Guy giving Bob Diamond a hard time on SKY now
Discussion
Soovy said:
tonym911 said:
Soovy said:
tonym911 said:
mattviatura said:
It appears impossible to discuss the issue reasonably.
The thread has descended to playground level, predictable really.
But the whole problem has arisen as a result of one of Mankind's most basic urges – greed. Why try to dignify it with some high-blown theory? It's all down to greed, simple as. It doesn't get much lower than that. For that reason it seems entirely appropriate to discuss it at what some may consider to be a 'playground' level. The thread has descended to playground level, predictable really.
"Oh no, I can't resist........."
Ridiculous. As stupid as a fat person wanting compensation from McDonalds because their delicious cheeseburgers were too cheap.
Wurls said:
Have you been refused a loan?
Of course. Hasn't everyone? That is not however the point. Contrary to Soovy's thinking, this is not a joke.Top bankers unbelievable sense of entitlement seems to blind them to the anger and hatred that their smug performances engender among those who have suffered in the economic mess which they did so much to create and from which they seem to be profiting so massively. Suppose Bob Diamond or Stephen Hester or Fred Goodwin were gunned down in the street. Do you think the public would sympathise with them, or would they say good riddance?
Then consider, is that an impossible scenario? I don't think so. Then where would their precious banking industry be? IMHO it's just a matter of time.
Wurls said:
cardigankid said:
Then noone is allowed to criticise or make any claims at all. Why not have a police state, then we can fight it out? It's going to happen. This country is really little better than Zimbabwe only we don't realise it yet.
Have you been refused a loan?earlier in the thread cardigankid said:
...and we are now back to a situation where you cannot get a business loan, even with a perfect credit record, unless you can prove in detail that you don't need it. I know, I've tried.
Alfa numeric said:
Wurls said:
cardigankid said:
Then noone is allowed to criticise or make any claims at all. Why not have a police state, then we can fight it out? It's going to happen. This country is really little better than Zimbabwe only we don't realise it yet.
Have you been refused a loan?earlier in the thread cardigankid said:
...and we are now back to a situation where you cannot get a business loan, even with a perfect credit record, unless you can prove in detail that you don't need it. I know, I've tried.
The reason banks aren't lending is because they got slated for so-called reckless lending, so they're being cautious. Now everyone is moaning about that.
Edited by Soovy on Wednesday 12th January 14:17
cardigankid said:
Wurls said:
Have you been refused a loan?
Of course. Hasn't everyone? That is not however the point. Contrary to Soovy's thinking, this is not a joke.Top bankers unbelievable sense of entitlement seems to blind them to the anger and hatred that their smug performances engender among those who have suffered in the economic mess which they did so much to create and from which they seem to be profiting so massively. Suppose Bob Diamond or Stephen Hester or Fred Goodwin were gunned down in the street. Do you think the public would sympathise with them, or would they say good riddance?
Then consider, is that an impossible scenario? I don't think so. Then where would their precious banking industry be? IMHO it's just a matter of time.
tonym911 said:
Respectfully, your simile isn't accurate. When the general population has no reason to suspect that the economy is anything other than rosy, of course they are going to take advantage of credit opportunities offered to them. They want to improve their lives. That's another natural human trait. I don't recall many 'health warnings' being issued by lenders when the money was being sprayed about. I do however remember when ordinary people were mis-sold pensions. For many that was the start of a realisation that those in finance might not all be trustworthy. That was a real quantum shift in perception.
I agree. While it is easy to be sarcastic about people getting themselves into trouble on a personal level, you should remember that the Government was dependent on a house price and retail prosperity bubble to keep their economic policy on the road. Individuals helped fund the financial services industry by buying worthless financial 'products' including pensions.The Government encouraged it, with that idiot Brown's 'No return to Boom and Bust', and the individuals who were drawn in will have to dig themselves out. Unlike banks and their erstwhile close buddy corporate borrowers, whose loans are being written off by the hundreds of millions. The directors of these companies will not suffer as the little man will suffer. Nor will the bankers who gave them the money. Once the bad debts are written off they can get back to making 'profits', and of course making the bonusses to while they feel so clearly entitled. In due course I have little doubt that these 'profits' will turn out to be holdings in companies which will themselves turn out to be valueless. If politicians were not so spineless they would get rid of these charlatans.
Soovy said:
cardigankid said:
Wurls said:
Have you been refused a loan?
