality of service. and they are:

Police (crime fighters)
Fire department (fire fighters)
Coastguard, Border Agency (not civvies)
Armed forces (not civvies)
Education (teachers only)
Healthcare (doctors and nurses)
Judiciary

Every other department is unnecessary for us to live a responsible life. Every other govt department is there to make life a bit more easier...so that means absolute 100% efficiency for every penny raised via taxation. Is that the case? I think not...I think there is lot of waste and that is not acceptable no matter how upset the public sector workers feel about it. The reason all other departments exist is for the simple reason of delivering top class services with the budget available and nothing else!!! Welcome to the reality.

[anonymous-user]

Elroy Blue said:

b(w)ankers...Why is the country bankrupt again!

why don't you tell us?

Year National (public sector) Debt GBP Bn

1997 357 <- nulab took power with a promise to keep tory spending comitments for first term
1998 354
1999 354
2000 320 <- so far so good
2001 322 <- 2nd term, watch the rot start
2002 349
2003 380
2004 422
2005 462 <- party on!
2006 501
2007 602 <- woohoooo
2008 614 <- financial crisis
2009 794

Year UK Public sector unfunded pension liability (government figures)
1996 270bn
2002 380bn
2003 425bn
2004 460bn
2005 530bn
2006 650bn
2009 886bn

Edited by fbrs on Thursday 11th March 16:59

[a_bread]

fbrs said:

according to the government, and unsuprisingly the TUC, because these are future liabilites they do not need to be funded now....

And they introduced accounting standards to force the private sector to fund future pension liabilities explicitly upfront. One rule for them, another for the rest of us...

[anonymous-user]

a_bread said:

fbrs said:

according to the government, and unsuprisingly the TUC, because these are future liabilites they do not need to be funded now....

And they introduced accounting standards to force the private sector to fund future pension liabilities explicitly upfront. One rule for them, another for the rest of us...

oh it gets better... one public pension fund is fully funded. can you guess which one?

http://www.sirgeorgeyoung.org.uk/FAQ/newsitem.cfm?...

the government are even fiddling the numbers on the pension liabilities they arn't funding!! http://www.bnac.org/files/BNAC%20Release%20on%20pu...

note we are ONLY talking about public sector workers pensions here NOT the generic state pension

[a_bread]

fbrs said:

a_bread said:

fbrs said:

according to the government, and unsuprisingly the TUC, because these are future liabilites they do not need to be funded now....

And they introduced accounting standards to force the private sector to fund future pension liabilities explicitly upfront. One rule for them, another for the rest of us...

oh it gets better... one public pension fund is fully funded. can you guess which one?

http://www.sirgeorgeyoung.org.uk/FAQ/newsitem.cfm?...

the government are even fiddling the numbers on the pension liabilities they arn't funding!! http://www.bnac.org/files/BNAC%20Release%20on%20pu...

note we are ONLY talking about public sector workers pensions here NOT the generic state pension

I know, it's horrific. To be fair, local government schemes are funded, but this still leaves a huge load of government pensions (and the state pension) that aren't and whose future cost has exploded in recent years by an amount that dwarfs the size of the bank bailout (and there's a good chance of recouping at least some of the bank bailout money).

[Pupp]

bobbylondonuk said:

for avoidance of doubt...any and every private sector worker will gladly pay more taxes if needed to get the following the best quality of life in return for best quality of service. and they are:

Police (crime fighters)
Fire department (fire fighters)
Coastguard, Border Agency (not civvies)
Armed forces (not civvies)
Education (teachers only)
Healthcare (doctors and nurses)
Judiciary

Every other department is unnecessary for us to live a responsible life. Every other govt department is there to make life a bit more easier...so that means absolute 100% efficiency for every penny raised via taxation. Is that the case? I think not...I think there is lot of waste and that is not acceptable no matter how upset the public sector workers feel about it. The reason all other departments exist is for the simple reason of delivering top class services with the budget available and nothing else!!! Welcome to the reality.

Guess you don't use roads, want to eat safe food, breathe clean air, avoid being killed in your so productive private workplace, or control who builds what, where and to what standard then?

Think you need to look around you and think how the things you take for granted are actually delivered and sustained...

[Dupont666]

Pupp said:

bobbylondonuk said:

for avoidance of doubt...any and every private sector worker will gladly pay more taxes if needed to get the following the best quality of life in return for best quality of service. and they are:

Police (crime fighters)
Fire department (fire fighters)
Coastguard, Border Agency (not civvies)
Armed forces (not civvies)
Education (teachers only)
Healthcare (doctors and nurses)
Judiciary

Every other department is unnecessary for us to live a responsible life. Every other govt department is there to make life a bit more easier...so that means absolute 100% efficiency for every penny raised via taxation. Is that the case? I think not...I think there is lot of waste and that is not acceptable no matter how upset the public sector workers feel about it. The reason all other departments exist is for the simple reason of delivering top class services with the budget available and nothing else!!! Welcome to the reality.

Guess you don't use roads, want to eat safe food, breathe clean air, avoid being killed in your so productive private workplace, or control who builds what, where and to what standard then?

Think you need to look around you and think how the things you take for granted are actually delivered and sustained...

Roads - nope dont use them I use tube and rail as i have no car.
food - Supermarkets that i have to pay do that
Air - Wasnt aware public sector did anything other than produce hot air and hence global warming.
Killed in workplace - Paid security keep riff raff out.
Deliveries - Couriers and DHL since public sector ruined royal mail and do strikes every other day.

D-

try again

[Mojooo]

Public sector does a lot of regulation in all sorts of areas that Private suckers would abuse if they were not regulated.

An example - food labelling on shop bought food is regulated as if fresh food bought in shops (i.e take aways etc).

[beckerman]

Gentlemen, venting is all very well but some of the bile on this thread is pretty astonishing. Yes, there are non-jobs which could quite easily be ditched without anyone noticing, but can we please forget the cliched categories of nurse/teacher/fireman etc. as being the only things that belong in the public sector? There are lots of jobs which need to be done to keep the place ticking over but which either can't be done by the private sector due to a requirement for impartiality or won't be done by the private sectpr due to the simple fact that it's impossible to make a profit doing them.