Balanced Question Time panel tonight - of course not!
Discussion
LastLight said:
Funkycoldribena said:
LastLight said:
Oh fook, that publicity hound Chakrabarti with more conspiracy bollix about (so called 'snooper's charter'. So lacking in genuine argument that she now has to rely on the danger from hackers and fraudsters.
Should go down well on PH given how many 'state is out to get us' conspiracy mongers get so hot under the cover about the govt. - in a long standing parliamentary democracy - wanting modern tools to protect citizens from (real) modern threats post alarmist clap trap.
I can see why it's not a worry for you,we can't decipher the sShould go down well on PH given how many 'state is out to get us' conspiracy mongers get so hot under the cover about the govt. - in a long standing parliamentary democracy - wanting modern tools to protect citizens from (real) modern threats post alarmist clap trap.
te you write let alone the govt.I wonder what others think of your use of "we"? Lumping them in with your lack of comprehension skills is a bit rude...
LastLight said:
Is that a comment on the quality of writing from someone who posted this?
"In my ACTIVA.....no one to wave at.....not seen another one for years now (only 30.taxed on the road) smile
In the C5x7......no
In the AH3000....we stop and have a coffee smile"
In that case, I stand corrected.
And I was so obviously trying to write in sentences to make a grammatical point."In my ACTIVA.....no one to wave at.....not seen another one for years now (only 30.taxed on the road) smile
In the C5x7......no
In the AH3000....we stop and have a coffee smile"
In that case, I stand corrected.
crankedup said:
LastLight said:
crankedup said:
Thorodin said:
Rees-Mogg is seen as ultra posh, for his diction and dress. The intellect is off-putting to the masses because it's scary to them. His ability to make his point accurately is misunderstood as arrogance. All these make him the most suitable 'leader', if only the resentment of lesser beings could be curbed. He's also very funny when he chooses to be; that too can be disconcerting. Now, if the others had his manners...
If only every person could afford such an education?
My Grandson will be starting his private education in a couple of years time, I fully expect to be offering a helping hand with the fees. If only everyone could afford his education, its long since proven that money buys a far better education if the student wishes to be educated of course.
Thorodin said:
crankedup said:
LastLight said:
crankedup said:
Thorodin said:
Rees-Mogg is seen as ultra posh, for his diction and dress. The intellect is off-putting to the masses because it's scary to them. His ability to make his point accurately is misunderstood as arrogance. All these make him the most suitable 'leader', if only the resentment of lesser beings could be curbed. He's also very funny when he chooses to be; that too can be disconcerting. Now, if the others had his manners...
If only every person could afford such an education?My Grandson will be starting his private education in a couple of years time, I fully expect to be offering a helping hand with the fees. If only everyone could afford his education, its long since proven that money buys a far better education if the student wishes to be educated of course.
I agree with your original comments regarding Rees-Mogg, a few years back I thought he was a pompous arrogant posh boy. However, that was me typecasting the guy, and it reinforces your earlier comments regarding this situation of 'posh boy' speak. Now that I have listened to what he has to say he is a man of intellect which he uses to good effect. I may not agree with all that he has to say, politically, but I do respect him for the reasons outlined earlier by yourself and some others.
Getting onto the 'education for all', imo it is wasteful for genuine talent to be lost owing to a lack of funding for education. The U.K. loses as well as the individual of course. Unfortunately in an effort to bring higher education to the 'masses' (horrible term) we have a glut of young people holding degrees to such an extent that it makes some degrees simply another bit of paper (degree in nail polishing.)
Bringing in a system that recognises genuine talent that can be nurtured is the key of course. But it seems to elude our Governments decade after decade. Being born with a plastic spoon in my mouth, never a truer more accurate assessment of class in the U.K. We lose heaven knows how much talent through lack of funding, equal opportunities is still something to strive for imo.
All agreed. The huge increase in Uni take-ups under Blair, I think, was entirely a ruse to get people off the unemployment register. Three quarters of those 'degrees' I'm afraid to say are worthless, irrespective of the subjects or 'disciplines' (that's a joke). I feel sorry for the unfortunate victims (the students), most of whom worked so hard - and, incidentally, incurred massive debt before their careers even begin.
Thorodin said:
All agreed. The huge increase in Uni take-ups under Blair, I think, was entirely a ruse to get people off the unemployment register. Three quarters of those 'degrees' I'm afraid to say are worthless, irrespective of the subjects or 'disciplines' (that's a joke). I feel sorry for the unfortunate victims (the students), most of whom worked so hard - and, incidentally, incurred massive debt before their careers even begin.
What nobody (due to their "we are a university" attitude) told the students, is that business knows exactly which degrees are worth it and from which universities.This has resulted it load shouts of "but I have a degree" and the resulting (often) disappointment when a Polish/French/Spanish graduate takes the job. One who can speak, write and type English better, can apply modern mathematics and has a generous design flair for working for a living.
I feel sorry for them really.