Suppose Bob Diamond or Stephen Hester or Fred Goodwin were gunned down in the street. Do you think the public would sympathise with them, or would they say good riddance? Edited by cardigankid on Wednesday 12th January 14:21
tonym911 said:
Soovy said:
tonym911 said:
Soovy said:
tonym911 said:
mattviatura said:
It appears impossible to discuss the issue reasonably.
The thread has descended to playground level, predictable really.
But the whole problem has arisen as a result of one of Mankind's most basic urges – greed. Why try to dignify it with some high-blown theory? It's all down to greed, simple as. It doesn't get much lower than that. For that reason it seems entirely appropriate to discuss it at what some may consider to be a 'playground' level. The thread has descended to playground level, predictable really.
"Oh no, I can't resist........."
Ridiculous. As stupid as a fat person wanting compensation from McDonalds because their delicious cheeseburgers were too cheap.
Just because the off licence is full of vodka doesn't mean you have to drink a litre a day, does it?
L'Oreal generation. They're worth it.
Soovy said:
cardigankid said:
Wurls said:
Have you been refused a loan?
Of course. Hasn't everyone? That is not however the point. Contrary to Soovy's thinking, this is not a joke.Top bankers unbelievable sense of entitlement seems to blind them to the anger and hatred that their smug performances engender among those who have suffered in the economic mess which they did so much to create and from which they seem to be profiting so massively. Suppose Bob Diamond or Stephen Hester or Fred Goodwin were gunned down in the street. Do you think the public would sympathise with them, or would they say good riddance?
Then consider, is that an impossible scenario? I don't think so. Then where would their precious banking industry be? IMHO it's just a matter of time.
Don't be naive Soovy.
In case you didn't read it the first time - While it is easy to be sarcastic about people getting themselves into trouble on a personal level, you should remember that the Government was dependent on a house price and retail prosperity bubble to keep their economic policy on the road. Individuals helped fund the financial services industry by buying worthless financial 'products' including pensions.The Government encouraged it, with that idiot Brown's 'No return to Boom and Bust', and the individuals who were drawn in will have to dig themselves out. Unlike banks and their erstwhile close buddy corporate borrowers, whose loans are being written off by the hundreds of millions. The directors of these companies will not suffer as the little man will suffer. They will keep their country estates and their genteel dude ranches. Nor will the bankers who gave them the money suffer. Once the bad debts are written off they can get back to making 'profits', and of course the bonusses to which they feel so clearly entitled. In due course I have little doubt that these 'profits' will turn out to be holdings in companies which will themselves turn out to be valueless.
In case you didn't read it the first time - While it is easy to be sarcastic about people getting themselves into trouble on a personal level, you should remember that the Government was dependent on a house price and retail prosperity bubble to keep their economic policy on the road. Individuals helped fund the financial services industry by buying worthless financial 'products' including pensions.The Government encouraged it, with that idiot Brown's 'No return to Boom and Bust', and the individuals who were drawn in will have to dig themselves out. Unlike banks and their erstwhile close buddy corporate borrowers, whose loans are being written off by the hundreds of millions. The directors of these companies will not suffer as the little man will suffer. They will keep their country estates and their genteel dude ranches. Nor will the bankers who gave them the money suffer. Once the bad debts are written off they can get back to making 'profits', and of course the bonusses to which they feel so clearly entitled. In due course I have little doubt that these 'profits' will turn out to be holdings in companies which will themselves turn out to be valueless.
Edited by cardigankid on Wednesday 12th January 14:30
cardigankid said:
tonym911 said:
Respectfully, your simile isn't accurate. When the general population has no reason to suspect that the economy is anything other than rosy, of course they are going to take advantage of credit opportunities offered to them. They want to improve their lives. That's another natural human trait. I don't recall many 'health warnings' being issued by lenders when the money was being sprayed about. I do however remember when ordinary people were mis-sold pensions. For many that was the start of a realisation that those in finance might not all be trustworthy. That was a real quantum shift in perception.
I agree. While it is easy to be sarcastic about people getting themselves into trouble on a personal level, you should remember that the Government was dependent on a house price and retail prosperity bubble to keep their economic policy on the road. Individuals helped fund the financial services industry by buying worthless financial 'products' including pensions.The Government encouraged it, with that idiot Brown's 'No return to Boom and Bust', and the individuals who were drawn in will have to dig themselves out. Unlike banks and their erstwhile close buddy corporate borrowers, whose loans are being written off by the hundreds of millions. The directors of these companies will not suffer as the little man will suffer. Nor will the bankers who gave them the money. Once the bad debts are written off they can get back to making 'profits', and of course making the bonusses to while they feel so clearly entitled. In due course I have little doubt that these 'profits' will turn out to be holdings in companies which will themselves turn out to be valueless. If politicians were not so spineless they would get rid of these charlatans.
