Cummings and goings...

[Tuna]

JeffreyD said:

The interview was a charade.
And she's taking the piss if she expects us to believe otherwise.

That's code for "I wanted it to confirm all the things I believe about the government, but it didn't."

I'm really no fan of Kuenssberg, but Cummings is not as big a deal as he thinks he is, and the "awful truth" about the government is a lot more mundane than you think it is.

[JeffreyD]

Tuna said:

That's code for "I wanted it to confirm all the things I believe about the government, but it didn't."

I'm really no fan of Kuenssberg, but Cummings is not as big a deal as he thinks he is, and the "awful truth" about the government is a lot more mundane than you think it is.

Cummings has been feeding Kuennssberg her lines for years.

[Maximus Decimus Meridius]

Tuna said:

JeffreyD said:

The interview was a charade.
And she's taking the piss if she expects us to believe otherwise.

That's code for "I wanted it to confirm all the things I believe about the government, but it didn't."

I'm really no fan of Kuenssberg, but Cummings is not as big a deal as he thinks he is, and the "awful truth" about the government is a lot more mundane than you think it is.

I think Cummings was pretty clear. He says change is needed to the political system. I agree with him 100% there.

What you have currently is an elite boys/ girls club who are only interested in helping themselves and their friends. Cummings says lots of them are incompetent and unfit for office. He is also scathing of Whitehall in general.

If there was a message to be taken away from the interview it is that.
The rest is all noise.

[Pit Pony]

https://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/why-are-you-such-a-tt-and-five-other-questions-dominic-cummings-should-have-been-asked-20210721210377




I think this link sums it up for most people.

It broken probably.

Edited by Pit Pony on Wednesday 21st July 15:12

Because of the word beginning with t and ending in t with an A and a w in the middle.

Edited by Pit Pony on Wednesday 21st July 15:13

[biggbn]

Maximus Decimus Meridius said:

I think Cummings was pretty clear. He says change is needed to the political system. I agree with him 100% there.

What you have currently is an elite boys/ girls club who are only interested in helping themselves and their friends. Cummings says lots of them are incompetent and unfit for office. He is also scathing of Whitehall in general.

If there was a message to be taken away from the interview it is that.
The rest is all noise.

100% agreed.

[Unknown_User]

JeffreyD said:

Tuna said:

That's code for "I wanted it to confirm all the things I believe about the government, but it didn't."

I'm really no fan of Kuenssberg, but Cummings is not as big a deal as he thinks he is, and the "awful truth" about the government is a lot more mundane than you think it is.

Cummings has been feeding Kuennssberg her lines for years.

And with Bozza's support when DomCum was in flavour of the month.

[Murph7355]

Maximus Decimus Meridius said:

I think Cummings was pretty clear. He says change is needed to the political system. I agree with him 100% there.

What you have currently is an elite boys/ girls club who are only interested in helping themselves and their friends. Cummings says lots of them are incompetent and unfit for office. He is also scathing of Whitehall in general.

If there was a message to be taken away from the interview it is that.
The rest is all noise.

It's hard to disagree with Cummings on that particular point, and he was in as a disruptor as I saw it. He evidently became too disruptive, unfortunately...so quite evidently not as clever as he thinks he is.

The problem is how do we (the electorate) go about changing what we have and from which end? And is it the people in Government who are the most problematic, or those in government? I suspect the latter as we've had dross governing for a long time...but then the former need to be more savvy about instigating change rather than the evident bull in a china shop method.

What I've continued to struggle with over the last 18mths is why the communications are so poor. Are the general public really stupid enough to get bent out of shape about, for example, the alleged "80 yr olds" comment? So incapable of understanding and accepting context?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Maximus Decimus Meridius said:

I think Cummings was pretty clear. He says change is needed to the political system. I agree with him 100% there.

What you have currently is an elite boys/ girls club who are only interested in helping themselves and their friends. Cummings says lots of them are incompetent and unfit for office. He is also scathing of Whitehall in general.

If there was a message to be taken away from the interview it is that.
The rest is all noise.

But change it to what? He was basically an unelected lying scumbag who wielded far too much power. So much so that he was having serious conversations with others of his ilk to remove from power an elected lying scumbag. I'm not sold on that being a change for the better.

[Maximus Decimus Meridius]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Maximus Decimus Meridius said:

I think Cummings was pretty clear. He says change is needed to the political system. I agree with him 100% there.