I recall our lad attending a 'careers evening' just prior to his leaving school. He wanted to be a motor mechanic at the time and naturally headed for the local Ford dealership stand. Upon him having a conversation with the guys manning the stand he was told 'sorry you haven't got 'so and so' qualification. Our lads jaw dropped into his knees! I intervened at this point and although furious at the way they had treated the lad (16 year old) I maintained an polite but concise explanation regarding the qualities, excluding the 'bit of paper' the lad offers. He can strip out and down any engine and methodically put it all back together, and it will start and run as intended by manufacturer. To this day I find it incredulous that such a talent for this type of work should have been discarded without a second thought, because of a lack of formal qualification. The day apprenticeships were abandoned in favour of academic qualification was a massive step back imo. It can only happen here in the U.K. perhaps.
Since then our lad has forged out a career as a maintenance electrical engineer (qualified) and works for a Royal Prince (not U.K.) I am not permitted to expand on this unfortunately.
Since then our lad has forged out a career as a maintenance electrical engineer (qualified) and works for a Royal Prince (not U.K.) I am not permitted to expand on this unfortunately.
crankedup said:
... The day apprenticeships were abandoned in favour of academic qualification was a massive step back imo.
Indeed, why on Earth Blair decided 50% of pupils should go to University I have no idea. He set expectations and in so doing ruined the on going training for many kids who would have been suited an apprentice or technical college. Why not 37.5% or 57.2% bizarrecrankedup said:
.... The day apprenticeships were abandoned in favour of academic qualification was a massive step back imo. It can only happen here in the U.K. perhaps.
Since then our lad has forged out a career as a maintenance electrical engineer (qualified) and works for a Royal Prince (not U.K.) I am not permitted to expand on this unfortunately.
Agreed. My working life started with a formal apprenticeship with a major industrial employer - as an Instrument Maker. 5 years including extensive part-time study and Indentures to be obtained at the end with a more or less a guaranteed job - it was seen as the company taking care of its own future. Now, the term 'apprentice' has morphed into meaning entirely something different.Since then our lad has forged out a career as a maintenance electrical engineer (qualified) and works for a Royal Prince (not U.K.) I am not permitted to expand on this unfortunately.
crankedup said:
I recall our lad attending a 'careers evening' just prior to his leaving school. He wanted to be a motor mechanic at the time and naturally headed for the local Ford dealership stand. Upon him having a conversation with the guys manning the stand he was told 'sorry you haven't got 'so and so' qualification. Our lads jaw dropped into his knees! I intervened at this point and although furious at the way they had treated the lad (16 year old) I maintained an polite but concise explanation regarding the qualities, excluding the 'bit of paper' the lad offers. He can strip out and down any engine and methodically put it all back together, and it will start and run as intended by manufacturer. To this day I find it incredulous that such a talent for this type of work should have been discarded without a second thought, because of a lack of formal qualification. The day apprenticeships were abandoned in favour of academic qualification was a massive step back imo. It can only happen here in the U.K. perhaps.
Since then our lad has forged out a career as a maintenance electrical engineer (qualified) and works for a Royal Prince (not U.K.) I am not permitted to expand on this unfortunately.
We're in the process of setting on a couple of apprentices and I'm getting increasingly annoyed with parents getting involved in the process, it's not the parent who's applying for the apprenticeship. It reflects badly on the candidate when their mum or dad makes all the arrangements, and I most definitely don't welcome having to explain to a parent why their little darling didn't get the job.Since then our lad has forged out a career as a maintenance electrical engineer (qualified) and works for a Royal Prince (not U.K.) I am not permitted to expand on this unfortunately.
As for qualifications, it's not difficult to get a handful of GCSEs (it's hard not to get at least a C in most subjects), the absence of any academic qualifications suggests that the candidate is either, really, really dumb, can't take instruction, or has shown a complete disregard for the educational process.
It's not the qualification that's important, more the fact that the candidate had the ability to get it in the first place, I'd be much more impressed with a candidate who had a decent set of GCSEs but decided that they wanted a practical job rather than going on to University.
RYH64E said:
crankedup said:
I recall our lad attending a 'careers evening' just prior to his leaving school. He wanted to be a motor mechanic at the time and naturally headed for the local Ford dealership stand. Upon him having a conversation with the guys manning the stand he was told 'sorry you haven't got 'so and so' qualification. Our lads jaw dropped into his knees! I intervened at this point and although furious at the way they had treated the lad (16 year old) I maintained an polite but concise explanation regarding the qualities, excluding the 'bit of paper' the lad offers. He can strip out and down any engine and methodically put it all back together, and it will start and run as intended by manufacturer. To this day I find it incredulous that such a talent for this type of work should have been discarded without a second thought, because of a lack of formal qualification. The day apprenticeships were abandoned in favour of academic qualification was a massive step back imo. It can only happen here in the U.K. perhaps.
Since then our lad has forged out a career as a maintenance electrical engineer (qualified) and works for a Royal Prince (not U.K.) I am not permitted to expand on this unfortunately.