Banks make money on one principle...buy low sell high...they need muppets to give them money on a low cost and need more muppets to take money on higher cost. The more muppets they get on more differential rates...more profit for them!! Bonuses are like any other commissions paid...generate profit..take a % of it. roughly 10-15% going by the numbers thrown around the media in the past few years.
So in the last decade....govt spunked on the back of tax receipts, which were paid on the back of banking profits/ gambling winnings and VAT on bankers excess spending for a decade.
The bankers generated profits on the back of mankind's greed for material consumption/ Jones's syndrome.
El Gordo said no boom and bust, those who live in the real world knew it would bust one day.
Now everyone blames bankers. Convenient....what about the El Gordo and the greedy population?
So in the last decade....govt spunked on the back of tax receipts, which were paid on the back of banking profits/ gambling winnings and VAT on bankers excess spending for a decade.
The bankers generated profits on the back of mankind's greed for material consumption/ Jones's syndrome.
El Gordo said no boom and bust, those who live in the real world knew it would bust one day.
Now everyone blames bankers. Convenient....what about the El Gordo and the greedy population?
tonym911 said:
Soovy said:
tonym911 said:
mattviatura said:
It appears impossible to discuss the issue reasonably.
The thread has descended to playground level, predictable really.
But the whole problem has arisen as a result of one of Mankind's most basic urges – greed. Why try to dignify it with some high-blown theory? It's all down to greed, simple as. It doesn't get much lower than that. For that reason it seems entirely appropriate to discuss it at what some may consider to be a 'playground' level. The thread has descended to playground level, predictable really.
I recall a couple interviewed by the BBC a couple of years ago. They had defaulted on their first(!) mortgage payment because "it was christmas and we had to buy presents". They had taken out a 125% mortgage. When asked why they had taken out 125% for home improvements, they replied that no it was to go on holiday.
Both tonym911 and cardigankid seem to be lumping together any sort of financial services firm whatsoever, be it retail bank, building society, backstreet adviser pedding pensions.
An MP pleaded guilty to expenses fiddling the other day. Therefore, all public sector workers are criminals. Every nurse, doctor, bin man. Their time is coming, I can tell you!
However here's a quick reminder for anyone without their hands over their ears shouting "la la la".
Investment bank - pays most staff in bonuses (commission), not salary. As talked about on the telly. Does not have high street branches, does not issue credit cards, does not do mortgages, does not do small business loans (rarely does any loans at all, actually), does not do overdrafts, does not sell pensions, does not deal at all with individual customers or small businesses. Examples: Jefferies, Lazard, Piper Jaffray, Wood & Co, Goldman Sachs.
Retail bank - does not pay bonuses, except to the handful of Board members as any large company. Usually has a shop on the high street. Does current accounts, savings accounts, sells insurance. Examples: Northern Rock. Lloyds-TSB-HBOS.
Universal bank - holding company which has both investment banking and retail banking subsidiaries. Sometimes has a fund management subsidiary as well. Examples: Barclays, Deutsche Bank, Citibank, RBS. Société Générale. Bank of America. JP Morgan Chase.
In other words, the people getting buckets of cash are not the same people deciding whether to give Joe Bloggs or his small business a loan or an overdraft. These people are paid quite measly amounts. I know this because my cousin is a branch manager and let me tell you, she's far from rich.
tonym911 said:
The crucial difference is that those at the top of the greed pile will always ensure they have enough reserves to come out smelling of roses. Ordinary Joes don't have that luxury.
Correct, and Ordinary Joes have to get THEMSELVES out of trouble, but the rich and the powerful don't.munky said:
...a whole lot of stuff we already knew...
Proving what exactly? I never suggested that retail branches, investment banks and hedge funds were the same thing. There is not one crime here but many, but they all stem from a protected market and a lack of transparency.And while I may have suggested that the public sector are inefficient and often massively overpaid for what they do, I did not lump them in with MP's whom I characterized as pompous thieving arrogant criminals.
Edited by cardigankid on Wednesday 12th January 15:24
munky said:
Both tonym911 and cardigankid seem to be lumping together any sort of financial services firm whatsoever, be it retail bank, building society, backstreet adviser pedding pensions.
An MP pleaded guilty to expenses fiddling the other day. Therefore, all public sector workers are criminals.
Eh? An MP pleaded guilty to expenses fiddling the other day. Therefore, all public sector workers are criminals.
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