What you have currently is an elite boys/ girls club who are only interested in helping themselves and their friends. Cummings says lots of them are incompetent and unfit for office. He is also scathing of Whitehall in general.

If there was a message to be taken away from the interview it is that.
The rest is all noise.

But change it to what? He was basically an unelected lying scumbag who wielded far too much power. So much so that he was having serious conversations with others of his ilk to remove from power an elected lying scumbag. I'm not sold on that being a change for the better.

I don't think Cummings was advocating a dictatorship with him in charge. Rather politicians who work for the electorate and do what the populous want.
What we appear to have now are incompetent "morons" whose only aim is to climb the greasy pole within their parties and get whatever they can out of the system/ their position.
Johnson is particularly brazen. There are many more like him. The list of dodgy deals and dubious appointments is long. Very long.

[cuprabob]

I think he's just on the wind up...
Laura K was struggling to hide how much she hates him in that interview.

[CoolHands]

biggbn said:

Maximus Decimus Meridius said:

I think Cummings was pretty clear. He says change is needed to the political system. I agree with him 100% there.

What you have currently is an elite boys/ girls club who are only interested in helping themselves and their friends. Cummings says lots of them are incompetent and unfit for office. He is also scathing of Whitehall in general.

If there was a message to be taken away from the interview it is that.
The rest is all noise.

100% agreed.

We can all criticise like that, it’s hardly a revelation. He is one of the elite and basically he should shut his trap & fk off. He’s just a massive prick who thinks himself great.

[biggbn]

I think many overlook the fact rhat the Tory party was just a convenient Trojan horse for Cummings who has a genuine dislike of the way our Government and civil service is run and runs things in turn. He is an apolitical intellectual anarchist who should never have been trusted, buy at least he has been consistent about his agenda...yet Boris and co still put him in a position of trust and responsibility. One wonders whose judgement should be commented upon here? Cummings never had, and never will have any loyalty to these people, and of they believed he did, or should, they are/were delusional. His comments on 'so what if its personal' and the reality of brexit were priceless. The whole scenario always puts me in mind of this...


https://youtu.be/-P70hbHBdl0

And this, the musical version...


https://youtu.be/ULx9k2QkL94

[turbobloke]

biggbn said:

I think many overlook the fact rhat the Tory party was just a convenient Trojan horse for Cummings who has a genuine dislike of the way our Government and civil service is run and runs things in turn. He is an apolitical intellectual anarchist who should never have been trusted, buy at least he has been consistent about his agenda...yet Boris and co still put him in a position of trust and responsibility. One wonders whose judgement should be commented upon here?

Yes indeed, good point.

[APontus]

biggbn said:

I think many overlook the fact rhat the Tory party was just a convenient Trojan horse for Cummings

Absolutely this. Cummings doesn't try to hide it. He has no political ideology.

We (Tory voters greedy for success) were all hoodwinked.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Maximus Decimus Meridius said:

I don't think Cummings was advocating a dictatorship with him in charge. Rather politicians who work for the electorate and do what the populous want.

Christ, the last thing we should be doing is what the populous want. The populous should get a say every 4 or 5 years in deciding who should run the country in the best way the people they decide should be running the country think it should be run. But ffs, don't ask the populous to run the country. Most of them couldn't run a bath.

We still have to put nut allergy warmings on bags of nuts, ffs. And "do not eat" warnings on rat poison. 90% of the population are so dense, they are damn lucky they get a vote at all.

[biggbn]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Maximus Decimus Meridius said:

I don't think Cummings was advocating a dictatorship with him in charge. Rather politicians who work for the electorate and do what the populous want.

Christ, the last thing we should be doing is what the populous want. The populous should get a say every 4 or 5 years in deciding who should run the country in the best way the people they decide should be running the country think it should be run. But ffs, don't ask the populous to run the country. Most of them couldn't run a bath.

We still have to put nut allergy warmings on bags of nuts, ffs. And "do not eat" warnings on rat poison. 90% of the population are so dense, they are damn lucky they get a vote at all.

I'm sure Churchill quipped the best argument against democracy is to spend 15 minutes in the company of a member of the public...and if he didn't he should have....

[Tuna]

biggbn said:

I think many overlook the fact rhat the Tory party was just a convenient Trojan horse for Cummings who has a genuine dislike of the way our Government and civil service is run and runs things in turn.

Remember though this is in the context of Boris wanting to gut half of the Tory party, both the ERG and the home counties Remainers. After nearly five years of stasis, Cummings wasn't the only one who wanted to rip things up.