We're in the process of setting on a couple of apprentices and I'm getting increasingly annoyed with parents getting involved in the process, it's not the parent who's applying for the apprenticeship. It reflects badly on the candidate when their mum or dad makes all the arrangements, and I most definitely don't welcome having to explain to a parent why their little darling didn't get the job.Since then our lad has forged out a career as a maintenance electrical engineer (qualified) and works for a Royal Prince (not U.K.) I am not permitted to expand on this unfortunately.
As for qualifications, it's not difficult to get a handful of GCSEs (it's hard not to get at least a C in most subjects), the absence of any academic qualifications suggests that the candidate is either, really, really dumb, can't take instruction, or has shown a complete disregard for the educational process.
It's not the qualification that's important, more the fact that the candidate had the ability to get it in the first place, I'd be much more impressed with a candidate who had a decent set of GCSEs but decided that they wanted a practical job rather than going on to University.
Parents should be behind their kids when they are seeking their first employment opportunity. I say this for the simple reason that their is always businesses out there that would love to take advantage of young 'greenhorns'. How would these young people know what are the right questions to ask and interpret some of the T&C on offer? Sometimes intervention is required. And its a perfectly natural mechanism for a caring parent to be involved, level of involvement could be an issue I suspect.I am not suggesting for a moment that you or your Company fall into this lower grade of employer.
Many a top entrepreneur has evolved from the no qualification barrow boy into a glittering head of Company. That is another reason I do not hold full weighting to paper qualification. But I do agree that candidates with papers AND practical skills will outshine those without one or either at an interview.
crankedup said:
How old are your applicants?
Parents should be behind their kids when they are seeking their first employment opportunity. I say this for the simple reason that their is always businesses out there that would love to take advantage of young 'greenhorns'. How would these young people know what are the right questions to ask and interpret some of the T&C on offer? Sometimes intervention is required. And its a perfectly natural mechanism for a caring parent to be involved, level of involvement could be an issue I suspect.I am not suggesting for a moment that you or your Company fall into this lower grade of employer.
Many a top entrepreneur has evolved from the no qualification barrow boy into a glittering head of Company. That is another reason I do not hold full weighting to paper qualification. But I do agree that candidates with papers AND practical skills will outshine those without one or either at an interview.
Apprentices get a lot of support from the College, workplace rights and employer duties are part of what they're taught, and there's no shortage of counsellors available to help if needed. The last thing an employer wants is interference from a 'caring parent', it's a workplace not a school and apprentices are young adults not children. Think Pike's mum in Dad's Army, it's really not appropriate and doesn't reflect well on the apprentice.Parents should be behind their kids when they are seeking their first employment opportunity. I say this for the simple reason that their is always businesses out there that would love to take advantage of young 'greenhorns'. How would these young people know what are the right questions to ask and interpret some of the T&C on offer? Sometimes intervention is required. And its a perfectly natural mechanism for a caring parent to be involved, level of involvement could be an issue I suspect.I am not suggesting for a moment that you or your Company fall into this lower grade of employer.
Many a top entrepreneur has evolved from the no qualification barrow boy into a glittering head of Company. That is another reason I do not hold full weighting to paper qualification. But I do agree that candidates with papers AND practical skills will outshine those without one or either at an interview.
As for paper qualifications, they're not hard to get. If an applicant doesn't have any there will be a reason why not, most likely they don't have the ability to study to the required level, or they've ignored everything they've been taught. Neither quality is valued in the workplace, and an assurance from their dad (hardly unbiassed) that they can rebuild engines isn't likely to be particularly reassuring.
When you say 'many a top entrepeneur', you probably mean 'a few entrepeneurs', most successful people are highly intelligent and usually well qualified, though there will of course be the odd exception. It's very rare for an intelligent person not to pick up a few paper qualifications along the way, even if they leave school at the first opportunity, it's not at all rare for an unintelligent person to leave school with nothing. If you're an employer it's not unreasonable to conclude that a candidate with no qualifications is either thick or lazy, most often both.
Edited by RYH64E on Saturday 7th November 17:48
Intelligence does not equate to a qualification. After a lifetime spent in 'bringing on' beginners/learners/improvers both for employers and in my own business, I can vouch that if one's major consideration is a paper qualification then a considerable waste has taken place. I'm fortunate in that I never encountered a company like yours. Most of my opportunities have been among people that saw the potential rather than the fluke of favourable exam results. However, what counts is what works!
Thorodin said:
Intelligence does not equate to a qualification. After a lifetime spent in 'bringing on' beginners/learners/improvers both for employers and in my own business, I can vouch that if one's major consideration is a paper qualification then a considerable waste has taken place. I'm fortunate in that I never encountered a company like yours. Most of my opportunities have been among people that saw the potential rather than the fluke of favourable exam results. However, what counts is what works!
Its certainly interesting that 25 years ago to become an apprentice motor mechanic paperwork was more important than practical skills. Ironic really considering the 'bolt-on' technical skill required for modern cars. Seeing the increase year on year in the straight 'A's qualification and virtually every student gaining at least 'B's it must be a headache for prospective employers to sort out who may be most suited to a apprenticeship.It comes back to the point I was making regards practical skills and academia. Far to much emphasis was placed on academia over practical skills imo.
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