..and I don't think Cummings dislike of the archaic traditionalism of the Civil Service is entirely misplaced.

We had a government so completely mired in inertia that the country had almost ground to a halt. It would have been interesting not to have everything derailed by covid. I don't think Cummings had the goal of disabling government. Reading his blog, he's more interested in modern management techniques, the use of evidence based policy decisions and high-performance teams. That's not anarchist, it's just not traditionalist either.

[biggbn]

Tuna said:

biggbn said:

I think many overlook the fact rhat the Tory party was just a convenient Trojan horse for Cummings who has a genuine dislike of the way our Government and civil service is run and runs things in turn.

Remember though this is in the context of Boris wanting to gut half of the Tory party, both the ERG and the home counties Remainers. After nearly five years of stasis, Cummings wasn't the only one who wanted to rip things up.

..and I don't think Cummings dislike of the archaic traditionalism of the Civil Service is entirely misplaced.

We had a government so completely mired in inertia that the country had almost ground to a halt. It would have been interesting not to have everything derailed by covid. I don't think Cummings had the goal of disabling government. Reading his blog, he's more interested in modern management techniques, the use of evidence based policy decisions and high-performance teams. That's not anarchist, it's just not traditionalist either.

I have consistently been a fan of Cummings' destabilising influence, I like the fact he appears to be an anarchist maverick and has no pretence about his disregard for personal relationships...an honest dishonesty, what an anomalous situation, but perhaps a necessary trait for one with his stated agenda. Boris' wish to 'gut' the party was and remains for purely personal reasons, to shore up his fiefdom, and I give credit to Dom for sailing under that brief flag of convenience as a stepping stone to his final, unattainable ideal! I doubt many other leaders could have been so successfully persuaded with a little bit of honey in their ears. The stars certainly aligned, and I'm pretty sure I know who was Batman and who was Robin!!

Edited by biggbn on Wednesday 21st July 23:39

[Murph7355]

biggbn said:

I have consistently been a fan of Cummings' destabilising influence, I like the fact he appears to be an anarchist maverick and has no pretence about his disregard for personal relationships...an honest dishonesty, what an anomalous situation, but perhaps a necessary trait for one with his stated agenda. Boris' wish to 'gut' the party was and remains for purely personal reasons, to shore up his fiefdom, and I give credit to Dom for sailing under that brief flag of convenience as a stepping stone to his final, unattainable ideal! I doubt many other leaders could have been so successfully persuaded with a little bit of honey in their ears. The stars certainly aligned, and I'm pretty sure I know who was Batman and who was Robin!!

Edited by biggbn on Wednesday 21st July 23:39

He hasn't actually changed anything yet though. And quite likely won't.

[skwdenyer]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Maximus Decimus Meridius said:

I think Cummings was pretty clear. He says change is needed to the political system. I agree with him 100% there.

What you have currently is an elite boys/ girls club who are only interested in helping themselves and their friends. Cummings says lots of them are incompetent and unfit for office. He is also scathing of Whitehall in general.

If there was a message to be taken away from the interview it is that.
The rest is all noise.

But change it to what? He was basically an unelected lying scumbag who wielded far too much power. So much so that he was having serious conversations with others of his ilk to remove from power an elected lying scumbag. I'm not sold on that being a change for the better.

The sort of change we need starts, IMO, with a written constitution, immutable except by supermajority in referendum, with a constitutional court to back it up. The current setup - wherein the Government of the day can do what it pleases - is untenable.

There must be absolute rights and responsibilities that cannot be overridden on a whim. Politicians cannot and must not be immune to the rule of a law higher than their latest desires, and parliament cannot be infinitely sovereign (since parliament is essentially captive to the executive at the moment).

Proper powers for the Speaker to hold people to account.

An elected second chamber would be good. PR, for certain (for one chamber, at least). A division of powers between executive and legislature, to try to strip away some of the greasy pole. Subpoena and contempt powers for select committees.

A series of constitutional conventions, as it were, to help define the new parameters - the recent Irish experience has been good on this front.

Root and branch reform of the civil service is clearly overdue. Again, there must be a robust framework to define the purpose and objectives and metrics, and equally-robust mechanisms to hold them to account.

These are just the basics. There is so much to do. How it should be achieved, however, is another matter. And I'm quite sure that Cummings would prefer considerably less democracy than I'm proposing.